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GIESELER Kraftwerk II Dual power supply owners thread.


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Hi everyone.

These are getting popular now with only one case left from the first batch.

More cases have been ordered but they are about 2 - 3 weeks away.

 Owners please feel to comment & add feedback.

There will be a mini review on "Passion for Sound" YouTube soon.

 

Cheers

Clay

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I'm currently using the Kraftwerk II Dual to drive a Matrix Element H USB card and a JCAT USB card (can't recall if it's the XE or Femto and I'm out of the office). I've also got the JCAT Network card that I'm yet to install. It will replace the Matrix card once I complete a comparison of the two USB cards and then the Kraftwerk will drive the two JCAT cards.

 

The review of the cards is due out the week after next and will include discussion of the Kraftwerk II so stay tuned :)

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I added a Gieseler Kraftwerk Dual to my system earlier this week. 

Clay was great to deal with. He built my PSU, shipped it next day (Friday) from QLD and I received it Monday in VIC. Try getting that sort of service from an O/S supplier!

 

I already had an Uptone JS2 dual LPS powering my ultraRendu and an iFi usb device. The JS2 was excellent, but I wanted to move the it to server/etherRegen duty, so another dual LPS was the obvious choice.

The JS2 and Kraftwerk II offer the same voltage options and both utilise CLC filtering, though the Kraftwerk has an external EI transformer and has individual filters prior to regulation for each DC output and uses the LT4320 controller/MOSFET bridge for the dual rectifiers.  

When I substituted the Kraftwerk I was simply hoping it would match the JS2, so was surprised when heard improvements over the latter.

With the Kraftwerk there was better placement, instrument separation and overall depth. Also seemed to be more delicacy/nuance to sounds. Nice.

No idea what's actually happening but improvements of this nature typically result from reducing noise/interference of some sort - I got improvements of a similar nature moving from direct PC > USB to inserting the ultraRendu endpoint into the system. 

Subsequent to installing the Kraftwerk I put the JS2 back powering my Mac Mini server and the etherRegen, gaining further improvements. So a win/win.

It's always difficult to predict how upgrading PSU's will translate to other systems/devices but I highly recommend the Kraftwerk II dual - excellent build, performance and value.

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I have today received my Kraftwerk II Fixed output PSU which I have added to my SoTM Network Switch.

 

It has identical specs as the Kraftwerk II  but with fixed voltage out and in a new lower profile case which looks great- Refer Image.

 

I have now removed all SBoosters from my system , I ordered this late Monday afternoon from Clay @Gieseler Audio and it arrived at lunchtime today (I am in Melbourne) that's amazing service!

 

I can't speak highly enough of this company and their service and products...

 

IMG_8232.jpg

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22 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

A bit of info on the Kraftwerk II Dual Power supply in this Passion for Sound video.

About a third of the way in.

 

 

 

Check the chapter markings for a shortcut to the KW2 cameo 😉 

 

Edit: only works on YouTube, not embedded vids

Edited by PassionForSound
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  • 1 month later...

When I am very excited & delighted by a significant positive change that a product provides to me for raising my enjoyment of music & movies (in this case, the Kraftwerk Dual II PSU), I do tend to be way too verbose, so in an effort to be concise I will list the key attributes that I have noticed in the 4 days of having the Kraftwerk Dual II power supply in my Audio/Video system to power both of my EtherREGENs, and make two seperate posts.

 

Noticed significant improvements to the following:
- Pace, Rhythm and Timing ... this was the first thing I noticed, a great noticeable improvement. I love it.
- Tone, Timbre.
- Dynamics.
- Transients.
- My enjoyment of music 🎶 😊 .

- For powering both my EtherREGENS, the Kraftwerk II Dual even outperformed my JS-2.

 

Piano and Saxophone I know the "live" sound quite well. While I no longer play, I do still have a Piano in my house, and have relatives who play it at family get-togethers (and also they bring their Saxophone). During the first day of using the Kraftwerk II Dual powering my ERs, any music with Piano and Saxophone just sounds more real, more right.

