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Can anyone please point me to a thread here where the necessity of the high end speaker cable has either been debunked, or proven?

I am about to install an Orb speaker selector to hook up one amp, to 3 sets of speakers, and dont really want to have high end cable for all 4 sets of runs I need to do.. but, hey if i see some good info to tell me getting something better than regular 18 gauge wire  is necessary i'll go for it..

 

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I’m going to invent a bananaspade.  That will stop the debate 🤣🤣

And if you want good cables without spending a lot, maybe talk to Bill, who makes Bill's Cables, a member and sponsor here.

You have hit it on the head. No use trying to improve a system with cables, when the system isn’t good enough to hear the difference. If you have a good enough system, you will hear the difference.  T

Might help if you tell folks what the rest of your system is, and what cabling you use now.

 

For my part I'd say once a system reaches a certain level speaker and interconnect cables make a difference in audible sound. I made a pair of interconnects recently using a combination of a silver and gold blend wire and silver wire, they made a very audible change from the copper ribbon ones that were being used. (for me a positive one) My speaker cables are Lenahan Ribbon ones.

 

But there are plenty that will say cables make little difference, and a handful that even say no difference.

 

The only real way to confirm what is right or wrong for you, is to try different cables, see if you can borrow some different speaker cables from other members or some loaners from a hifi store.

 

Just reading stuff will likely only leave you to follow a conclusion that you already lean towards now.

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And if you want good cables without spending a lot, maybe talk to Bill, who makes Bill's Cables, a member and sponsor here.

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2 hours ago, oldbrowndog said:

Can anyone please point me to a thread here where the necessity of the high end speaker cable has either been debunked, or proven?

I am about to install an Orb speaker selector to hook up one amp, to 3 sets of speakers, and dont really want to have high end cable for all 4 sets of runs I need to do.. but, hey if i see some good info to tell me getting something better than regular 18 gauge wire  is necessary i'll go for it..

 

The "debunked or proven" thread does not exist.  Threads that try to debunk or prove such things tend to be hotly debated and rarely never really end in consensus.  That's just the way it is.

 

Expensive speaker wire is only really justified when measured against the value of the rest of your system.  And the definition of the word "expensive" also varies from person to person.

 

RG-213U wire makes good speaker cable (very low inductance which is a good thing for most amplifiers), is pretty cheap and is widely available too but it can be a bit of a bugger to terminate.  

 

18 gauge sounds a bit thin to my ears, but without more info on your amp, speakers and the length of the runs I shouldn't really be saying even that.  If you supply us with more information we could offer more detailed opinions.

Edited by Cafad
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Thanks for the feedback folks. I guess borrowing and trying with one set would be a good idea to see if i can hear a difference, and if not, stick to the regular.

I have some Technics SE 9600 /SU 9600 amps & then onto the ORB switcher & then onto various different speakers: JBL 4344 / Coral Beta 10 / JBL Lancer 2 way / Altec 604G.

anyway thats the basics, but i only have one decent set of cables, & i dont really want to buy 3 more unless it makes sense.. Will try and borrow one more set to just do from the amp to the orb & onto a set of speakers..

 

 

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I would just buy the most copper you can get for your budget- Thicker the copper the less resistance.  Try a  minimum of 14gauge. 

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And embrace the muddy blur if it is too thick.

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Personal experience;

 

Set my speakers up to the best position in the room. Lots of moving speakers, my head and chairs. Took at least a few months before I got it 100%. The improvement is phenomenal. 

 

Tried some speakers in a shop with my own amp and Blue jeans speaker cables. Once we had the speakers set up as good as we could we changed out the cables for $3000.- MIT speaker cables. Improvement 0%.

Edited by Pim
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Quote

Once we had the speakers set up as good as we could we changed out the cables for $3000.- MIT speaker cables. Improvement 0%.

Hahahah, no horsesh*t wang!

I had a feeling, but hearing it from someone who spent that much is interesting.

 

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15 hours ago, oldbrowndog said:

but, hey if i see some good info to tell me getting something better than regular 18 gauge wire  is necessary i'll go for it..

 

There is a lot of cheap rubbish.

 

Something of good manufacture like Belden 5000 or Canare StarQuad can be had for ~$5 - $10 / meter.

