eggz Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 Hi Folks, Need some help. I can't decide on whether at this time to get a Denon 3930ci or a Vantage HD. Here's my setup: Sony Ruby + IscanHD fed via SDI from a Denon 2200 and/or Oppo 971. I use the Oppo mainly for Divx. I don't watch anything else on the Ruby, only DVDs and Divx. my main gripe with this setup is that with the Ruby and it's very revealing picture, my older DVDs look crap without noise reduction. Therefore I'm thinking of getting something that has SiOp HQV with noise reduction to remove the hazyness, noisy stuff from older DVDs. Hence either a Denon 3930ci or a VantangeHD. My plan is to get a PS3 and/or HD-DVD player for Highdef DVD playback, but both will have to support 1080p (might get the new 1080p toshiba HD-DVD). So I won't really need a 1080i to 1080p processor. Only reason to get the VantageHD is possibly for eventual HDTV broadcast which is likely to be in 1080i, but no idea when this is going to happend. So folks what would you suggest? The VantageHD is quite a bit more than the 3930ci price wise, with SDI option the VHD is over $5K? Get the 3930ci now, wait till HDTV comes then look again at video processor options? or jump in for a VantageHD right now? I can't think of what other advantage to get the VantageHD over a 3930ci just for DVDs.....maybe for 48Hz framerate? but someone over at AVSforum says the VantageHD doesn't do 48Hz into the Ruby's DVI port.
Jason Yeo Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 If just for DVD , buy 3930 is good enough . If further use for 1080i contents, buy vantageHD . Since you have the iscan already , then just go for a Denon 3930 . VantageHD NR is better than 5910 . Don't know how is the new 3930 , though . However , if you watch friendly DVDs and your oppo + Denon 2200 handle wells , then buy vantageHD . ;D
c7221624705751 Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 Why dun you skip all these Realta stuff and go straight to Mosquito ? It should be much better in terms of NR isn't it ? And it's "cheaper" than a VHD. (since your only purpose is for NR) And not only it does DVD, it does NR on HD also. (Current Realta has limited NR function in HD)
eggz Posted November 2, 2006 Author Posted November 2, 2006 Why dun you skip all these Realta stuff and go straight to Mosquito ? It should be much better in terms of NR isn't it ? And it's "cheaper" than a VHD. (since your only purpose is for NR) And not only it does DVD, it does NR on HD also. (Current Realta has limited NR function in HD) I was also hoping that with the Realta stuff, there will be a general improvement in the picture from DVDs compared to my current IscanHD<--SDI<--DVD player setup. I think the HQV Realta also offers some detail enchancements etc rite? The other thing about the Mosquito is that it's not that cheap and somewhat hard to get since Algolith don't have a dealer here rite? Do you know of anyone in Singapore or Xtremeplace using a Mosquito? If money was no object (how I wish), I guess a good setup will be Iscan VP50 (great deinterlacing at 1080i for HDTV in the future) + Mosquito....
Audio Posted November 2, 2006 Posted November 2, 2006 If I were you, I would not buy any....... Just get the Toshiba HD-A1 or the 2nd generation Toshiba now at just over US$400 or higher respectively and enjoy HD-DVD and upscaled 1080i DVDs. (Audio)
eggz Posted November 2, 2006 Author Posted November 2, 2006 If I were you, I would not buy any....... Just get the Toshiba HD-A1 or the 2nd generation Toshiba now at just over US$400 or higher respectively and enjoy HD-DVD and upscaled 1080i DVDs. (Audio) Audio, I plan to get a HD-DVD player soon, probably the Tosh, but I read that these don't do so well with regular DVDs, not even as good as the Realta DVD players. The Ruby isn't great at 1080i deinterlacing, so I'm hoping to get a 1080p one. So the thing is this, the mosquito is better than the Realta at NR for HD, but is it significantly better than the Realta at SD i.e. DVDs? Hmmm seems like the mosquito is not a bad long term invesment if it has superior NR for both HD and SD sources. It will be useful for a long time. Getting one now can benefi SD material, when HDTV comes along, just get a not too expensive 1080i deinterlacer (hopefully a cheaper version of VP50 will be out by then) and mosquito will still provide for good NR on HDTV. I think NR will probably not be necessary with good quality HD-DVD and BR material, but will be required for HDTV broadcasts, at least based on what folks at avsforum are saying.... c722, good point man....ok now how much is that MosquitoHDMI?
