Aqua Acoustic Quality DACs Owners & Discussion Thread

[Silver Audiophile]

The Aqua LinQ streamer. Had it lent to me by Tony Wong for a short period. It was brand new, and it hadn't broken in yet. Was using it with the optional supplied Aqua I2S Ethernet cable.

A few immediate differences with the Innuos Zen Mk3 streamer.

 

First- the speed of musical response/transience. This would slow if outputting in regular USB cable from the LinQ (since the I2S only works with the Ethernet output, which the La Scala DAC has a specific I2S Ethernet input for).

 

Second- the tonal variation. On "Air on a 'G'- string", Ray Brown & Laurido Almeida 'Moonlight Serenade' Album, the stepping piano notes up and down the keyboard could be easily heard. The innuous Zen Mk 3 struggled by comparison to sound as convincing.

However, since my Aqua LinQ streamer was absolute brand new out of a box with insufficient hours, suffered the exact same issues of bring rather bright sounding as the Innuos did when it was brand new too. Tony Wong explains the next auditioner had a lovely time with the Aqua LinQ after I did the initial breaking in, and ended buying the unit. So, for a fair assessment, I'll need to review it again, already broken in.

 

The streamer is the next upgrade path. Either the Innuos Statament (RRP $22k) or Aqua LinQ (RRP $12k). I'll be considering other options too. The LinQ is modular like the La Scala DAC for future hardware upgradability, which adds bonus points. The LinQ on my shelf had good aesthetics.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Silver Audiophile

[ikhuong]

The race in gearing up streamer/server has been escalating fast. A few years ago most audiophiles went round and round with DYI PC or modded Mac computer and debated about USB just 0s and 1s and laughed to others when someone buys an expensive USB cable. The streaming in hiend is really moving fast.
 

My mate has LinQ to feed his Aqua Formula xHD while server is Antipodes K40 , they are one of the most revealing streaming setup I could listen around. If you decide to go with LinQ plus dual modules of HQPlayer Core/NAA, they will be the best combo and less prone to upstream server quality.

 

Antipodes or Innuous are both good choices.

Edited October 4, 2021 by ikhuong

[Silver Audiophile]

Further interim measures to improve the overall system- Adding the Telos Macro G and Q. Both engineered and conceived by Jeff Linn in Taiwan, whom developed the great sounding Telos Quantum X2 fuses and caps (which many of us are already using).

 

The larger devise is the Telos Macro G - A Ground Noise Reduction devise (GNR). It works by connecting via USB into your router or modem. The Telos Macro Q (the smaller device), works by connecting via USB to router or streamer to rectifier USB jitter and AC noise corrupting the USB signal.

 

Both units works best connected to the modem or router, which in itself is interesting because we tend to focus just on the HiFi gear itself, and seem satisfied with the $80 modem provided by our internet provider (which uses the cheapest switching power supplies).

 

Had a audiophile mate over to hear the difference. He immediately noted both made a significant difference and decided on buying both as I did. He uses a two chassis Naim streamer (unit retails around $10k).

 

The sound improvements-

 

1) The soundstage became far more discrete with instrument and vocal more vividly easily located within a 3-D spatial arrangement.

 

2) My favourite part- the vocals and instrumentals had more meat on the bones. Warm, organic, with body and lively sounding, not warm and mushy which I dislike.

 

Peter from Record Clean (Aussie importer of Telos audio), offered a money back guarantee if I wasn't satisfied. He knew, once plugged into my system I wasn't going to send it back. Especially, for the modest price for both units.

 

What captures my attention is just how all the gains are cumulative. Power regeneration do what they do to improve sound. Power cords and interconnects do what they do. Similarly, NOS tubes, and Mecados, Basalt slabs, Nordost Kones, Solid Steel shelving, Telos Quantum X2 fuses and caps etc. No matter which amp, pre amp, streamer, DAC etc I'll settle on- they'll all demand optimal support to sound at peak. We haven't even touch on the Elephant in room- Room acoustics.

 

The premise of just spending a heap on a DAC and ignoring everything else (room acoustics, rest of the hifi chain) is to ones audio peril. We will all progress along this hobby/journey at different paces, however, we will all come to the same conclusion in the end.

 

Lockdown ends for most of us soon. We ought to visit each other and listen to each other's systems, first invite is on me

 

From the Telos Macro G website (I agree):

 

So what can I expect to hear with the Telos Macro G connected?
By reducing noise through effective grounding you can expect to hear:
- A blacker, quieter background
- A more analogue presentation with reduced digital glare
- More musical detail
- A deeper and wider soundstage with greater focus and imaging
- More ‘air’ around instruments and vocals
- Improved dynamics

 

https://recordclean.com.au/telos-macro-grounding-noise-reducer-macro-g.html

 

https://recordclean.com.au/telos-macro-q.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Silver Audiophile

[Cardiiiii]

So ideally plug one of those in every component that has a USB input?

