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Posted (edited)

The Situation

 

My listening levels, taste in music, and windows for listening to it are not entirely compatible with my partner's work-from-home situation, or my child's sleep (not that she sleeps consistently anyway). I need headphones.

 

 

What I Have

 

I already have a Topping D90 DAC and have an A90 in the works as soon as A2A can source it (chosen because I can also use it as a preamp for a different project). I am not opposed to a tube amp at some point, but it's not going to happen straight off the bat. I have some old closed back Audio-Technica ATH-A700Xs that are fun with their midrange push but are honestly more a jazz listener's headphone and that's not a big genre for me. Also my wife has borrowed them for work as her little KEF M500 pads have given out yet again.

 

 

What I Listen To

 

Bigger genes with me are Thrash, Sludge, Doom on the metal side of things, Indie if it has any guts to it or is well written, Electronic Ambient, IDM, Industrial, some Pop if it's decent, atmospheric soundtracks (especially video game), some Hip Hop, odd stuff. 

 

 

Triangulating My Preferred Sound

 

In speakers, I like the tightness of my NS-1000Ms' bass, if not the extension, but find the top end only just tolerable with a tube amp, depending on the recording. I do love their speed, though, and that piano sounds like piano. I like the slightly more relaxed nature of my Special Forties for long seasons, but find the bass a little too dumpy at times, and the treble a bit, shaped? The KEF Q series towers and Rotel amp I have in the living room are also good, but they need a sub to fill things out. They are pretty much perfectly even, but, as such, not always engaging. 

 

In headphones, my experience is extremely limited. The ATH-A700X mentioned above are fun, but not for every genre, and as my speaker stuff has improved I've noticed the shortcomings of these cans. When I bought them I A/Bed them against Oppo PM-3s, which were pleasant, but extremely boring to me at the time, especially with metal.

 

 

Special Requirements

 

- not fussed about open or closed, as I have my own room, but if I can tick every box with closed, great

- no leather (I'm not interested in debating it - it's my preference and that's that) 

- option for a balanced cable, if it doesn't come with one

 

Budget

 

$1000 Max at present

 

 

Options I'm Considering

 

Sennheiser HD600, HD660S

HIFIMAN Sundara

Shure SRH1540 (potentially boring, distorts at higher levels?) 

Audio-Technica ATH-R70X (poor build?)

Focal Elex (reliability issues, Drop wait time and returns dramas?) 

 

So, with all that said, please impart your wisdom and let me know what I should look at! 

 

FWIW I am in regional Victoria so audition ain't really possible logistically.

Edited by twofires
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Plenty of comparisons on the net compared the HD600 vs the HD650 (6xx). Some prefer one over the other.   6xx are fairly common here used, circa $250.   And warranty is great, but

On balance of virtues, HD6XX has to be your best option and significantly, endorsed by a Headphone God @Bengineer.

I was getting a hotspot from my 1540's too on long listening sessions (something I didn't encounter when I demoed them). Chucked on a Sen HD280 pro headband pad and it solved the problem for me.

How about the Meze 99 Classics?

Closed. Good sound, maybe a bit much bass but can easily be modified, treble and mid-range clear and non-fatiguing. Not boring.

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19 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

How about the Meze 99 Classics?

Closed. Good sound, maybe a bit much bass but can easily be modified, treble and mid-range clear and non-fatiguing. Not boring.

 

Interesting!

 

I had always thought these were real leather, but it turns out it's polyurethane? Neat.

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if you have a quiet room and can go open or closed, then open may offer better sound stage, timbre and comfort

 

if you cant audition consider buying used and be prepared to buy and sell a few cans

 

Focal Clear used  can be just in budget and could suit you well. Many find them a good step up from  Senn HD6xx and the Focal Elex. They have an enjoyable punchy quality while still resolving

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5 minutes ago, Nada said:

if you have a quiet room and can go open or closed, then open may offer better sound stage, timbre and comfort

 

if you cant audition consider buying used and be prepared to buy and sell a few cans

 

Focal Clear used  can be just in budget and could suit you well. Many find them a good step up from  Senn HD6xx and the Focal Elex. They have an enjoyable punchy quality while still resolving

 

 

I've heard these sentiments regarding open headphones - having never experienced them I imagine it'll be revelatory no matter what I go with!