 

Other thoughts:
- The case work of the Kraftwerk Dual II is superb. Physically  inspected it for a few minutes prior to powering it on, and it does leave an immediate impression of "this is quality, impressive" when I took it out of the shipping box.
- To get a dual output LPS which provides exceptional improvement for my ERs, for the cost involved, was a very good deal. 
- Packed very well for shipping.
- This is my first Gieseler product & I did consider other options/manufacturers, but wanted to give another Ozzie company a go (after recent positive experiences with other OZ manufacturers).
- One thing I should note, is while I heard improvements from my very first use of the Kraftwerk II Dual, it does take a day or two to settle. By day 3 noticed no further changes.
- The power supply has some weight/heft to it, about 3 kg.
- Ordered the Kraftwerk about 6am and Clay built and shipped my PSU on the same day!  Received it shortly afterwards by express post. I realise with the demand for Gieseler products that this may not always be possible. Still, it was a wonderful surprise.
- Clay's communication and customer service is of the very highest calibre. 
- So impressed, after only 2 days of having the Kraftwerk II Dual in my system, that I made another order (to power my Modem/Router which requires 15V ), this time for a Kraftwerk II HV.

 

*** No association with the manufacturer, would not know them from a bar of soap ***

 

IMG_0793.jpeg

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...  alrighty then ... now for the long-winded version with further thoughts & added detail 😃 ...

 

This is not my first rodeo with LPS (have tried about 7 different types over the years, from inexpensive to a bit exxy), and I am just so very impressed with the Gieseler Kraftwerk II Dual. It is one of the two best LPS that I have ever owned (the other is UpTone JS-2). My thoughts is that the Kraftwerk II Dual is a LPS of the highest calibre ... exceptional.

 

Kraftwerk II Dual was ordered to power my two EtherREGENs ... I use one dedicated for audio, another for video ... both ERs live on my AV rack and connect via MM optical fibre back to my managed switch, so I have electrical isolation from the rest of my network.  Kraftwerk II Dual is also being powered by a very high quality Ozzie made Balanced Power Supply, as well as being placed on a shelf incorporating both IsoAcoustics and Townshend Audio isolation products. 

 

TL;DR ... the AV shelf holding the Kraftwerk Dual II, both ERs, PDU (power strip), and my Apple TV4K, is fully optimised (to the best of my tweaking ability) for Power/Network/Physical isolation.

 

During my testing, I tried just powering just ER (Audio) and listening. Then powered my ER(Video) from the 2nd output. Noticed no degradation by powering both ERs at the same time. I did the same test with my JS-2 and actually noticed a performance drop if using both DC outlets to power both ERs, maybe because it has a shared floating ground. 

 

This did not happen with the Kraftwerk II Dual ... also the performance gains were greater, so it was a win for the Kraftwerk II Dual powering both of my ERs.  [Moved the JS-2 back to powering my Roon Nucleus and managed switch].

 

TL;DR I realised better performance when utilising Kraftwerk II Dual to power both my ERs, also worked out which power supplies to use with which device ... it was a win/win.


Both ERs, Roon Nucleus, managed switch, all now powered by LPS of an exceptional quality/calibre ... with included a surprise that the Kraftwerk II Dual even outperformed the JS-2 for powering my EtherREGENs.

 

That left me with just requiring one more LPS required for my Modem/Router. When I ordered the Gieseler Kraftwerk II Dual, I mentioned to Clay that I may get another LPS (to power my Billion modem/router which needs 15V) later this year.

 

At the 48 hour mark of having the Kraftwerk II Dual in my system powering the EtherREGENs, I was so impressed that I ordered a Kraftwerk II HV for this purpose.

 

IMG_0799.jpeg

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I totally agree with all of your comments on Gieseler products, I am an a huge fan and now have 4 units in my system powering the below components.

 

  • SoTM Network Switch
  • I7 Nuc / Nucleus + (depending which one I use)
  • Chord Hugo Mscaler (huge improvement made here from the standard power supply and the Sbooster I had)
  • Chord Hugo TT2

Agree totally if we can support a local business here in Australia we should, Clay is first class in service level.

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couldn't agree more with the recent reviews... the Kraftwerk II is utterly brilliant 👍... both my high voltage and low voltage versions are still performing exceptionally well... I'm seriously considering ordering another couple in the next 6 months😁😁

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  • 2 months later...
On 13/07/2021 at 2:14 AM, Duke40 said:

- So impressed, after only 2 days of having the Kraftwerk II Dual in my system, that I made another order (to power my Modem/Router which requires 15V ), this time for a Kraftwerk II HV.