[Silver Audiophile]

44 minutes ago, Cardiiiii said:

So ideally plug one of those in every component that has a USB input?

The Telos Macro Q (smaller device), at least one (streamer or router). The more the better.

Jeff Linn the inventor, apparently has 6 plugged into his BMW's car system

[ikhuong]

Finally got my Curious Evolved USB to replace XLO UltraPLUS USB Cable for Aqua La Scala USB input. At 869.00/2m, it is not cheap but not expensive for a well-made and well-known Aussie product.  I think it is a sweet spot for digital cables as I have tried multiple ethernet cables and found they do not contribute significantly to sound improvement (considering I am a huge cable believer with Zensati loom in my system)

 

I have to say Curious  USB cables work as advertising, no need to find new words but bring up their words:

"Increased resolution providing more space, separation and three dimensional sound staging. Inner detail is improved, so you’ll hear more of the recording than ever before. " 

 

The most immediate improvement I could find without much burn-in was that the music seems to flow more naturally, which I would say  timing improved in streaming. Normally we can only hear great timing in an excellent well-setup turntable system, myself heard an excellent setup of TW-Acustic  from a mate and understood what is high-end sound of "timing": just natural. Streaming is not as good as analog yet but the gaps are getting closer. Curious USB will help to improve this.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by ikhuong

[ikhuong]

Got a Mullard ecc81 1958 NOS today from Dave, so again NOS tube is better than stock, quieter.

 

I tried Mullard on rca output and using Seraphim rca, shooting out with Telefunken Ecc801s ans using Seraphim XLR.

 

 

As expect, Telefunken is darker, cleaner and more transparent while Mullard is more musical, vocal is more foward and come closed like 1 step.

 

 

so personally, Telefunken is my cup of tea.

 

 

 

[Silver Audiophile]

27 minutes ago, ikhuong said:

Got a Mullard ecc81 1958 NOS today from Dave, so again NOS tube is better than stock, quieter.

 

I tried Mullard on rca output and using Seraphim rca, shooting out with Telefunken Ecc801s ans using Seraphim XLR.

 

 

As expect, Telefunken is darker, cleaner and more transparent while Mullard is more musical, vocal is more foward and come closed like 1 step.

 

 

so personally, Telefunken is my cup of tea.

 

 

 

Interesting results.

'58 Mullard MitchamTK1 tube to me as you say sounded the more musical of the two, warmer, fuller, more lively.

Telefunken leaner, lightly etched, and less resolving.

Lockdown ends at the beginning of next month (Sydney Vs regions), must hear it for myself

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Silver Audiophile

[ikhuong]

Maybe I am using rca which is known for softer vs Xlr as well, i will swap them to see

[Gazza13]

Looks like I'll be joining the Aqua club soon as I have a La Voce S3 on it's way (a few weeks but I'll survive).

 

It will be a 100% headphone set-up. I was originally going to use it with my STAX Sr-009/SRM-007tII combo but instead I'm going to use it my with my Sennheiser HD-800S/Manley Audio combo. Should look like this:

 

Server/Roon core: Innuos zenith mini mk3

Streamer: Naim NDX -> Tellurium Q Black II Waveform coax  cable(BNC)

Dac: la Voce S3 - > Atlas Mavros RCA cable

Headphone amp: Manley Audio Labs Neo-Classic 300B preamplifier w/Sophia Electric Princess 300Bs (planning to upgrade to the new Western Electric 300Bs at some point)

Headphones: Sennheiser HD-800S w/LavriCables Grand Silver cable upgrade

 

Hoping for something special.

[Xecuter]

On 30/09/2021 at 4:04 PM, Silver Audiophile said:

Great to hear Kevin. Hearing is really believing. I see your La Scala is similarly factory fitted with a new tested Russian production tube.

Factory fitted tube, is typical of say the better new Russian tubes, like Genelax (re-issue) Russian tubes. Forward voicing, smaller soundstage, tonally off, reduced layering and detail, higher noise floor, and widely expanded frequency range- piercing top and thin mids and thin lows.

These negative comments of the new production tubes, applies across the board to all new production tubes- now made only in Slovakia, Russia or China. Even cheap NOS tubes easily exceed the performance, even the ones that sell for under $55 (the price of new production Gold Lions).

The other caveat is of course the rest of your system. If your speakers and room acoustics don't allow a soundstage image, the NOS will not light up to their full potential. For example, speakers that are not phase accurate/coherent (that is most speakers since they are not first order cross over designed), with a broad off-axis response.. Speakers toed inwards only 5% (and not aggressively like 45% towards the listeners chair), speakers not placed withing a 1.5 meters of the front wall behind them, treatment of first reflection walls etc.