htfreak Posted November 2, 2006 Posted November 2, 2006 Audio, I plan to get a HD-DVD player soon, probably the Tosh, but I read that these don't do so well with regular DVDs, not even as good as the Realta DVD players. The Ruby isn't great at 1080i deinterlacing, so I'm hoping to get a 1080p one. So the thing is this, the mosquito is better than the Realta at NR for HD, but is it significantly better than the Realta at SD i.e. DVDs? Hmmm seems like the mosquito is not a bad long term invesment if it has superior NR for both HD and SD sources. It will be useful for a long time. Getting one now can benefi SD material, when HDTV comes along, just get a not too expensive 1080i deinterlacer (hopefully a cheaper version of VP50 will be out by then) and mosquito will still provide for good NR on HDTV. I think NR will probably not be necessary with good quality HD-DVD and BR material, but will be required for HDTV broadcasts, at least based on what folks at avsforum are saying.... c722, good point man....ok now how much is that MosquitoHDMI? I second what Audio and c722 has mentioned. It's pointless to spend so much dough to get a DVD player right now. With HD disc formats, most of the issues that you face with regular DVD's are a thing of the past. It'll probably be better to invest in a external scaler or NR device to handle broadcast highdef signals better which is almost a guarantee to debut before the year is out. HD disc detractors will probably lament that you can't get much titles on HD format right now which I would agree with them 3 months ago. However, the battle between both formats is starting to reach boiling point with each format releasing more and more A-list titles that most working professionals would hardly have enough time to watch all available HD releases anyway. IMO, the key excuse that most people tend to use to avoid going into HD now are more related to the continued buying of cheap pirated discs than anything else which is typical of the Singapore mentality of owning luxury cars and homes but maintaining a kiasu attitude when there are freebies to be gotten.
Jason Yeo Posted November 2, 2006 Posted November 2, 2006 Audio, I plan to get a HD-DVD player soon, probably the Tosh, but I read that these don't do so well with regular DVDs, not even as good as the Realta DVD players. The Ruby isn't great at 1080i deinterlacing, so I'm hoping to get a 1080p one. So the thing is this, the mosquito is better than the Realta at NR for HD, but is it significantly better than the Realta at SD i.e. DVDs? Hmmm seems like the mosquito is not a bad long term invesment if it has superior NR for both HD and SD sources. It will be useful for a long time. Getting one now can benefi SD material, when HDTV comes along, just get a not too expensive 1080i deinterlacer (hopefully a cheaper version of VP50 will be out by then) and mosquito will still provide for good NR on HDTV. I think NR will probably not be necessary with good quality HD-DVD and BR material, but will be required for HDTV broadcasts, at least based on what folks at avsforum are saying.... c722, good point man....ok now how much is that MosquitoHDMI? When 2nd gen Toshiba top model is out, you may not need deinterlacing 1080i anymore except S'pore HDTV ??? The hdmi mosquito must be better than realta NR since this is their main trade .(www.algolith.com). By judging the analog mosquito http://shop.algolith.com/home.php , the hdmi mosquito should be more expensive ....... If you have tons of DVD collections and still like to watch DVDs like me , it is still worth to buy the 3930 . The HQV realta can perform miracle .
c7221624705751 Posted November 2, 2006 Posted November 2, 2006 I think the HQV Realta also offers some detail enchancements etc rite? Mosquito also got detail enhancement one! :) Seriously Mosquito is really the niche product from Algolith. Realta and Algolith licenses each other NR technologies. But generally Mosquito is perceived to be better. For HD broadcast you have to use the Mosquito because the Realta's mpeg noise NR only works in SD. But then on the other hand this product is so "rare" even in avs you find very little info. The last I read it has HDMI troubles with a Ruby. Also the effectiveness of NR is so subjective. Many ppl deem this as too expensive for what it does. (btw MSRP is US$2500 I think) Jeff: even in HD-DVD there is still noise. Jason Yeo shows me the Last Samurai scene where the noise is obvious. But I guess it depends on the transfer..