 

Did that addition make a difference, in your opinion? 

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2 hours ago, Grizaudio said:
On 13/07/2021 at 2:14 AM, Duke40 said:

- So impressed, after only 2 days of having the Kraftwerk II Dual in my system, that I made another order (to power my Modem/Router which requires 15V ), this time for a Kraftwerk II HV.

 

Did that addition make a difference, in your opinion?

 

 

@Grizaudio Yes.  

 

TL:DR; Significant difference. Especially on switches (EtherREGENs, MikroTik), Roon Nucleus, Router. Will get some more Kraftwerk II once completing my home network over next month or two.

 

Verbose version;

Though my network setup has changed a little since then and I did buy the Kraftwerk II HV from Gieseler, as well as getting another Kraftwerk II HV from the SNA classifieds. Also, some changes, was using a Billion 8900 R3 as a combined Modem/Router when I last posted in this thread, now have the Billion dedicated to just Modem duties, with Firewalla Gold as Router.

 

Kraftwerk II Dual now powers: 

Firewalla Gold Router

MikroTik CRS305 10Gbe switch (to provide optical fibre connection to both of my EtherREGENs).

 

Now also have two Kraftwerk II HV which I have been trying on different devices.

 

My experience over listening tests since I last posted, is the order from greatest/most significant (1) improvement for deploying the Kraftwerk II Dual and HV versions over 6 different bits of network gear are:

(1) EtherREGEN (for audio). EtherREGEN benefits were doubled when powered by the Kraftwerk II. 

(1) Roon Nucleus ... tied 1st place.

(3) MikroTik CRS305 switch

(4) Firewalla Gold Router, EtherREGEN (for video) ... tied.

(6) Modem

 

As a point of reference, found similar results/ranking preferences when using an UpTone JS-2 (if the devices required 12V and most of my network gear does, apart from the modem), though I have decided to standardise and only use Gieseler Kraftwerk II LPS.  

 

Though I get different levels of improvement on different gear, have decided to just fully power the whole lot with Kraftwerk II (once my network changes settle down over next month or two, still have gear coming in).

 

Working on some other networking mods/optimisation ATM, then will get another couple of Gieseler Kraftwerk II later this year. With my current network configuration I need another 2 or 3 LPS and the Kraftwerk II both surprised and delighted me in the significance of impact (especially on those items listed in the first sentence of my post).

 

I really like the Kraftwerk II Dual, for both its performance and value.  Hope that helps.

Edited by Duke40
typo's
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3 hours ago, Grizaudio said:

Are there any technical measurements for these power supplies which I can view. Cheers.

There are snippets..  At the bottom of the first post, there is a photo of a scope which shows the impact of adding a the Hammond choke

https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/328602-gieseler-kraftwerk-ii-psu-official-release/

 

Noise levels around around 30 - 40 uv

https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/509501-bluesound-node-2i-power-supply-upgrade-review/?do=findComment&comment=5859220&_rid=161413

 

Beyond that, you have to ask @Gieseler Audio.  He is most approachable.

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2 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

There are snippets..  At the bottom of the first post, there is a photo of a scope which shows the impact of adding a the Hammond choke

https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/328602-gieseler-kraftwerk-ii-psu-official-release/

 

Noise levels around around 30 - 40 uv

https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/509501-bluesound-node-2i-power-supply-upgrade-review/?do=findComment&comment=5859220&_rid=161413

 

Beyond that, you have to ask @Gieseler Audio.  He is most approachable.

 

Thanks, most appreciated. I find it difficult to compare power supplies without measurements. 

Without noise/ripple, and voltage stability measurements, observations are totally subjective. 

Yes I know this is the Hifi game. 

 

Thanks again. 

 

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Note I also posted this reply in the Bluesound PSU upgrade thread but it might be handy to give everyone a clear picture of the design philosophy behind my Kraftwerk II PSU's.

 

All regulators generate noise & in the case of the Kraftwerk II Dual which uses a rather expensive Linear Technology 

device the noise level is 40uV RMS measured over the range of 10Hz to 100kHz at a load of 500ma.

I have a new HP micro volt meter designed specifically for PSU noise measurement so I can recheck the KW2 Dual but it won't be for a few days as I'm busy with orders at the moment.