My understanding is that the Elex is the only Focal headphone that doesn't use leather, and as such is the only one open to consideration by me. The issue is the horrendous customer feedback on Drop - driver failure is far more common than it ought to be. I'm inclined to steer clear (pun not intended) altogether.

 

 

 

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How about a used leather free Audeze LCD-2 then?

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7 minutes ago, Nada said:

How about a used leather free Audeze LCD-2 then?

 

Also on my radar. It seems the leather free are harder to come by, and there's some question as to whether the LCD-2 Classics are better (and those I can't find leather-free in the country). Mostly though, the reviews are more divided than for some of the other options, and so I'm not sure if it's best to hear them first. I certainly love the look.

 

Speaking of, if I had more money (like, double and then some) the Audio-Technica ATH-AWAS float my boat in the looks department. Probably best not to start with something so expensive and esoteric, though.

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Posted (edited)

If you like the look of the Audio-Technica ATH-AWAS but need to be on budget  then maybe post a WTB for a  Denon D7000 if they are leather free?

 

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/report/hp/denon/denon-d7000/1.jpg

Edited by Nada
Leather issue.
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I am definitely a sucker for wood cups. In my price range the options are few, however. Especially new. The Meze 99 Classics mentioned above, and the Fostex TH610, for which the reviews are extremely variable. I thought for a minute they used the same cables as Sennheiser, meaning I could buy a set of TH610 AND a set of HD600s and share a balanced cable between them, but apparently the polarity is switched on the Fostex?

 

I'm also aware that Beyerdynamic have a ranger of options open and closed, but I'm wary of the famous bright signature, as I'm quite sensitive to bumped up treble. I cannot, for instance, listen to ATH-M50Xs for more than a minute.

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Also, I really do love the vibe of the LCD-2s.

 

AudezeLCD-2Shedua01_4000x.progressive.thumb.jpg.e0829d904ad330635c8d7fd3dfeba33c.jpg

 

Slightly out of budget for the moment, though. Also not sure I want to buy planars used. Last I read they were somewhat fragile?

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[continues to talk to himself]

 

The other option is to try for a little bit from Column A and a little bit from Column B by getting both a pair of ATH-R70X and a pair of SRH-1540. Neither is especially sexy to look at, but I get two different sounds and styles with the option of balanced cables later.

 

Really my only concern about the R70X is that it doesn't look quite as well built or comfortable as the HD600, but it's allegedly so close in sound that if I got them I doubt I'd ever be able to justify getting the HD600 down the line (which seems to be a head-fi rite of passage?).

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Is the no Leather thing as in "Vegan Friendly" or as in "I just want Velour pads" ?

 

 

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Just now, Bengineer said:

Is the no Leather thing as in "Vegan Friendly" or as in "I just want Velour pads" ?

 

 

 

It's a vegan thing. If it were purely a comfort thing I'd happily just swap pads out.

 

I've just shot an e-mail to A2A re: whether ordering LCD-2 Classics in the Leather-Free is a possibility (although the supposedly muted midrange with those is a concern).

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The LCD-2 is also very heavy. Personally was too heavy for me to be a daily driver. Has a bit of a weird mid-range that needs fixing too, the Reveal Plugin works well, but I think it needs it to sound good.

 

The OG HD800 comes in under 1000 used easily. Personally I like it with a bump in the lows via EQ, but for its technical performance and all round wow factor, won't be beaten for that price.

 

The Fostex 610 isn't really that great. It's fine, and if you get it cheap enough, sure. But not winning any awards. Nice wood cups though.

 

Maybe check and see what the side part of the Ananda pads is made from? I'd be fairly confident its just synthetic something. Its a good option, comfy, airy, detailed, balanced. I'd doubt they use real leather on any of their cheaper offerings, but check with them directly. Reviewers can't spot real leather from synthetic if their lives depended on it.

 

 

Edited by Bengineer
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@bengineer Thanks for that. I am definitely HD800/HD800S curious, but I get the feeling I might find the 'incredible soundstage but little bass' thing a bit tiring. I'm not a bass head, but I certainly miss it when it's gone. This is why I'm so disappointed in the Focal Elex driver issues - it sounds like they are a more balanced alternative.

