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Hi team, 

 

I'm after some cartridge advice. I'm looking for an cart (probably MC but open to ideas) that can bring a bit of warmth and bass to proceedings, since my system leans toward brightness.. It's a bit of a classic case of having acquired components without considering their compatibility. I'm running a VPI Scout 1.1 and iFi iphono3 BL, into Moon Ace. Speakers are RP600Ms. 

 

Budget is up to AU$1500. Play mostly indie, folk and blues. Have had Benz (Silver HOMC) and AT (AT33PTG/ii) in the past and really enjoyed their detail and balance. But as mentioned, it's been almost too much of a good thing. Now, I know that the cartridge is probably not the best place to try and affect this change, but I'm not looking for an overhaul in the character of my system (nor am I looking at component changes, tubes are the long-term plan), I'm just looking for a little tweak to try and offset some of the natural treble brightness. 

 

Anyway, I've got some thoughts based on what I've read here and elsewhere, but I'd love to hear what others have heard and would recommend. 

 

Cheers.  

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 @Needo22, a cart is a very good place to get a different sound.  But just be aware that any LOMC reacts to different loading values - so you need to buy a LOMC that likes the loading your phono stage offers.

 

Andy

 

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Thanks Andy. The iPhono is pretty customisable, so hopefully I can cater to a variety of loading needs.

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you don't mention your current cartridge? but for that money i would be looking at the speakers, there are many good speakers in the classifieds that would show the RP600's a clean pair of heels

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8 minutes ago, Needo22 said:

Thanks Andy. The iPhono is pretty customisable, so hopefully I can cater to a variety of loading needs.

 

As far as resistive load is concerned (for a LOMC), the info I was able to find says it offers: 33 / 100 / 330 / 1K.  Which, for instance, might be fine for the AT33PTG/ii you had ... but wouldn't have been much use for the Benz LP that I used to have - which liked 3300 ohms.

 

Andy

 

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i have had an ifi iphono 2 in my system, incredible detail, but became fatigueing after a while, was on loan from my brother, was happy to get back to my NAD, whilst this phono has been lampooned on this site, yes its not end game, but to my ears i could listen to it all day with enjoyment

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17 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

As far as resistive load is concerned (for a LOMC), the info I was able to find says it offers: 33 / 100 / 330 / 1K.  Which, for instance, might be fine for the AT33PTG/ii you had ... but wouldn't have been much use for the Benz LP that I used to have - which liked 3300 ohms.

 

Andy

 


Gotcha. Yes that’s right about the load offerings. What should I look out for in terms of cartridge specs to make sure the phono can provide sufficient load?

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16 minutes ago, wen said:

to my ears i could listen to it all day with enjoyment


Mate, that’s all that really matters!

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I used to have. Dv 10x5 and that was a fun cartridge and not overly bright either, you could try the 20x2 ?

 

the 10x5 is now mk2 model 

 

the Hana Mac range get good review 

Edited by cafe67
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9 hours ago, Needo22 said:


Gotcha. Yes that’s right about the load offerings. What should I look out for in terms of cartridge specs to make sure the iphono can provide sufficient load?

 

 

A LOMC that has a coil impedance of 10 ohms - or less.

 

Andy

 

 

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If you liked the Benz, the Benz Wood is meant to have a bit more warmth/Bass, I realise its over budget but I have one that I’ve been considering selling, PM me if interested for further details 

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Thanks Powerglide. I think I’ve found an option to try. But appreciate the message. I’ve never heard a Benz Wood in the flesh but I’ve read really good things about it. 

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On 10/06/2021 at 9:05 PM, Needo22 said:

Hi team, 

 

I'm after some cartridge advice. I'm looking for an cart (probably MC but open to ideas) that can bring a bit of warmth and bass to proceedings, since my system leans toward brightness.. It's a bit of a classic case of having acquired components without considering their compatibility. I'm running a VPI Scout 1.1 and iFi iphono3 BL, into Moon Ace. Speakers are RP600Ms. 

 

Budget is up to AU$1500. Play mostly indie, folk and blues. Have had Benz (Silver HOMC) and AT (AT33PTG/ii) in the past and really enjoyed their detail and balance. But as mentioned, it's been almost too much of a good thing. Now, I know that the cartridge is probably not the best place to try and affect this change, but I'm not looking for an overhaul in the character of my system (nor am I looking at component changes, tubes are the long-term plan), I'm just looking for a little tweak to try and offset some of the natural treble brightness. 

 

Anyway, I've got some thoughts based on what I've read here and elsewhere, but I'd love to hear what others have heard and would recommend. 

 

Cheers.  

