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The people at the helm of these platforms are not silly. Especially in the case of Apple. My guess is they have seen the backlash against TIDAL, combined with its instability at the top (ownership/man

At no extra cost. This is game changing.   TIDAL, in my personal opinion, must be struggling to hang on. You only have to see any post on social media about TIDAL and the responses are all n

This is getting interesting    https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/05/apple-music-announces-spatial-audio-and-lossless-audio/

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At no extra cost. This is game changing.

 

TIDAL, in my personal opinion, must be struggling to hang on. You only have to see any post on social media about TIDAL and the responses are all negative.

Qobuz has a solid reputation, so still has a good loyal following. People are happy to pay when that exists and when this is 'trust'.

 

Meanwhile, Spotify needs to fast track it's Hi-Fi offer. Apple Music will gain much market share in the coming months.


As you say, it's getting interesting indeed. I suspect there's only room for a couple, not a half dozen.

 

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Posted (edited)

Berry innaressing.

 

This bit caught my eye: "For the true audiophile, Apple Music also offers Hi-Resolution Lossless all the way up to 24 bit at 192 kHz."

 

--Geoff

Edited by hired goon
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This may be what gets me over the line for streaming. Hoping it allows streaming of my ALAC tracks that aren’t in Apple’s library. At the moment I believe they only stream in AAC when playing the cloud based versions. 

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As soon as I could get AirPlay2 on a Raspberry Pi, I'd think of a shift to this.  It's the only viable multi room solution outside of Roon and Sonos, but without the limitations of either (Roon - few streaming services, Sonos - no high bitrate audio).

 

Also, I can't see MSB supporting Airplay2 anytime soon, so that creates some issues for my main renderer unless I decide to hang my DAC off a Mac instead.

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The people at the helm of these platforms are not silly. Especially in the case of Apple. My guess is they have seen the backlash against TIDAL, combined with its instability at the top (ownership/management), along with the perceived mistrust, and have used this opportunity to strike. In business, if you see an opportunity to take out one player you go for it and I think this is what we are witnessing here. It's a highly calculated and strategic play in my opinion.

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This is really exciting. Always preferred Apple Music interface over tidal. Given that I have all apple products, this is a no brainer. 
 

Tidal has lost my subscription. 

Already have Apple Music through a family plan anyway!

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Airplay2 seems limited at 24/48 kHz. It will be interesting if this changes with the release of this high-res capability.

 

I imagine it's hardware limited hence the call out for an external DAC if you want the 24/192 signals from Apple Music.

13 minutes ago, Marc said:

The people at the helm of these platforms are not silly. Especially in the case of Apple. My guess is they have seen the backlash against TIDAL, combined with its instability at the top (ownership/management), along with the perceived mistrust, and have used this opportunity to strike. In business, if you see an opportunity to take out one player you go for it and I think this is what we are witnessing here. It's a highly calculated and strategic play in my opinion.

The and the fact that Spotify have intimated that they are bringing CD quality streaming and were seeking to charge for it. I bet that charging decision is now likely to be reviewed in light of Apple's moves. First mover advantage is a *****.

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21 minutes ago, Marc said:

The people at the helm of these platforms are not silly. Especially in the case of Apple. My guess is they have seen the backlash against TIDAL, combined with its instability at the top (ownership/management), along with the perceived mistrust, and have used this opportunity to strike. In business, if you see an opportunity to take out one player you go for it and I think this is what we are witnessing here. It's a highly calculated and strategic play in my opinion.


I think you are spot on. Apple have probably sensed an opportunity and getting in with lossless before Spotify is a smart move. 
 

looks like Amazon has responded by dropping their HD price

 

https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/9573513/amazon-music-hd-unlimited-hi-fi-price-streaming

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So, the choice is widening - Apple, Amazon, Deezer, Qobuz, Spotify lossless to come, and Tidal seemingly bringing up the rear.  We are not and never have been an Apple household and we don't do much anymore on Amazon (except buy Kindle books) so I think we'll be going with Qobuz.  Determining factors are that outside of the specialised streamers, Qobuz does Classical best and they also pay their Artists more than any other service.  We'll see if they lower their subscription rates to compete.  I'm sure Tidal will have to, and even that will likely not save them.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, brumby said:

So, the choice is widening - Apple, Amazon, Deezer, Qobuz, Spotify lossless to come, and Tidal seemingly bringing up the rear.  We are not and never have been an Apple household and we don't do much anymore on Amazon (except buy Kindle books) so I think we'll be going with Qobuz.  Determining factors are that outside of the specialised streamers, Qobuz does Classical best and they also pay their Artists more than any other service.  We'll see if they lower their subscription rates to compete.  I'm sure Tidal will have to, and even that will likely not save them.