 

Your speakers are high efficiency designs, and so 18 AWG will be plenty, unless you are planning on summoning the police.

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10 minutes ago, muon* said:

And embrace the muddy blur if it is too thick.

Yeah those Atomic- photon-electrons will take there time reaching to the other side of the cable. You don't want to make it too easy for them . Make them work for it.

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Just now, oldbrowndog said:

Hahahah, no horsesh*t wang!

I had a feeling, but hearing it from someone who spent that much is interesting.

 

I didn't buy them. Just tried them. Now, I'm not saying speaker cables can't change the sound, for better or worse, but what I am sure of that the time spent getting my setup right is a definite improvement, the cables, none to my ears. That makes it an easy choice. To be honest I've probably spent so much time on setup that, had I just worked overtime, I would have easily been able to afford the cables.

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4 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

There is a lot of cheap rubbish.

 

Something of good manufacture like Belden 5000 or Canare StarQuad can be had for ~$5 - $10 / meter.

 

Your speakers are high efficiency designs, and so 18 AWG will be plenty, unless you are planning on summoning the police.

I think that's what mine are: Canare StarQuad. They cold welded the connectors. Not that I can hear an improvement but at least I know they won't fall off anytime soon.

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2 minutes ago, Pim said:

I didn't buy them. Just tried them. Now, I'm not saying speaker cables can't change the sound, for better or worse, but what I am sure of that the time spent getting my setup right is a definite improvement, the cables, none to my ears. That makes it an easy choice. To be honest I've probably spent so much time on setup that, had I just worked overtime, I would have easily been able to afford the cables.

Would be useful If you could introduce you system and listening environment. Very curious on cable topic. I always find different on speaker interconnect digital cables, but very resistance on the use on ethernet cable. But just got a not expensive hifi ethernet cable try on my system, difference is clearly heard. Will just another hot debated topic i guess.

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20 minutes ago, misternavi said:

Yeah those Atomic- photon-electrons will take there time reaching to the other side of the cable. You don't want to make it too easy for them . Make them work for it.

That's an odd way to look at how electrical transmission works.

 

Each to there own, I'm just working with my own personal experience after using 11awg Western Electric cable, was too thick for my system, and introduced a smearing.

Edited by muon*
typo
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Well, looks like the OP will have found his cable argument, and didn't need links 🤣

 

Also went as I predicted.

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2 minutes ago, 360Cisitalia said:

Would be useful If you could introduce you system and listening environment. Very curious on cable topic. I always find different on speaker interconnect digital cables, but very resistance on the use on ethernet cable. But just got a not expensive hifi ethernet cable try on my system, difference is clearly heard. Will just another hot debated topic i guess.

Nope. I have no interest in cables whatsoever. Not when I still have lots of improvements to get in room acoustics and better speakers.

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If it's not too impolite a question, @oldbrowndog, what kind of price range would you be comfortable to pay per metre of speaker cable? People might have some views on cable that would be applicable.

Edited by The Rock Puppy
Poorly worded.
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7 minutes ago, muon* said:

Well, looks like the OP will have found his cable argument, and didn't need links 🤣

 

Also went as I predicted.

Yeah, wouldn't you love to have a cable debate with a bunch of bikies? 

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2 minutes ago, Pim said:

Yeah, wouldn't you love to have a cable debate with a bunch of bikies? 

From my experience they prefer chains :lol:

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8 minutes ago, muon* said:

Well, looks like the OP will have found his cable argument, and didn't need links 🤣

 

Also went as I predicted.

It's always interesting to see people give a lot of claims on cables and try to persuade others without mention system component, listening environment. Some will ultimately refuse to try because based on the believe of useless of cables. Some will ignore all other factors to insist the other way and apply on every system.

And the end of the day, this debate Will never end.

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11 minutes ago, muon* said:

Well, looks like the OP will have found his cable argument, and didn't need links 🤣

 

Also went as I predicted.

 

These threads are nothing but predictable. There are those who do and those who don't and they are like parallel lines which never meet.

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2 minutes ago, The Rock Puppy said:

Ah well, @muon*, at least there wasn't a second part of the question asking what would be the best cable termination: banana vs spade vs bare wire!