Best cart I ever heard was a MI not a MC, a little bit over your budget though but honestly I have maybe 90 carts and this is the best by quite a margin and I have a lot of MC's. The London super gold, has to be heard to be believed.

Chris

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24 minutes ago, cafe latte said:

Best cart I ever heard was a MI not a MC, a little bit over your budget though but honestly I have maybe 90 carts and this is the best by quite a margin and I have a lot of MC's. The London super gold, has to be heard to be believed.

Chris

 

If you take Chris's advice, @Needo22 ... the Decca London Super Gold - at 5mV output - would plug into the MM inputs on your iPhono (so doesn't limit you, in terms of available cart loading).

 

Andy

 

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42 minutes ago, cafe latte said:

Best cart I ever heard was a MI not a MC, a little bit over your budget though but honestly I have maybe 90 carts and this is the best by quite a margin and I have a lot of MC's. The London super gold, has to be heard to be believed.

Chris

Chris could you outline the system you heard that on? PM if you prefer. 

Cheers

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5 minutes ago, Ahh- Schnoo Schnoo said:

Chris could you outline the system you heard that on? PM if you prefer. 

Cheers

 

I'm curious to know why you asked this Qu, A-SS.  Is it because:

  • if Chris's system is so much better than yours ... you can say to yourself "well it obviously won't sound any good in my system - so I won't bother buying one"?
  • or, if Chris's system is worse than yours ... then you can say "well that's just on his cr@p system - it won't sound good on my wonderful system - so I won't bother buying one"?

Andy

 

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1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

If you take Chris's advice, @Needo22 ... the Decca London Super Gold - at 5mV output - would plug into the MM inputs on your iPhono (so doesn't limit you, in terms of available cart loading).

 

Andy

 

I wouldn't put a Decca on the VPI Scout - the arm is not good enough to ensure good tracking.

 

Needo22 - have a look at the Soundsmith range of moving iron cartridges - they are very smooth, resolving and excellent value at all price points. You can choose low or high output and compliance to suit your system.

They are equally as good as the Benz/Dynavector cartridges at the same price points, but offer a better match for your tonearm.

 

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1 hour ago, Ahh- Schnoo Schnoo said:

Chris could you outline the system you heard that on? PM if you prefer. 

Cheers

Speakers ATC scm 100's

Turntables I have 8 they have all had a turn, but Commonwealth sl1200G and SP10mk2 to name 3.

Amps Conrad Premier 4 power amp and a Mosfet I built which is 185wpc heavily biased into class A (I have various amps but use those most).

Preamp DNM is what I use most, but I also have a Conrad premier 3 amongst others. All in a 8mx9m dedicated listening room I purpose built.

Why do you ask?

Chris

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25 minutes ago, 12ax7b said:

I wouldn't put a Decca on the VPI Scout - the arm is not good enough to ensure good tracking.

 

Needo22 - have a look at the Soundsmith range of moving iron cartridges - they are very smooth, resolving and excellent value at all price points. You can choose low or high output and compliance to suit your system.

They are equally as good as the Benz/Dynavector cartridges at the same price points, but offer a better match for your tonearm.

 

The London or Decca as they were had massive QC issues in the 80's add to that old ones with tieback stretched that people tried to make work when they really really needed a service gave Decca a bad name. Modern or serviced ones are another thing totally and they work on most arms if compliance is correct.

Chris 

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3 minutes ago, cafe latte said:

The London or Decca as they were had massive QC issues in the 80's add to that old ones with tieback stretched that people tried to make work when they really really needed a service gave Decca a bad name. Modern or serviced ones are another thing totally and they work on most arms if compliance is correct.

Chris 

Yes the new ones are better but I still wouldn't put one on the Scout arm - its not good enough.

By the way I've set up probably 20-30 Deccas of all persuasions in a range of arms.

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1 hour ago, Ahh- Schnoo Schnoo said:

Chris could you outline the system you heard that on? PM if you prefer. 

Cheers

Apart my 90 carts I retip carts so I have heard many many more.

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1 minute ago, 12ax7b said:

Yes the new ones are better but I still wouldn't put one on the Scout arm - its not good enough.

By the way I've set up probably 20-30 Deccas of all persuasions in a range of arms.

Dont want to argue but so have I, I have 8 turntables set up and I have had a VPI scout here too, not a problem for the Decca if it is new or serviced. I calibrate and rebuild these so I know a fair bit about them.

Chris

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Can I offer a suggestion retaining MM....Garrott Bros FGS Optim.  You'll have change from your suggested budget and  the cart I feel it will give you the character you're chasing.  There a few happy users on SnA also.

...not sure on the match with your tonearm tho, the resonance calc on vinyl engine can assist there.  