 

Everything I can dig up on the Ananda says the pads and headband are both leather. I'd happily settle for the Sundara if they get me most of the sound for less, though.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Bengineer said:

The LCD-2 is also very heavy. Personally was too heavy for me to be a daily driver. Has a bit of a weird mid-range that needs fixing too, the Reveal Plugin works well, but I think it needs it to sound good.

 

The weight is certainly a concern. This is another reason the closed back option of the Shure SRH-1540 is appealing, they apparently weigh very little.

 

Have you heard the LCD-2 vs LCD-2 Classics? Does the need for EQ apply to both?

Edited by twofires
typo
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Most Audeze need EQ :P

 

Its a joke but sort of really isn't also. Maybe LCD-4 doesn't, but the 2, 2C and 3 need a bit.

 

The Shure is underrated. Give it a go if possible, else not a bad one to take a punt on.

 

The 6XX might suit too. To be honest, it's really good. And far out its cheap now. Easy no-loss resell if you buy used too, so maybe start there and see.

 

The R70X isn't neccesarily "poor" build. But it is very light and flexible feeling. As are a lot of the cheaper AT.

 

$1000 is close to $1500 in the grand scheme of things, which opens you to a ZMF Aeolus. Wack on the suede pads and alcantera / synthetic headstrap, and you're sitting pretty :P

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The HD6XX seems like a great option, aside from Drop shipping wait times. Looks like it comes to about $310.

 

How do they compare to the HD600s? There's this ad in the classifieds that includes balanced cables, for pretty much the same money:

 

 

The R70X new vs HD600 used vs HD6XX new options all seem to have equivalent pros and cons. R70X have the flimsiest build, but come with the peace of mind of an Australian retail warranty. HD600 used are the kind of headphone you could comfortably buy used, but you're still on your own. HD6XX are new, well reviewed, few quality complaints, but dealing with Drop is tedious when you're not in the states.

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Hello twofires.

 

I am guessing that avoiding leather definitely removes a number of options. The trouble being that phones viewed as ‘premium’ often come with leather headbands or cups as part of up market selling structure.

 

Obviously being stuck in Melbourne lockdown limits your ability to get out and have a listen. Personally I think it is really worth preparing a short list of headphones that avoid the leather situation and head down to A2A for a listen. Reading reviews I thought a number of the Fostex models would appeal but I found them bloody awful. The only way to actually know is to put them on your head.

 

Your DAC / Amp combo will drive basically anything and should be very neutral, therefore the personality of the chosen phones left fairly unaltered.

 

I really did like the Focal Celestee which I think would suit your musical preferences but I fear they contain leather.

 

Looking forward to finding out what you end up choosing.

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I have a set of Beyerdynamic DT 1770 Tesla Pro Studio Headphones in the Classifieds for $500. They retail for $899 and offer very high levels of performance. I opted for a set of Neumann Headphones but could easily have stayed with the Beyerdynamics. Bass performance is excellent as is the rest of the audio spectrum. Well worth adding to your list of options without getting into the $1000 + bracket. No need to buy a separate headphone amp as my integrated drives them with no problem at all.

Cheers

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8 hours ago, twofires said:

The HD6XX seems like a great option, aside from Drop shipping wait times. Looks like it comes to about $310.

 

How do they compare to the HD600s? There's this ad in the classifieds that includes balanced cables, for pretty much the same money:

 

 

The R70X new vs HD600 used vs HD6XX new options all seem to have equivalent pros and cons. R70X have the flimsiest build, but come with the peace of mind of an Australian retail warranty. HD600 used are the kind of headphone you could comfortably buy used, but you're still on your own. HD6XX are new, well reviewed, few quality complaints, but dealing with Drop is tedious when you're not in the states.

Plenty of comparisons on the net compared the HD600 vs the HD650 (6xx). Some prefer one over the other.

 

6xx are fairly common here used, circa $250.

 

And warranty is great, but the HD600 and HD6XX are bulletproof. Unchanged in 20 years for a reason. Sundara, warranty needed. HD6XX, wouldn't sweat it.

