Need advice on a new listening room / theatre room set up

[roshansubo]

Hi All,

I am going to build a house within next few weeks which includes a media room. Initial plan was for a listening room but due to pressure from kids had to change the initial plan to use it for both a listening + a theatre room.

I have attached the plan below.- 4 x 5 m room with 2.95m high ceiling.

Had to include windows at the back of the room  according to the master plan but will cover them internally with absorbers / diffusers.

Entry door in original plan - 2 cavity sliding doors - but planned to change to 1m wide single cavity door.

There was no back stage for theatre chairs in finial plan but had to add that as going to use as a theatre room.

My AVR is - Anthem MRX - 1120 - [ Bought here ]

According to that I have drawn the speaker locations. Thought to locate Front left & right speakers 1m away from side walls and 1m from the back wall.

 

My main problem is I am living 1000km away from a major city and can not find an experienced theatre installers here.

 

 

• I really appreciate any advice that you can give me on the set up.
• Any idea about the dimensions of the back stage ? And what material to be used ? Wooden / concrete
• What flooring ?
• Do I have to lay the speaker wires at the same time the electrician doing the wiring ? If so what kind / brand of wires to be used ?
• Any advice on power points ?
• For music listening I am using B&W 803 D3 speakers. Is it worth to use different speakers for movies / theatre use ?
• Any Ideas for the sliding cavity door ?

 

Thanks in advance.

Roshan

[Guest niterida]

Do you have enough room for 2 rows of seats - 5m is not a very long room. How many people do you expect to be in there most of the time ? You may be better off with just one row and then bar seating behind it.  I have 6.25m long room and have bar seating - 2 rows would have fitted but bar seating was cheape.

Also with the rear seating against the back wall and 2 subs in front the rear listeners will have horrible boomy bass response. Both subs on the front wall only works for single row of seating. 2 subs work best in opposite corners or mid point of opposite walls - or something like that - I will try and find the White Paper for Harman Kardon and double check that. But if you can afford it, the more subs the better.

 

Do you have enough width for side surrounds - you do not want them blasting into the outside listeners ears. 3 seater Home Theatre recliners with arms between each seat will not leave a lot of room on the sides. I use a 'normal' 3 seater couch (which can actually seat 4 or 5 kids) which is a lot narrower than my old 3 seater theatre seats. I have a 4.3m wide room and found it just wide enough for the theatre seating but side surrounds were definitely too close.

I suggest you draw your seating to scale and see just how much room you don't have.

In that size room I would actually just do a 5.1.4 setup. 7.1 will give an improvement in ambience and a slightly better sound bubble but in my back-to-back testing in my room I would rate it about 5% improvement and now that I run 5.1 I don't even notice it. direct sound effects like bullets whizzing around were exactly the same between 5. and 7.1.  And this will remove the issue of surrounds blasting into someones ears since they will be closer to the back corners rather than on the side walls.

 

Front L&R speaker location will depend on the speaker - some work well further away from walls, some don't so don't fix their location.

 

For a dedicated, light controlled listening/theatre room I would definitely do a DIY Spandex Acoustically Transparent (AT) screen. Spandex is the best material you can use for an AT screen and is cheap as chips. Do a search on AVSForum.com for more info and see here for mine : https://www.avsforum.com/threads/spnadex-screen-using-wire-frame.3050750/

An AT screen allows you to put the Centre speaker behind for ideal positioning just like a real theatre. and this also allows you to run a centre speaker that is identical to your L&R, which is the Dolby recommendation and will give you a better soundstage up front.

Dolby actually recommend all speakers (including your Atmos heights) to be identical and full range. Most people can't do this for budget or installation reasons but since you have a dedicated room I think you should aim for this. I have all identical speakers in my room and it was a huge improvement over my previous setup of matched (but not identical) Mordaunt Short speakers.  I now run Wharfedale Pro PA speakers and highly recommend looking at this option as Pro / PA speakers are cheap, efficient and work superbly for HT - check these threads : https://www.avsforum.com/threads/behringer-eurolive-b215xl-15-2-way-as-l-r-mains.1519940/  and https://www.avsforum.com/threads/behringer-b215xl-and-b212xl-speakers-for-home-theater.3142514/ If money is an issue (I doubt it given you have purchased an MRX1120 ) then you could consider the latest Behringer 8" PA speakers which are just $75 (or thereabouts) from DJ City - I haven't heard them but for $75 could give one of them a go and see if you like it.