htfreak Posted November 2, 2006 Posted November 2, 2006 I know. That's why I said most problems, not all have been eliminated. ;D
muscular27 Posted November 3, 2006 Posted November 3, 2006 I do not understand why ppl will recommend "rare" products which not many persons in this forum have even lay their eyes on, let alone own one and able to give their experience on tat product. And the cost of it just does not justify buying it unless one is a paranoid videophile seeking for perfection. Eggz my man, if I'm in your position now, I'll just settle for a 2930 and use the balance for a blu-ray/ps3/hd-dvd player. I guess you are looking for a practical and affordable solution. You can always come visit Audio or my place to see the hd dvd with a ruby so tat you can judge for yourself whether you need a noise reduction hardware when viewing high def. And yes, hd dvds still have video noise albeit reduced significantly until you may not even need an algolith unless again, you are a paranoid videophile. As c722 mentioned, it depends on the transfer..
oliverlim Posted November 3, 2006 Posted November 3, 2006 I have been telling quite a number of folks that I think spending 1K on the HD-DVD player makes more sense then 1K on a 2930. Yes a 2930 will probably give you a slightly picture. But the HD-DVD player will allow you to play HD DVDs. During the next year or so, I see most movies being released either on HD-DVD or BluRay. The Scaler on the Toshiba HD player is also fantastic. Its deinterlacing is also not bad. The 720p output however is not that great. And most 720P projectors deinterlace 1080i very poorly. The Ruby and Optoma HD81 and Marantz S11 being 1080p projector does 1080i deinterlacing correctly. So provides the full resolution. Most 720p projectors will only provide close to 540p like resolution from HD player. But it is still good compared to a SD DVD. The other question is NR that important with the increased resolution? In fact most transfer these days is arleady very good. Some are noisy is due to choice of the director decision. Directors like Steven Spelberg always like file grain to their shows. I see NR as being less important in HD then in SD. I know that HD DVDs are still rather expensive. And most will still buy friendly DVDs or rent disc. If you see this as what you will be doing for at least one or more years. then maybe spend the 1K on a 2930 or 3930. If you are considering a Vantage, do know that you can get a 2930 + HD-DVD + BluRay and still have some spare for HD and Bluray titles. Or a 2930 + 2K plus to a new 1080p projector. Of course a Vantage can help the PQ of a SCV HD source or SD source. Choices choices choices. Isnt what makes this this hobby that fun? :p Oliver
c7221624705751 Posted November 4, 2006 Posted November 4, 2006 oliver what r u doing at 2AM ? :) Looking at the posters in this thread, I can safely conclude all of them (or us) will get/already have a HD-DVD player very quickly. Some will soon have a BluRay player as well ;). So it's a given. Now the OP is looking beyond that, because of upgraditis I'm sure :) I certainly agree the worst transferred HD-DVD still looks better than most DVDs. So NR is really like an investment for the additional maybe 5% improvement ? And it's also for the upcoming HD broadcast here, although I'm sure the worst HD broadcast material still looks miles better than now. It's like audio gears, is that dedicated DAC a worthwhile investment ? Mosquito type of gear does look like a long term investment. (btw I just realized it can't do NR on 1080p, max 1080i only. Another concern). Honestly I also considered the HDMI Mosquito a while ago (since it also dubs as a 4:1 HDMI switcher and 2 components transcoder) , after seeing the new VP30's ABT card introduces more noise in SD TV. But with the announcement of the new Lumagen scaler everything changed again. But in any case, 1k plus for a DVD player at this time and date IMHO is really not an optimal investment, especially for a videophile like you.
oliverlim Posted November 4, 2006 Posted November 4, 2006 Just got back from helping a forumer calibrate his HT system and some supper :p I still think that if someone is using one of the old DVD player, they can still get a lot of milage from a 2930 player. I think many of us will still be watching alot of DVDs. At least till all titles are released on HD DVD or Bluray. And they drop in price. Of course if they intend to plan for the future, and watch lots of sports or TV, then it does make some sense to invest in a Vantage. I have not had the chance to look at the VP50 yet. But That also might be another option. Or just get a Mit5K and a 4:1 HDMi switchbox and enjoy using the Reon on the projector! :p Oliver
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