Other important complimentary tweaks, include as mention above in the tread, fuses, and input caps. Good quality shelving and in my case the extensive use of Honey Lava Basalt slabs, stainless steel mecados, and Nordost Sort Kones. Good quality power cords, interconnects and Power regenerator. All the tweaks lower the noise floor, improve bass tightness and response, mid range intricate feel and details. Other components in the HiFi chain, like Pre amp, amps, and source components are critical too of course. For example, I'm using an excellent Pre amp (Primaluna Evo 400 pre amp) with choice selected NOS tubes (including replacing out the factory fitted rectifier tubes).

 

BTW- new NOS tubes discovered from Europe (for La Scala DAC). Public reveal here soon. Blows the all the above mentioned NOS tubes away!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who made these diffusion panels btw? They look great.

[Silver Audiophile]

2 hours ago, Xecuter said:

 

Who made these diffusion panels btw? They look great.

Made by a close audiophile friend. Mathematical calculated quadratic diffusors. Very labour intensive to make. One off production.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Silver Audiophile

[Xecuter]

That's a shame. Would love to comission something similar if he has an interest in making some $$.

 

Al

[Lucas P]

On 26/9/2021 at 7:14 AM, Silver Audiophile said:

Hi Kevin.

 

Thanks for compliments. I started this thread, but, it is intended as a thread that belongs to all Aqua DAC owners.

 

Streamers: I have listened to the Aqua Linq, Innuos Zen Mk3 (currently own), Naim streamers, and Pink Faun 2.16 streamers. Big range in prices. Stay away from Pink Faun 2.16x and Naim Streams (too bright). Innuos is warm, analog and organic sounding. Aqua Linq is very a fine streamer too, and half the price of the Pink Faun 2.16x. Although I have never myself done the comparison, Antipode Vs Innnuos- people commented the Antipode is detailed, the Innuos is warmer. I like warm and organic.

 

USB interconnects: Good way to go. I found with pass experience, Coax connections tended to sound brighter as comparison to USB connections, but, I was going via a USB to Coax converter box. My advise, keep it simple, try ALL options and go with the one that sounds the best. With the Aqua LinQ, it is ethernet cables that is recommend for I2Q connection. I went with Aqua's own Ethernet cable and I2S. As per Cristian Anelli- best for transience and clarity. Absolutely, I agree entirely. Regarding USB cables, you have countless options. I have tried plenty. The Curios cable were good sounding, however, for similar money, the Furutech cables from Japan just sounded better (hence I returned the Curious cable). There are of course a myriad of more expensive and probable superior option out there.

 

TUBES: Glad to help here especially. So many great options. All of course NOS tubes. This is the single biggest improvement possible with the La Scala DAC. However, I must stress, the audiophile fuses and Telos caps were big leaps forward too and well worth the money, and compliment the right NOS tube. Currently, I am working with an overseas supplier to secure a batch of rare and also triode balanced ECC81 tubes.  So, rest assured La Scala DAC owners, the best is yet to come!!

 

 

 

Any update on the ECC81 tubes : )?

[ikhuong]

27 minutes ago, Lucas P said:

Any update on the ECC81 tubes : )?

Well it is the go to tube for Aqua, no brainer, quieter, definitely more dynamic which makes me to forget I am using a tube dac but still enjoy all the magic of tubes such as soundstage, Layers

 

however, Dave spoiled with one of his rare Mullard NOS 1950s  and oh no this is the best, quiet, dynamic but more musical than Telefunken 

[Ridgeback74]

Just wanted to say thanks for all the information provided in this discussion. I’ve recently bought a LaScala and its opened my eyes to what’s possible from my system.

It may have been written about already but do any of you have recommendations for power cable? 

[ikhuong]

17 minutes ago, Ridgeback74 said:

Just wanted to say thanks for all the information provided in this discussion. I’ve recently bought a LaScala and its opened my eyes to what’s possible from my system.

It may have been written about already but do any of you have recommendations for power cable? 

If you want to bring up lots of details but still keep a musical midrange and sweet top end, try Crystal power cable.  I have played with lots of power cables on La Scala, from Zensati, Zenwave, RSX, Verastarr to Furutech, this DAC is very sensitive to cable change and I found Crystal Reference is a sweet price range to bring up this DAC to better performance 

 

 

[Silver Audiophile]

1 hour ago, oreste.corbatta said:

Good night to every body.

 

Few days ago, i bought the AMAZING Aqua La Scala Optologic Dac. The 2 ECC81 are the Russian Generic new production (Not Genalex Gold Lion).

 

I´m going to start rolling tubes as all did. Obviusly, only NOS tubes. But i dream i the future, Telefunken start the production of ECC81 (they had already ECC82 and ECC83).