I’m going to invent a bananaspade.  That will stop the debate 🤣🤣

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5 minutes ago, 360Cisitalia said:

It's always interesting to see people give a lot of claims on cables and try to persuade others without mention system component, listening environment. Some will ultimately refuse to try because based on the believe of useless of cables. Some will ignore all other factors to insist the other way and apply on every system.

And the end of the day, this debate Will never end.

Yeah, and we still don't have that information that would help the OP.

 

Edit: or budget that someone else mentions and that would offer even more help.

Edited by muon*
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1 minute ago, rantan said:

 

These threads are nothing but predictable. There are those who do and those who don't and they are like parallel lines which never meet.

I think we can all agree though that if debates like these always go haywire, the 'improvement' can't be that big. If it was, everybody would hear it. One thing in my mind is for sure; there's very little wrong with simple copper, therefore there's not much improvement to be had.

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5 minutes ago, muon* said:

Yeah, and we still don't have that information that would help the OP.

 

Edit: or budget that someone else mentions and that would offer even more help.

 

Yeah.

 

That was the other thing about this thread.

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1 hour ago, muon* said:

That's an odd way to look at how electrical transmission works.

 

Each to there own, I'm just working with my own personal experience after using 11awg Western Electric cable, was too thick for my system, and introduced a smearing.

Joking about Electron mumbo jumbo. 

 

Thicker cables = lower resistance. Makes sense.
 

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23 minutes ago, misternavi said:

Joking about Electron mumbo jumbo. 

 

Thicker cables = lower resistance. Makes sense.
 

Yes, it made sense to me too..... that lower resistance has to be better and the lower the better, until I tried it.

 

I found I was wrong in my situation.

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1 hour ago, Pim said:

Nope. I have no interest in cables whatsoever. Not when I still have lots of improvements to get in room acoustics and better speakers.

"No interest in cables", but still you had to proffer an opinion.

Edited by deepthought
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42 minutes ago, deepthought said:

"No interest in cables", but still you had to proffer an opinion.

Well, I tried them and found them to not have an impact. That's not an opinion but an experience shared.

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1 hour ago, deepthought said:

"No interest in cables", but still you had to proffer an opinion.

 

Sure... he explained that he didn't hear any difference.... and explained a type of connector/termination.

 

How is that not valid input?

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I think i got what i needed, i knew there would be some argument and i feel like the idea of trying some higher end stuff without fronting the $$ to realise it doesnt do much is the smart option.. I think i have decent enough components to warrant a try..

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3 minutes ago, oldbrowndog said:

I think i got what i needed, i knew there would be some argument and i feel like the idea of trying some higher end stuff without fronting the $$ to realise it doesnt do much is the smart option.. I think i have decent enough components to warrant a try..

You have hit it on the head. No use trying to improve a system with cables, when the system isn’t good enough to hear the difference. If you have a good enough system, you will hear the difference.  That’s from a few decades of listening to hundreds of cables. 

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3 hours ago, Pim said:

I think we can all agree though that if debates like these always go haywire, the 'improvement' can't be that big. If it was, everybody would hear it. One thing in my mind is for sure; there's very little wrong with simple copper, therefore there's not much improvement to be had.

Doesn't mean that at all.

 

That is just how you perceive it :)

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1 hour ago, Pim said:

Well, I tried them and found them to not have an impact. That's not an opinion but an experience (which I) shared.

 

Absolutely, Pim.  :thumb:  (My edit of your post in red.)

 

But of course, other folks' experiences may lead to very different results - for them!  Mine, for instance would be that RCA interconnects, also spkr cables, can make a big difference to the sound.  :thumb:  (Obviously, I must've used very different cables to what you tried.)

 

Andy

 

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20 hours ago, oldbrowndog said:

Can anyone please point me to a thread here where the necessity of the high end speaker cable has either been debunked, or proven?

 

C'mon, seriously - there is no such thread.

 

And what do you call "high end speaker cable?"

 

20 hours ago, oldbrowndog said:

I am about to install an Orb speaker selector to hook up one amp, to 3 sets of speakers, and don't really want to have high end cable for all 4 sets of runs I need to do.. but, hey if i see some good info to tell me getting something better than regular 18 gauge wire  is necessary i'll go for it..

 

If by "regular 18 gauge wire" - you mean 'figure 8' stranded cable then, yes, there certainly are better-sounding spkr cables.  Solid-core 'Litz' cables, for instance.

 

Andy

 

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