 

I have also heard/read good things about soundsmith but have no experience..when I was hunting the Othello was a consideration but the Carmen might be an option for you also.

That London Cart sounds pretty special too, I just read some reviews and they were totally glowing.

 

Good luck with your search, will be interesting to see what you decide on and your feedback on it

 

 

 

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On 15/06/2021 at 6:37 PM, andyr said:

 

I'm curious to know why you asked this Qu, A-SS.  Is it because:

  • if Chris's system is so much better than yours ... you can say to yourself "well it obviously won't sound any good in my system - so I won't bother buying one"?
  • or, if Chris's system is worse than yours ... then you can say "well that's just on his cr@p system - it won't sound good on my wonderful system - so I won't bother buying one"?

Andy

 

 

" better"  "Chris's system is worse"  "his cr@p system" "my wonderful system"

All your words Andy, attributed to me by you. You have a great imagination.

 

I'm trying to work out the balance of Chris's system, to compare it to my system - is it dead neutral, warmish, analytical etc.

I want to try Chris's recommended Decca cart. I have already purchased another cart recommended by Chris to try, as his experience with carts is WELL above mine.

 

Your post Andy looks like trolling. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....

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On 15/06/2021 at 8:04 PM, cafe latte said:

Speakers ATC scm 100's

Turntables I have 8 they have all had a turn, but Commonwealth sl1200G and SP10mk2 to name 3.

Amps Conrad Premier 4 power amp and a Mosfet I built which is 185wpc heavily biased into class A (I have various amps but use those most).

Preamp DNM is what I use most, but I also have a Conrad premier 3 amongst others. All in a 8mx9m dedicated listening room I purpose built.

Why do you ask?

Chris

 Hi Chris Thanks for your reply Just trying to work out the balance of your system, interested how the Decca cart would sound in my system - always wanted to try a Decca. Please don't be influenced by Andy's post, as I can assure you I was genuinely asking, not stirring the pot 👍

 

Cheers

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6 minutes ago, Ahh- Schnoo Schnoo said:

" better"  "Chris's system is worse"  "his cr@p system" "my wonderful system"

All your words Andy, attributed to me by you. You have a great imagination.

 

I'm trying to work out the balance of Chris's system, to compare it to my system - is it dead neutral, warmish, analytical etc.

I want to try Chris's recommended Decca cart. I have already purchased another cart recommended by Chris to try, as his experience with carts is WELL above mine.

 

Your post Andy looks like trolling. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....

 

Fascinating how the written word can be interpreted in so many different ways, A-S S.  :(

 

I posted what I did because I simply thought you were trying to find an excuse not to take Chris's (good) advice.  I didn't attribute any words to you - and I'm sure (having dealt with Chris) that he wouldn't have thought I was knocking his system.

 

Andy

 

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14 minutes ago, Ahh- Schnoo Schnoo said:

 

.

 

Your post Andy looks like trolling. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....

In these situations, the written word/s can often be taken the wrong way.

 

I have been a member here for a very long time and I know that @andyr is not and never has been, a troll ( quite the contrary in fact) and it may be wise to read the posts again and look for the context.

I intend absolutely no offence to you, but in this instance, I think this is a classic case of misunderstanding.

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intent vs impact.

 

taking a short-cut on the messaging can lead to "I'd never use your f'r instance words" or "that's not my summary"; fair enough. 

 

difference between what's meant and how its said.

 

good intent by all parties here, from my experience with all involved. Maybe we move along now? The OP's question is an interesting one and the advice provided is interesting, at least to this bystander.

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1 hour ago, rantan said:

In these situations, the written word/s can often be taken the wrong way.

 

I have been a member here for a very long time and I know that @andyr is not and never has been, a troll ( quite the contrary in fact) and it may be wise to read the posts again and look for the context.

I intend absolutely no offence to you, but in this instance, I think this is a classic case of misunderstanding.

 

Thank you, r.  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

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Thanks everyone for the comments. Some really helpful stuff in here, plenty for me to think about. Hadn’t looked at MI but I’m they certainly sound like a good option.

 

Appreciate all the advice and PMs! 👍

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I am sure it was all innocent questions on both parts. I hope info on my system helped. The Decca is quite neutral, but it is super fast, like no other cart. The tip sensing carts like decca the poles at the diamond and the poles pick up the movement of the tip of the cantilever. The cantilever is very short and light too.

Traditional carts the tip moves but information is read from the other end of the cantilever either by the magnet swinging in coils ir coils swinging in a magnetic field with a rubber suspension in the middle. The rubber and the long swinging cantilever will always sound vague compared to tip sensing which reads exactly what the tip is doing in the groove. Set up and serviced well a Decca is almost live, you are on stage with the band.

Chris

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