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2 hours ago, 075Congo said:

I have a set of Beyerdynamic DT 1770 Tesla Pro Studio Headphones in the Classifieds for $500. They retail for $899 and offer very high levels of performance. I opted for a set of Neumann Headphones but could easily have stayed with the Beyerdynamics. Bass performance is excellent as is the rest of the audio spectrum. Well worth adding to your list of options without getting into the $1000 + bracket. No need to buy a separate headphone amp as my integrated drives them with no problem at all.

Cheers

It does sound like a great deal, no doubt. I think for me Beyers might be an audition first thing, though. I find I'm quite sensitive to boosted treble, and from what I understand that's a Beyer hallmark. 

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3 hours ago, Ooogh said:

Hello twofires.

 

I am guessing that avoiding leather definitely removes a number of options. The trouble being that phones viewed as ‘premium’ often come with leather headbands or cups as part of up market selling structure.

 

Obviously being stuck in Melbourne lockdown limits your ability to get out and have a listen. Personally I think it is really worth preparing a short list of headphones that avoid the leather situation and head down to A2A for a listen. Reading reviews I thought a number of the Fostex models would appeal but I found them bloody awful. The only way to actually know is to put them on your head.

 

Your DAC / Amp combo will drive basically anything and should be very neutral, therefore the personality of the chosen phones left fairly unaltered.

 

I really did like the Focal Celestee which I think would suit your musical preferences but I fear they contain leather.

 

Looking forward to finding out what you end up choosing.

 

You're right about the auditioning, it's just such a pain at the moment. Even when lockdown lifts entirely I'm almost 3 hours drive from A2A, and with the little one going through a very, err, wilful phase, justifying a solo trip for a whole day is, well, it's accepted that I'm going to have to try a few headphones and just wear the cost if I get it wrong.

 

I think you're ears and mine would probably agree on the Fostex. Which is a shame, because they look quite nice. 

 

Yeah, the leather = premium thing is a drag. It's partially why I'm so into the idea of the Audio Technica ATH-AWAS. No leather, just microfibre on that one. The cost is prohibitive, but the looks are fantastic. If there were more reviews I'd be tempted to shoot for them anyway.

 

As for Focal, I've seen a few people saying they've emailed them and found all of their headphones have leather (except the Elex, because cheap and Drop). Focal even put leather on their speakers, so I'm not too surprised. 

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Going back to an earlier comment on open-backed headphones: the first time I heard a pair of Grado open headphones at A2A it was an utter revelation. I'm not sure Grado specifically would be the answer for the styles music you listen to (and their foam ear cups also get mixed reviews from a comfort level), but if sound leakage isn't an issue open-backed headphones would get my vote!

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41 minutes ago, Bengineer said:

Plenty of comparisons on the net compared the HD600 vs the HD650 (6xx). Some prefer one over the other.

 

6xx are fairly common here used, circa $250.

 

And warranty is great, but the HD600 and HD6XX are bulletproof. Unchanged in 20 years for a reason. Sundara, warranty needed. HD6XX, wouldn't sweat it.

 

I hear you. 

 

It's funny, half of the reviews out there relate back to the HD600, so it might be worth getting them just to have a point of reference, if nothing else. 

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1 minute ago, Tone Malone said:

Going back to an earlier comment on open-backed headphones: the first time I heard a pair of Grado open headphones at A2A it was an utter revelation. I'm not sure Grado specifically would be the answer for the styles music you listen to (and their foam ear cups also get mixed reviews from a comfort level), but if sound leakage isn't an issue open-backed headphones would get my vote!

 

I am definitely Grado curious, especially as the barrier to entry is so low! I worked with a guy who had auditioned most of everything at one point or another, but still felt his SR60s were special. The pads on the bigger ones don't fit my ears, but I'm still into the idea. 

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22 hours ago, twofires said:

 

The weight is certainly a concern. This is another reason the closed back option of the Shure SRH-1540 is appealing, they apparently weigh very little.

 

Have you heard the LCD-2 vs LCD-2 Classics? Does the need for EQ apply to both?

I love my shure 1540! Very light, nice bass, and the pads are comfy. The only caveat is that the top of the headband causes a hotspot. I bought a spare 6xx pad set to install but haven't had a chance yet. It also isn't a detailed HP if that's your deal. They are so much fun for dance and electro stuff. 