 

You want to build any riser for the seats from wood. You can the use it as a bass trap or even better you can install some cheap 12" (or bigger) bass drivers and use it too give some real Tactile Response - check out these 2 threads : https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-hideaway-theater.2991522/  and https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-tactile-response-thread-for-bass.3081780/

I have 3 x 2nd hand 15" Clarion car subs ($150 total) built into a mini riser (about $50) and this gives me unbelievable TR and makes music and movies so much more immersive and enjoyable - and all for just over $200.

 

And don't forget about acoustic treatment for the room - this will possibly give you the best bang-for-buck improvement in sound quality. Its not cheap unless you DIY but is well worth it. I built 3 absorption panels for my first reflection points on the 2 side walls and the ceiling and it almost completely killed the slap echo I had and made the overall sound much clearer. I used 75mm ceiling insulation and 70mm pine and some cloth for a total of about $100.

 

 

 

[WasM]

Generally agree with @niterida comments.

Room width at 4m plus riser steps will generally allow 3 theatre type seats/recliners.

Room length at 5m will not give much room for 2nd row couch - you don't want the couch to be directly against the rear wall, unless you don't mind compromised sound in 2nd row.

If you want to push the 2nd row forward closer into the 'surround sound bubble' this will drive the front row forward, meaning your front seats will be much closer to front screen/TV. The front seats will end up closer to the centre of the room, maybe just behind your front row atmos ceiling speakers.

To answer yours Q's:

• I really appreciate any advice that you can give me on the set up. 
  • I've found 7 channel surround superior to 5, I've found atmos x 4 is better than 2. I've got a 6.5m L x 4.5m W room though
  • Go with 2 subs, allow wiring such you can place 2 up front, or 1 front 1 rear. You won't know which option until you know your sub/s but at least you have planned for it.
  • TV size (assuming you have not mentioned projector) - get some perspective of size. 16x9 material may look big, 21x9 material might look small.
  • If its a TV or non AT projector screen centre speaker needs careful consideration to placement. 
• Any idea about the dimensions of the back stage ? And what material to be used ? Wooden / concrete
  • My build is concrete, I've had no hassles, no rattles
  • Get some ideas and preferences for your couch/recliners/chairs, powered. Consider the size - I would go with wider room to 4.5m, if you can.
  • Riser should be at least 280-300mm high
  • Place power points and any other connection points on the riser (eg network cabling).
• What flooring ?
  • Carpet for better cinema sound
• Do I have to lay the speaker wires at the same time the electrician doing the wiring ? If so what kind / brand of wires to be used ?
  • Yes prelay these in wall/conduit to a brush plate or cavity plate
  • 12 gauge or thicker, i'm brand agnostic. Your two channel preferences may drive you to choose better cables.
• Any advice on power points ?
  • Where are you placing AV equipment? cable everything back to this location, add more power points here.
  • Consider power points for bass shakers, phone/tablet/controllers, even light switches. Are you going to stand up and walk to turn lights on/off or use a controller of some sort?
• For music listening I am using B&W 803 D3 speakers. Is it worth to use different speakers for movies / theatre use ?
  • I would say this comes down to preference. Cinema speakers usually use a waveguide to get wider dispersion to 'throw' the sound as evenly as possible to cover more of the seating area. 
  • It won't fit unless you build it into the room and this may compromise your 2 ch enjoyment.
  • Try to find surround speakers that tonally match the B&Ws. 
• Any Ideas for the sliding cavity door ?
  • Go with a solid core door and solid wall, the cavity and door will rattle
  • Apply treatment to the walls - google

[BugPowderDust]

I agree with much above, but I would also suggest if you are pouring a slab, don’t be afraid to put some conduit in for cabling.
 