 

I only have a question and i really like, if it is possible...all the owner of La Scala in  this topic, tell me about, if when start playing the Dac...did you heard some distortion in the upper midrange (guitars for example). My La Scala has only a few hours (like 5 or 10) but i´m very sad if my set up is the problem or is because this DAC is un-broken (i think that it needs like...more than 200hs/300hs?).

 

Regards to every body.

 

Hi Steven,

 

Two things. First, where did you buy the Aqua La Scala DAC from? I see you are located in Sydney? Your post went up 1 hour ago (that's was 10:30am local Sydney time, but your greeting was 'Good night everyone'??).

Second, your DAC should not have any distortions as such. You ought to return it to the place of purchase. I wouldn't be tinkering within the unit (opening it etc), and rolling tubes, until the dealer you purchased it from can sort out issues you are having with your unit (assuming you didn't purchase this unit secondhand).

 

 

[ikhuong]

@oreste.corbatta

An imperfect tube can be easily the root cause. If brand new, I agree it is better to return dealer to resolve.

 

However, uou can try easily if your amp have both XLR and RCA, if still have distortion sound for both rca and xlr, it might be something else.. also, there is quite easy to do elimination test with tube for dealer, facing from the front of La scala, the left tube is for RCA output, the right tube is for XLR output.  

 

 

[Silver Audiophile]

1 hour ago, ikhuong said:

@oreste.corbatta

An imperfect tube can be easily the root cause. If brand new, I agree it is better to return dealer to resolve.

 

However, uou can try easily if your amp have both XLR and RCA, if still have distortion sound for both rca and xlr, it might be something else.. also, there is quite easy to do elimination test with tube for dealer, facing from the front of La scala, the left tube is for RCA output, the right tube is for XLR output.  

 

 

 

Kev, while this is a remote possibility, I remember asking via email Cristian Anelli (owner, founder, and hand builder of each new Aqua product), he does test each tube individually for triode balance (personally) from a larger batch of new tubes and then installing appropriately matched triode balanced tubes, prior to installing into the La Scala DAC. People not familiar or with a rudimentary knowledge of tubes shouldn't not be opening their La Scala's and swapping out tubes. Sticking a faulty tube (say one with a short), risks damaging expensive speaker drivers or even damaging one's power amplifier. I sourced my tubes from a trusted UK dealer known by many aficionados here in the Australian tube community with decades of experience, and using known reliable high quality testing equipment, measuring for shorts, gas leaks, transconductance and mu gain values.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Silver Audiophile

[mecani]

someone compared the MULLARD NOS/NIB M8162/ECC81/12AT7 Double Getter Tubes with the telfunken?

[AlurkA]

Have just received a set of early 50’s mullard and what I believe are diamond base telefunken. The mullard are currently in place and have listened for around 30 minutes.  They are different to the stock Genalex that came with my La Scala.  I am liking what I am hearing.  Will reserve judgement for after a few serious listens. 

[Gazza13]

Got a question re: valve upgrade. I ended up getting a La Scala over the La Voce and am loving it. After reading about how much of a difference rolling new tubes makes I'm eyeing the Telefunken ECC801S as an upgrade.

 

Am I right that I don't need a matched pair and that only one needs to be upgraded if I only use single-ended out? If so, how do I know which one to change?

 

Cheers.

[AlurkA]

55 minutes ago, Gazza13 said:

Got a question re: valve upgrade. I ended up getting a La Scala over the La Voce and am loving it. After reading about how much of a difference rolling new tubes makes I'm eyeing the Telefunken ECC801S as an upgrade.

 

Am I right that I don't need a matched pair and that only one needs to be upgraded if I only use single-ended out? If so, how do I know which one to change?

 

Cheers.

I think @Silver Audiophile may have mentioned which tube is for the RCA and which is for XLR in this thread somewhere. It’s not too long

[AlurkA]

On 9/6/2021 at 11:00 PM, Silver Audiophile said:

 

I think I've figured it out, below is my recent correspondence with Aqua in Italy via email, where the owner and designer answered my questions:

 

Currently, La Scala is fitted with a pair of specially selected Russian ECC81. Unfortunately, the new production Genalex no longer meet the HQ standards.

The left tube serves the RCA outputs while the tube on the right is for XLR. We recommend the selection for the 2 triodes for each tube.

Kind regards,

Cristian Anelli
aqua - acoustic quality
email: support@aquahifi.com
www.aquahifi.com

Makes sense now, the Genalex Gold lions must have been given the boot, and Cristian Anelli is now using the newer unlabled new Russian production tubes (my DAC is fairly new).

Either way, all new production Russian tubes come out of the Saratov Reflektor factory. I clearly hear a vast improvements with the NOS tubes still however.

@Gazza13 Found it.