 

 

It’s tricky, I was so happy to get out of iTunes and onto Roon. I don’t really want to go back. 
Maybe the iTunes (or Apple Music or whatever it’s called these days) experience has improved since I last used it. Will need to check it out

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Apple Music is a frustrating app on your phone, less so on a desktop. I just wish they get to the point where you can stream direct to the endpoint rather than via your mobile device. It's sort of like watching TV through your remote control the way it works today.

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Just now, BugPowderDust said:

Apple Music is a frustrating app on your phone, less so on a desktop. I just wish they get to the point where you can stream direct to the endpoint rather than via your mobile device. It's sort of like watching TV through your remote control the way it works today.

Oh dear. That’s not what I wanted to hear

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said:

It’s tricky, I was so happy to get out of iTunes and onto Roon. I don’t really want to go back. 
Maybe the iTunes (or Apple Music or whatever it’s called these days) experience has improved since I last used it. Will need to check it out

 

I'm struggling to understand why Roon couldn't integrate Apple Music.   There might be a reason, but I don't see it.

 

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/applemusicapi

Edited by davewantsmoore
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2 hours ago, cassmobian said:

 Hoping it allows streaming of my ALAC tracks that aren’t in Apple’s library.

 

If there is not-broken integration of local libraries ..... I would strongly consider the move of my local library (to ALAC)

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Posted (edited)
Quote

1.  Due to the large file sizes and bandwidth needed for Lossless and Hi-Res Lossless Audio, subscribers will need to opt in to the experience. Hi-Res Lossless also requires external equipment, such as a USB digital-to-analog converter (DAC).

 

The hi res bit has this "disclaimer" ... and no mention of a "price tier".

 

Hmmm... Does this mean that "Hi-Res" is no extra costs ?!?!? 

 

EDIT:   Seems like it.   No extra cost for "hi-res".

 

Edited by davewantsmoore
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9 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

I'm struggling to understand why Roon couldn't integrate Apple Music.   There might be a reason, but I don't see it.

 

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/applemusicapi

 

From what I have read, the Apple API does not allow the deep integration that TIDAL and Qobuz do, therefore Roon's stance is they won't integrate it if it's not native and intuitive. Apple, reportedly, seems unwilling to budge on this, and so does Roon understandably.

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The rumour mill has been turning for quite a while now; however, today, Apple has officially announced that Apple Music will support lossless audio, as well as Spatial Audio powered by Dolby Atmos.

View the full article

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1 hour ago, sir sanders zingmore said:


I think you are spot on. Apple have probably sensed an opportunity and getting in with lossless before Spotify is a smart move. 
 

looks like Amazon has responded by dropping their HD price

 

https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/9573513/amazon-music-hd-unlimited-hi-fi-price-streaming

 

The problem is, Amazon Music HD is still not available in Australia? 

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I think I'll be hanging out for Spotify Hifi but they do need to pull their finger out and it needs to be a no-cost upgrade to the end user. I use Spotify Duo with my wife and it's good value. If the iTunes Family plan turns out to be better value I would probably switch.

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pretty happy for my tidal to go... actually been using apple music more and more as have my collection is stored in their library as alac anyways ...

 

i have a feeling apples anoucement is really to counter spotify.... we have a free spotify account... but really on for back ground music... hardly ever do we use it...

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Thinking about this more, with Airpods Pro 3 around the corner (weeks?), I think the timing is more to do with the new model being able to do hi-res, and them having a music service to supply them with the necessary hi-res music. Should they release a new 'phones model that can do hi-res before their own music service can, people would seek out and commit to Qobuz and others. 

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I guess no streamer support Apple Music integrated except Sonos? I don't really want to use AirPlay for critical listening?