This lets you pull cable later, switch and change if you need to and makes it far less likely you will need to punch holes in the walls or roof. 

[Guest Peter the Greek]

I had a similar sized room - not as wide. This might give you some ideas on layout/spacing:

 

[roshansubo]

10 hours ago, niterida said:

Do you have enough room for 2 rows of seats - 5m is not a very long room.............

 

 

Thanks a lot Ken for your kind advice.

Basically it's for 4 people. If kids got friends - could be 8. 

I don't like the idea of HT recliners too. Trying to use a normal sofa to give it a casual look.

2 subs are REL T-Zero which have been using for my music listening. Not much big base but sweet base for music listening.

Do I need a riser if I use a 4 seater or 2 seater x 2 sofa ? How do you connect base drivers in riser to AVR ?

I am still not sure whether to go for a projector OR a descent size of a TV. 

DIY absorption panels is a good idea and I have been thinking of it. Would you mind to send me the details & materials you used ? What did you use as an absorbent ?

Would you mind to send me your Wharfedale Speaker models please ?

Thanks again,

Roshan

 

[roshansubo]

4 hours ago, WasM said:

Generally agree with @niterida comments.Room width at 4m plus riser steps will generally..........

Thanks WasM For your kind reply.

From all the reply I thought to go for a single raw couch. But do I still need a riser ??

Do you recommend to go for a solid hinge door over a solid cavity door ?

Thanks,

Roshan

[Guest niterida]

2 minutes ago, roshansubo said:

Thanks a lot Ken for your kind advice.

Basically it's for 4 people. If kids got friends - could be 8. 

I don't like the idea of HT recliners too. Trying to use a normal sofa to give it a casual look.

2 subs are REL T-Zero which have been using for my music listening. Not much big base but sweet base for music listening.

Do I need a riser if I use a 4 seater or 2 seater x 2 sofa ? How do you connect base drivers in riser to AVR ?

I am still not sure whether to go for a projector OR a descent size of a TV. 

DIY absorption panels is a good idea and I have been thinking of it. Would you mind to send me the details & materials you used ? What did you use as an absorbent ?

Would you mind to send me your Wharfedale Speaker models please ?

Thanks again,

Roshan

 

If you go for a single row of seating and bar seating behind then you don't need a riser.
If you don't build a riser you can still put your seating on a single sheet of ply and get great tactile Repsonse that way - the Hideaway Theatre link is the one for that. You will need a separate amp to drive the subwoofer drivers in either riser or single sheet platform. It is well worth the effort and expense - it just adds so much to the experience. Mine 'shakes' the couch down to 3hz - most subs won't go below 20hz until you start spending big $ or building your own.

It feels really natural - its not just movement for the sake of movement.

Definitely go Projector - you just can't beat the immersion of a huge screen.

I just used used 70x35 pine and screwed it into a basic square frame. Then used foil backed 75mm ceiling insulation (Knauf I think was the brand) and stapled the foil onto the frame (with the insulation inside the frame of course) and then wrapped the opposite side in a basic breathable fabric. I don't have any pics of the process though sorry.

Wharfedale Titan 8 - $179 from DJSounds - although I would recommed getting a $75 Behringer first and seeing if you like the sound and save yourself $100 on each speaker if you do.

[WasM]

12 hours ago, roshansubo said:

Do you recommend to go for a solid hinge door over a solid cavity door ?

Air gaps in a cavity door - sound will propagate easily. This will allow external sounds in, conversely internal sound out. Any bedrooms nearby?

Having a solid door frame and sealing reduces the chance of noise/vibration/rattles.

Cavity wall, being thin/hollow in sections will have a different sound profile to the opposite wall thus balance and in room freq will be variable. A solid door with good seal should reduce that interaction.

Depending on construction cavity wall (and the slider door) may not allow you to hang or install room treatment.