However it is important to understand that ultra low noise does not guarantee the best sound from a PSU.

In fact when powering audio devices with an external DC PSU the input regulator noise is not very relevant because 

the input voltage never directly powers the internal semiconductor devices.

There are lots of additional internal regulators (1.8v, 3.3v, 5v, 9v etc) & the noise level from those devices is what the DAC chips, op amps etc are exposed to.

In the case of a DAC chips VREF voltage the noise level is very significant so that's why in all my DAC's I use Analogue Devices ADM7150 regulators which have an output noise level of 1uV.

What is important for a external linear PSU is good mains hash rejection, low ripple & low output impedance.

It is in those areas that that I give top priority to in my Kraftwerk PSU.

 

1. All my PSU's use EI core external transformers.

These have much lower bandwidth than the usual toroidal type & being external the sensitive PSU electronics are not subjected to magnetic wave interference.

 

2. All Kw2's use a active asynchronous mosfet bridge rectifier.

These generate virtually no EMI which is the opposite to the usual diode bridge which does generate EMI & diode switching noise.

 

3. All Kw2's use a large iron core choke in a CLC arrangement which massively reduces the ripple going into the regulator.

This makes it's job a lot easier & solves having to use a discreet regulator which is normally required for best performance.

4. Finally the use of top quality parts like Nichicon Gold Tune filter capacitors, Linear Technology regulators etc.

 

So summing up the important qualities for a external audio PSU are low output impedance, good mains born interference rejection, low ripple, reasonable low output noise & good quality parts.

I think the new Kraftwerk II fit the bill nicely in all those areas.

Phew! 
Sorry for the long reply & I hope that paints a clearer picture of what a good audio PSU should be.

 

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1 hour ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Note I also posted this reply in the Bluesound PSU upgrade thread but it might be handy to give everyone a clear picture of the design philosophy behind my Kraftwerk II PSU's.

 

All regulators generate noise & in the case of the Kraftwerk II Dual which uses a rather expensive Linear Technology 

device the noise level is 40uV RMS measured over the range of 10Hz to 100kHz at a load of 500ma.

I have a new HP micro volt meter designed specifically for PSU noise measurement so I can recheck the KW2 Dual but it won't be for a few days as I'm busy with orders at the moment.

However it is important to understand that ultra low noise does not guarantee the best sound from a PSU.

In fact when powering audio devices with an external DC PSU the input regulator noise is not very relevant because 

the input voltage never directly powers the internal semiconductor devices.

There are lots of additional internal regulators (1.8v, 3.3v, 5v, 9v etc) & the noise level from those devices is what the DAC chips, op amps etc are exposed to.

In the case of a DAC chips VREF voltage the noise level is very significant so that's why in all my DAC's I use Analogue Devices ADM7150 regulators which have an output noise level of 1uV.

What is important for a external linear PSU is good mains hash rejection, low ripple & low output impedance.

It is in those areas that that I give top priority to in my Kraftwerk PSU.

 

1. All my PSU's use EI core external transformers.

These have much lower bandwidth than the usual toroidal type & being external the sensitive PSU electronics are not subjected to magnetic wave interference.

 

2. All Kw2's use a active asynchronous mosfet bridge rectifier.

These generate virtually no EMI which is the opposite to the usual diode bridge which does generate EMI & diode switching noise.

 

3. All Kw2's use a large iron core choke in a CLC arrangement which massively reduces the ripple going into the regulator.

This makes it's job a lot easier & solves having to use a discreet regulator which is normally required for best performance.

4. Finally the use of top quality parts like Nichicon Gold Tune filter capacitors, Linear Technology regulators etc.

 

So summing up the important qualities for a external audio PSU are low output impedance, good mains born interference rejection, low ripple, reasonable low output noise & good quality parts.

I think the new Kraftwerk II fit the bill nicely in all those areas.

Phew! 
Sorry for the long reply & I hope that paints a clearer picture of what a good audio PSU should be.

 

 

Thanks for that reply Clay, I appreciate the detail provided. 

I sent this question as a PM, but it may be applicable to others looking at your supplies. 

 

Is their a performance difference between the three power supply versions other than voltage selection & amp output? 

For instance, is their any benefit (I.e. Better performance, lower ripple, etc) using say a fixed, or variable single channel v's the dual output design, if I had multiple devices to power? 

