andyr Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Grant Slack said: My Guru vs Your Guru — so this is where turntable threads go to die. People always choose the guru they follow, Grant. My suggestion was that every utterance from said guru shouldn't be regarded as gospel truth. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 People choose gurus, not to worship and follow, per se, but to gather and bottle up their utterances which happen to concur with their own views and are then released during ( or when forming ) a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 C'mon, @rantan ... people thought Jim Jones was a guru - his followers worshipped him so much that they drank the 'kool aid' he gave them. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumptown Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 55 minutes ago, muon* said: elieve the test in the OP proves a thing The test isn't supposed to prove anything. It's just an interesting experiment. The unexpected result indicates that the topic may be worthy of further consideration. If the Roksan had whooped the technics we could probably comfortably say "expensive turntables are an improvement over cheapies" because the result is confirming our expectations. The result was contrary to expectations it's worth thinking about further, rather than outright dismissing the suggestion that hifi-fi tables aren't audibly better than mid-fi tables. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 10, 2021 Volunteer Share Posted May 10, 2021 I have a feeling that this thread is just going round in circles. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emesbee Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I have a feeling that this thread is just going round in circles. Just like your avatar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumptown Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 Yeah I'm pretty sure it ran its course about 3 pages ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crtexcnndrm99 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 I accidentally bid on a not so cheap stainless steel platter mat for my Lenco build at 1AM last night, so this question is a bit taboo right now That said, seems like too much time spent on questions that are irrelevant when you could be listening to muuuusic instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 minute ago, crtexcnndrm99 said: That said, seems like too much time spent on questions that are irrelevant when you could be listening to muuuusic instead! Are you suggesting the OP asked an irrelevant question in his original post, Ash? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumptown Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 I once got a stainless steel and aluminium platter mat laser cut in search of higher speed stability. It didn't make any measurable difference. Looks cool tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crtexcnndrm99 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, andyr said: Are you suggesting the OP asked an irrelevant question in his original post, Ash? Andy Now that doesn’t sound like me, Andy 2 minutes ago, gumptown said: I once got a stainless steel and aluminium platter mat laser cut in search of higher speed stability. It didn't make any measurable difference. Looks cool tho You’re killing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, gumptown said: It's just an interesting experiment. The unexpected result indicates that the topic may be worthy of further consideration. I find it neither interesting nor unexpected, nor worthy of anything. But if you find it all of those things, that's for yourself. Edited May 10, 2021 by muon* typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, gumptown said: I once got a stainless steel and aluminium platter mat laser cut in search of higher speed stability. It didn't make any measurable difference. Looks cool tho You actually thought that would lead to higher speed stability? I'm out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumptown Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, muon* said: You actually thought that would lead to higher speed stability? In theory higher platter mass should increase the inertia of the platter, absorbing any variances in speed. As a $20 experiment, worst case scenario was I'd get a cool platter mat Edited May 10, 2021 by gumptown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muon* Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) Deleted Never mind, I said I was out so I better stand by that. Edited May 10, 2021 by muon* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumptown Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 I wouldn't expect it to make a difference on a DD turntable, but I was getting some other stuff cut. and $20 is pocket change for a fun experiment and a cool looking platter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted May 10, 2021 Volunteer Share Posted May 10, 2021 25 minutes ago, gumptown said: I once got a stainless steel and aluminium platter mat laser cut in search of higher speed stability. It didn't make any measurable difference. Looks cool tho Surely speed stability is an engineering problem (and not a particularly hard one either)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumptown Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 Speed stability wasn't actually a "problem" (measured 0.025%), but why not experiment with it anyway? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekyboy Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, gumptown said: In theory higher platter mass should increase the inertia of the platter, absorbing any variances in speed. You’re taking the P1SS, right? Edited May 10, 2021 by cheekyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekyboy Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, muon* said: Deleted Never mind, I said I was out so I better stand by that. I’ve been avoiding getting involved in this thread, as it’s the kind of thread that normally gets me in strife with someone! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Slack Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 hours ago, muon* said: I play CD's and not records these days and I still don't believe the test in the OP proves a thing, or does anything apart than providing a path to confirmation bias for some folk. And what is the path to actually forming an evidence-based opinion on the subject, @muon*? That’ll straighten out the ‘circle work’... cheers Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP1 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, gumptown said: If the Roksan had whooped the technics we could probably comfortably say "expensive turntables are an improvement over cheapies" I don't think so. The test is shockingly poor on so many levels. Consider this 1. Turntables were NOT compared in that test. What was compared were the turntable/ tonearm/ cartridge /phono stage combinations which were all different. If you want to compare turntables, you MUST use identical cartridges, phono stages and tonearms . Make no mistake, the combination of arm, cartridge, and phono stage will make a far greater impact on the sound than the actual turntable itself. That is without getting in to questionable digital transfer using the most basic ADC's which have no place in a hifi test. 2. I have zero faith that any of the turntables were set up correctly. In these tests you must specify which VTF was used, the equipment used to measure the VTF, the VTA used and how it was set. For example, was this method used ( Its only way to be dead sure and eliminate variables) https://www.analogplanet.com/content/how-use-usb-digital-microscope-set-92-degree-stylus-rake-angle-sra 3. Roksan is not an expensive high end turntable . It was pointless selecting it as it is not representative at the high end. It would be useful for comparison against Technics as a belt drive vs direct drive thing but the digital processing would preserve the bass and dynamics of the direct drive but not so much the finer nuances that some belt drive turntables are famous for. A better test would be the Technics SL1200 against a Technics SP10 Mk3 4. The so called Needle Drop test is so badly flawed I can only conclude Archamado doesn't have a clue about vinyl record reproduction. He has demonstrated more knowledge of the subject matter in some other blog posts. but this one is a big miss. If people want comfort that their cheap turntables are are the best that can be had, good luck to them. But if they want knowledge on how the turntables actually perform against each other, look elsewhere. Edited May 10, 2021 by TP1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP1 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 20 minutes ago, cheekyboy said: You’re taking the P155, right? I think he is referring to the flywheel effect. However additional weight can cause other issues for TT not designed for it. Pioneer Exclusive used heavy platters with most of the weight balanced around the circumference to amplify the effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, cheekyboy said: I’ve been avoiding getting involved in this thread, as it’s the kind of thread that normally gets me in strife with someone! I mirror your thoughts Keith, but as this seems indeed to be on an endless, fruitless, meandering loop - thought I'd offer this titbit: Having updated my TT to something I'm in no hurry to change, and spent way more than l ever planned to on deck, arm and cart - with the correct combo it is remarkable what you can achieve! Lot of people buy a TT with matching (often average), arm and a $50 cart then complain it ain't no better than digital. Weakest link applies in most cases, and this seems to be overlooked. I compared 2 different interconnects tonight with my son, who is a professional musician - and switched between them on same passage of music. He struggled to tell them apart, while I could clearly hear changes in depth and width of the soundstage. I have spent a lot more time , being a lot older lol- to tune into small nuances while he obviously listens in a different way. So what are we to draw from this? To some people, it really isn't worth spending much time or money on equipment. In that case - might as well stick to digital! Runs for cover. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekyboy Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 minute ago, TP1 said: I think he is referring to the flywheel effect. You reckon?........................I think that's being generous! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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