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2 hours ago, wroughtsteel said:

I love my shure 1540! Very light, nice bass, and the pads are comfy. The only caveat is that the top of the headband causes a hotspot. I bought a spare 6xx pad set to install but haven't had a chance yet. It also isn't a detailed HP if that's your deal. They are so much fun for dance and electro stuff. 

Very useful info, thank you for that. The hotspot thing will be interesting. I have a bit of a ridge down the middle of my head (insert your Klingon jokes here) , so I'm quite prone hotspots. The sound signature sounds like a good antidote to overly detailed cans. 

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On 10/06/2021 at 10:58 PM, twofires said:

 

I am definitely Grado curious, especially as the barrier to entry is so low! I worked with a guy who had auditioned most of everything at one point or another, but still felt his SR60s were special. The pads on the bigger ones don't fit my ears, but I'm still into the idea. 

Ahh, if Grados are still on your 'possible' list then...

 

When I added the Meze 99 Classics to my travel system it was because my SR80s leaked too much noise to neighbours while on airplanes. To overcome the ambient noise without the person next to me complaining was essential, otherwise I never would have bothered. As for comfort the SR80 band adjusts easily and Sennheiser ear-pads are a cheap replacement, although I have heard that the newer Grado pads are fine.

 

I know that many people love Focals, but when I had a long listen to the (IIRC) LCD-2 model I found them OK but boring and couldn't see spending the money on them.

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On 09/06/2021 at 2:33 PM, twofires said:

The Situation

 

My listening levels, taste in music, and windows for listening to it are not entirely compatible with my partner's work-from-home situation, or my child's sleep (not that she sleeps consistently anyway). I need headphones.

 

 

What I Have

 

I already have a Topping D90 DAC and have an A90 in the works as soon as A2A can source it (chosen because I can also use it as a preamp for a different project). I am not opposed to a tube amp at some point, but it's not going to happen straight off the bat. I have some old closed back Audio-Technica ATH-A700Xs that are fun with their midrange push but are honestly more a jazz listener's headphone and that's not a big genre for me. Also my wife has borrowed them for work as her little KEF M500 pads have given out yet again.

 

 

What I Listen To

 

Bigger genes with me are Thrash, Sludge, Doom on the metal side of things, Indie if it has any guts to it or is well written, Electronic Ambient, IDM, Industrial, some Pop if it's decent, atmospheric soundtracks (especially video game), some Hip Hop, odd stuff. 

 

 

Triangulating My Preferred Sound

 

In speakers, I like the tightness of my NS-1000Ms' bass, if not the extension, but find the top end only just tolerable with a tube amp, depending on the recording. I do love their speed, though, and that piano sounds like piano. I like the slightly more relaxed nature of my Special Forties for long seasons, but find the bass a little too dumpy at times, and the treble a bit, shaped? The KEF Q series towers and Rotel amp I have in the living room are also good, but they need a sub to fill things out. They are pretty much perfectly even, but, as such, not always engaging. 

 

In headphones, my experience is extremely limited. The ATH-A700X mentioned above are fun, but not for every genre, and as my speaker stuff has improved I've noticed the shortcomings of these cans. When I bought them I A/Bed them against Oppo PM-3s, which were pleasant, but extremely boring to me at the time, especially with metal.

 

 

Special Requirements

 

- not fussed about open or closed, as I have my own room, but if I can tick every box with closed, great

- no leather (I'm not interested in debating it - it's my preference and that's that) 

- option for a balanced cable, if it doesn't come with one

 

Budget

 

$1000 Max at present

 

 

Options I'm Considering

 

Sennheiser HD600, HD660S

HIFIMAN Sundara

Shure SRH1540 (potentially boring, distorts at higher levels?) 

Audio-Technica ATH-R70X (poor build?)

Focal Elex (reliability issues, Drop wait time and returns dramas?) 

 

So, with all that said, please impart your wisdom and let me know what I should look at! 

 

FWIW I am in regional Victoria so audition ain't really possible logistically.

 

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If you manage to stretch your budget a little, try the Quad ERA-1 superb bass, great everywhere else comes with leather and synthetic leather or genuine sheepskin covers, a superb piece of kit .