Many thanks. 

 

Edited by Grizaudio
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  The  Kraftwerk II fixed & the Dual version use the same overall design so performance is the same.

However some of the fixed output versions use different regulators, ie the very high current ones & the high voltage ones ie 19v 24v.

Those  have slightly higher noise as they don't use the usual Linear Technology one that is in the Dual.

With the fixed output models they are fine tuned to suit the output voltage but it is more about keeping case temperatures down.

Any variable output linear PSU is tricky in terms of thermal management due to the more voltage the regulator has to drop the greater the heat produced.

For the Dual at 5v & 7v output there is a rear panel switch which adds a second pre regulator.

This helps spread the heat more evenly across the chassis & the bonus of the second regulator is even greater power supply rejection ratio. 

 

Cheers

Clay 

Edited by Gieseler Audio
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Power Supply received. Super fast 1 day delivery to Melbourne. ;) 

Initial impressions are very positive. So I'm a happy buyer! 

The KW2 Dual has definitely lifted the Motu performance, in my active setup V's the OEM 15v 1amp supply. 

I have 5vdc powering my Ubuntu RPI4, 12v powering my Motu. 

 

Clay has been a gentlemen and super helpful too, he did a custom tweak on the 5v side, enlarging the choke free of charge to reduce heat for my application.  

I will say, the case looks great in hand, great quality and weight.  

IMG_2287.thumb.JPG.f150f8e5b49d6c2715b89e705744548c.JPG

Edited by Grizaudio
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  • 2 weeks later...

I just wanted to provide a quick subjective update. 

After having the KW2 Dual in my system for a week or so, I decided to compare my RPI4/Ubuntu Roon endpoint, being powered by the KW2 Dual V's an iFi power x 5vdc.  

I had already well confirmed the KW2 Dual was doing a fine job on my Moti MK5 DAC, so I was satisfied there.  

 

The KW2 stayed powering my Motu MK5 lite, so the comparison was purely limited to the RPI endpoint. 

 

Well I can safely say the KW2 is a significant improvement over the iFi power X.

I was honestly quite surprised by the delta, it was not expected.  

 

Its difficult to describe without using clichés (which I like to avoid), but the KW2 powering the RPI4 provides a very noticeably (and welcome) change in presentation tone and openness. 

Presentation is noticeably richer, soundstage becomes more open, and tonality is far more relaxed and natural. 

The iFi sounds more tense and on edge. Tone is really the biggest win. 

 

Switching back to the iFi, the SMPS definitely pulled soundstage in and more centred, sounding more 'mid' focused and lean. 

Presentation tone suffered considerably.

 

So its two thumbs up for the KW2 Dual powering my RPI4.  

 

 

 

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@Gieseler Audio

I'm about to purchase a super capacitor board for my RPI from Ian Canada, to play with. The KW2 will power the unit.   

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/raspberry-pi-and-other-sbc-accessories/ian-canada-conditionerpi-ultra-capacitor-conditioner-board-for-raspberry-pi-p-14596.html

Have you thought about installing super capacitors directly into your supplies? Benefits? Cons? 

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  • 3 months later...

Good news for people who want to drive an Intel NUC plus another device like an external USB card. Clay now offers a high current version of the Kraftwerk II Dual, with 1 port capable of 12V 5A (drives  Intel NUC 8i5BEH) while the 2nd port delivers 3A.  Voltage on both ports can be adjusted to 5/7/9/12 V.  Note that Clay suggests running 5V at no more than 1.5A because of heat. 

 

Had a number of Kraftwerk II LPS but could not move to a Dual until this new version was conceived.  Things are now simpler and neater with 1 less transformer, 1 less box and fewer cables. The case looks good and helps with heat dissipation; it runs slightly warm. Also using upgraded DC Canare Quad cables.

 

And there was a slight improvement in SQ!  👍 

 

The web site will soon be updated with this high current option and the new DC cable. It would not surprise me if both become best sellers.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hey folks, I just posted a review of Clay's Kraftwerk II this morning as part of a broader look at the potential benefits of linear power supplies. I hope it's helpful:

 

 

And, to put my money where my mouth is, Clay has just shipped me my third Kraftwerk II that I've purchased. The two in the review are in regular use in my system so this third one will be used for testing any devices I review that have 5-12V DC input.

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