 

Whichever way you go have a look at Raven seals. Lots of different solutions with door frame, bottom door seal, can DIY.

Edited March 15, 2021 by WasM
link

[WasM]

12 hours ago, roshansubo said:

Basically it's for 4 people. If kids got friends - could be 8. 

I don't like the idea of HT recliners too. Trying to use a normal sofa to give it a casual look.

 

Do I need a riser if I use a 4 seater or 2 seater x 2 sofa ? How do you connect base drivers in riser to AVR ?

I am still not sure whether to go for a projector OR a descent size of a TV. 

DIY absorption panels is a good idea and I have been thinking of it. Would you mind to send me the details & materials you used ? What did you use as an absorbent ?

Would you mind to send me your Wharfedale Speaker models please ?

Thanks again,

Roshan

 

4 seat couch with bean bags up front? kids get bigger

Riser or not, run conduit into the slab and ask the electrician to provide at least two power points behind the front row seats. Plug phone/ipad charger, bass shakers etc.

 

Projector is my suggestion but you may be happy with a >80" TV. Recommend you sort out your seating distances and work out the size as per my original post, check my theatre build for some ideas somewhere in this forum section.

 

DIY acoustic panels - plenty of threads on this topic throughout this forum and others. Use the search. My suggestion is get the room built first, fill it with furniture and equipment, then treat the room accordingly. You can try to design something into the room during the construction (like bass traps) but you may not need them (light bass preference?).

[roshansubo]

One more questions friends,

If going for a projector, how far behind the front wall  the power point should  be located on the ceiling ? Hope need to wire a HDMI cable too ? is there long HDMI cables in the market ?

Thanks again.

[WasM]

Determine the size of your screen first

• screen size vs seating distance
• aspect ratio (16x9 or 2.4:1)
• do you prefer perforated screen (acoustic transparent like commercial cinema and you place speakers behind) or flat screen. Your 803s may not like placement behind screen?
• determine your budget (screen, projector, hdmi cable, mount)

This will help narrow the options.

The projector specs will then determine the most suitable mounting distance (not all projectors are the same!)

Edited March 16, 2021 by WasM
added info

[roshansubo]

7 hours ago, WasM said:

Determine the size of your screen first

Thanks. I follow that

[Guest niterida]

On 16/03/2021 at 7:55 AM, WasM said:

Whichever way you go have a look at Raven seals. Lots of different solutions with door frame, bottom door seal, can DIY.

Check out Kilargo seals too - I think they are even more specialised and have a larger range.

[roshansubo]

Thank you very much everyone for your kind advice.......

[roshansubo]

On 3/15/2021 at 9:23 PM, niterida said:

If you go for a single row of seating and bar seating behind then you don't need a riser.
If you don't build a riser you can still put your seating on a single sheet of ply and get great tactile Repsonse that way - the Hideaway Theatre link is the one for that. You will need a separate amp to drive the subwoofer drivers in either riser or single sheet platform. It is well worth the effort and expense - it just adds so much to the huge screen.

 

Good morning Niterida,

My home theatre building 70% completed. If I go with Jamo or Behringer speakers , how can I install them on the ceiling & rear wall ? How did you do that ? 

Thanks,

Roshan 

[Guest niterida]

I used galv plumbingpipe from Bunnings to make my own mounts. The Behringers are deigned to be mounted onto a pole which makes it easy  

[roshansubo]

8 hours ago, niterida said:

I used galv plumbingpipe from Bunnings to make my own mounts. The Behringers are deigned to be mounted onto a pole which makes it easy  

If you don't mind, can you add few photos please ? 

Thanks

[Guest niterida]

I haven't actually built them yet but these are the fittings I am talking about and you should be able to figure it out easy enough : https://www.bunnings.com.au/products/bathroom-plumbing/plumbing/pipe-fittings/galvanised-pipe-fittings

 

A plate to mount to the ceiling or wall and just straight pipes and elbows to do the rest.

[roshansubo]

Thanks mate. I will try