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On 11/06/2021 at 11:09 AM, wroughtsteel said:

I love my shure 1540! Very light, nice bass, and the pads are comfy. The only caveat is that the top of the headband causes a hotspot. I bought a spare 6xx pad set to install but haven't had a chance yet. It also isn't a detailed HP if that's your deal. They are so much fun for dance and electro stuff. 

I was getting a hotspot from my 1540's too on long listening sessions (something I didn't encounter when I demoed them). Chucked on a Sen HD280 pro headband pad and it solved the problem for me.

 

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1 hour ago, Soul Superfly said:

If you manage to stretch your budget a little, try the Quad ERA-1 superb bass, great everywhere else comes with leather and synthetic leather or genuine sheepskin covers, a superb piece of kit .

Interesting. The Australian stockist I found only lists it with leather pads, but I'll do some research.

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From what I've read, the headphone that would most suit my preferences would be the Audeze LCD-2 Classic... with EQ. The problem is that I have a fair few LPs, a LOT of CDs, and no desire to digitise them for the sake of software EQ. This would be easily solved with CD if I'd bought an RME ADI instead of the A90/D90 and used my CDP as a transport, but even then, I'd have to buy the super expensive RME with the ADC to sort the vinyl equalisation. Doesn't seem worth it. 

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Closed back headphones are the best solution for your situation. Been there, tried both.  

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6 hours ago, Bisguittin said:

On balance of virtues, HD6XX has to be your best option and significantly, endorsed by a Headphone God @Bengineer.

 

It seems like HD6xx if I want better treble, ATH-R70X if I want better bass, Sundara if I want the 'slam', HD660s if I want something a bit less neutral, Grado if I want something a LOT less neutral. All open back. 

 

Closed back seems a bit fraught. Shure has a potential hotspot problem (although modding may alleviate it), DT770 PRO is v-shaped, which isn't my preference although the rest seems good, AT models are a a mixed bag (although I do like the wing headband thingo on the lower end and older models), and Sennheiser just have no idea how to make a closed headphone.

 

Might end up getting an assortment! 

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      Includes all accessories including USB-C cables, 3.5mm cables and pouch.
       
      Few scuffs on the metal housing. Leather is perfect (no tears, holes).
       
      Excellent sounding, neutral noise cancelling cans. Not easy to find these days as they're tuned too aggressively v-shaped.
       
      Any questions please ask.

      Photos:
       
       
      PLEASE READ
      If you include any reference to pricing whatsoever in this section (excluding RRP), your ad will not be approved If you are advertising multiple items, you must post one bulk price only, or post seperate ads for each item If you don't include photographs of the actual item being sold, your ad will not be approved You understand that a reasonable donation for selling fees is expected upon successful sale of your item
      - if you have previously sold items and not made a donation, your advertisement may not be approved.





    • By Blaine Arnold
      Item Condition: Near Mint Shipping Options: Pickup available and you can audition.,Shipping is available at agreed cost. Suburb or Town: Dulwich Hill, Sydney State: NSW Payment Method: Cash, Paypal, EFT Reason for selling: No longer required Further information: 
      Sony WH-1000XM3 Headphones.
      Excellent condition, comes with all original accessories.  I've used these twice, and now sit in my draw unused. 
       
      Can Ship, or Pick Up available - Dulwich Hill, Sydney
       
      Photos:
       




       


    • By petng
      Item Condition: Used Shipping Options: Pickup available but audition is not available.,Shipping is included in price. Suburb or Town: Keilor State: VIC Payment Method: PayPal gift, eft Reason for selling: NLR Further information:
       Aussie Stock, purchased April 2020 from ADA. Original owner.
       
      Note no Grado extension cable, I am keeping it . 
       
      Selling cause I have settled for a pair of Final Audio D8000 pro.
       
       

      Photos:
       
      PLEASE READ
      If you include any reference to pricing whatsoever in this section (excluding RRP), your ad will not be approved If you are advertising multiple items, you must post one bulk price only, or post seperate ads for each item If you don't include photographs of the actual item being sold, your ad will not be approved You understand that a reasonable donation for selling fees is expected upon successful sale of your item
      - if you have previously sold items and not made a donation, your advertisement may not be approved.








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