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I am an iPhone user, own an Apple TV & have an Macbook Air on the way, so am in the ecosystem. I used Apple Music for a while (streaming part of the app), compared to Spotify, was not a fan, so have gone back to using Spotify for music streaming. I just find the app to be much better to use, music suggestions & catalog better as well.

 

I do however use the Apple Music app on my phone, for music transferred over from my HDD collection. 

 

Apple will need to enable a new BT codec like LDAC to allow for hi-res streaming through headphones, off the phone as well.

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From: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/62961-article-apple-music-lossless-high-resolution-and-dolby-atmos-announced/?do=findComment&comment=1133780 

 

"Apple has confirmed to The Verge that lossless audio is exclusive to Apple Music and thus subscription-only. The company won’t offer music purchases in lossless quality, nor will there be any way to upgrade owned tracks to lossless with the paid iTunes Match service."

 

https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/17/22440090/apple-music-lossless-audio-dolby-atmos-support-audio

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24 minutes ago, TDX said:

I guess no streamer support Apple Music integrated except Sonos? I don't really want to use AirPlay for critical listening?

i use the blue sound node with apple music... but its not really for any critical listening...

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Posted (edited)

In addition to my post above - Whatever Apple do with the AAC codec & Sony do with their DSEE HX supposed up-scaling of audio quality is damn good to my ears, so am not so bothered with Hi-Res at the minute. 

 

Obviously everyone will hear things differently & genre of music plays a pretty big part.

Edited by Jovan.s1987
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7 minutes ago, betty boop said:

i use the blue sound node with apple music... but its not really for any critical listening...

I didn't know blue sound support apple music integration, this will be quite good already. I checked Auralic, it doesn't support Apple Music streaming.

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Just now, TDX said:

I didn't know blue sound support apple music integration, this will be quite good already. I checked Auralic, it doesn't support Apple Music streaming.

It's not really fully integrated but Bluesound devices support Airplay 2 which is apparently bit-perfect.

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30 minutes ago, Jovan.s1987 said:

AAC

 

There's no inherent reason why AAC would provide an audibly different result to "lossless".    Given generous bitrate and careful encoding (which Apple, would not doubt, pay close attention to)

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39 minutes ago, TDX said:

I didn't know blue sound support apple music integration, this will be quite good already. I checked Auralic, it doesn't support Apple Music streaming.

as peer chigurh it came with the 2i model...you fire up the apple music app... then select blusound node as device to stream with ... thats it control all from apple music app. as mentioned i only for non critical music listening ...but if move to lossless with apple might expand for me as rest of my collection is that way ...

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17 minutes ago, betty boop said:

as peer chigurh it came with the 2i model...you fire up the apple music app... then select blusound node as device to stream with ... thats it control all from apple music app. as mentioned i only for non critical music listening ...but if move to lossless with apple might expand for me as rest of my collection is that way ...

That way is probably just via airplay2 which node2i supports. Let’s see what apple wants to do. 

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3 minutes ago, TDX said:

That way is probably just via airplay2 which node2i supports. Let’s see what apple wants to do. 

it does seem to work fine... not sure what else apple wants to do about it. doubt be much else given it does work :) 

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34 minutes ago, Jovan.s1987 said:

For anyone that was hopeful of being able to stream Apple Music through wireless headphones, won't be possible... for the moment.

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/17/airpods-apple-music-lossless-audio/

 

 

Isn't this true for most Bluetooth headphones used with anyones lossless streaming as well.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

 

 

Isn't this true for most Bluetooth headphones used with anyones lossless streaming as well.

Sony's LDAC codec is the highest I know of, which is some 4 times higher than Apples AAC. Need an Android or Sony device to get LDAC though.

Edited by Jovan.s1987
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20 minutes ago, betty boop said:

it does seem to work fine... not sure what else apple wants to do about it. doubt be much else given it does work :) 

I'm hoping they come into the audiophile world and provide some decent equipments (at least a streamer?);) 

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16 minutes ago, TDX said:

I'm hoping they come into the audiophile world and provide some decent equipments (at least a streamer?);) 

haha ... they seem more consumer land than audiophile... but never know i guess :)  they have their appleTV already too... but again thats something different... more AV than audiophile 2ch :) 

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