Tonewinner Owners & Discussion Thread

[Maverick59]

Hi Guys 
I have been told that Tonewinner are the manufacturer of the Emotiva and the line up of Tonewinner equipment is nearly identical to the Emotiva. I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts or personal experience with the AT-300 unit or Tonewinner in general.
From what I can see Tonewinner amps are identical to the Emotiva amps they have only moved the power socket from one side to the other but all the specs are the same.
Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated.
Cheers 

 

 

[betty boop]

i guess i wold be asking are they available here ? what is after sales and support ? as a relative unknown and playing in space of av processors which most big brands are struggling to keep upto speed with... most would be reluctant to jump onto something like this...

 

they definitely seem to mimic emotiva a bit, unsure really why they the needed to clone the brand ? 

[Maverick59]

They have a impressive list of components and at half the price it makes them very competitive. There is some good reviews on there amps . But like you the support and warranty is most important l might do some more digging and report back . 

[Michael Thorpe]

 I own the Tonewinner AT300. I've had it for a couple of months now.

 

Playing HDR content on it produces some weird artifacts. e.g. brilliant white snow has blocks of purples in it.  Skin tones have blocks of green hues. It's really odd. see images

 

It keeps switching to ARC/eARC input randomly whilst I'm actively using one of the hdmi inputs on the processor. I've had to disable all the CEC stuff to stop it happening.

 

Connected to an Epson LS500 projector, the projector can turn the processor off via CEC but it doesn't turn it on. This is a bug as the projector turns my Lexicon RV9 on and off without issue.

 

When on standby, there's a very high pitch whine coming from the unit, it's not super loud.

 

Spelling mistakes in the English menu

 

I've had to turn my subwoofers volume down to almost 0 as the sub RCA outs appear to run very hot.

 

RCA preouts randomly have high level of distortion whereas the XLR preouts are consistently clean.

 

Sound quality is pretty decent through the XLR outputs.

 

XLR preouts will randomly stop working (I can still hear the sub connected via RCA) - changing the decoding mode gets them working again.

 

I wanted to import them to the UK and start selling them but It's a cheap looking unit and loads of bugs persist.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Nightyard

[betty boop]

well that is all a bit unfortunate ! i wonder if these bugs and issues translate from the emotiva as they  he been notorious in the bug department as well. anyways your experience is a good heads up for anyone indeed considering the items in question...

[Maverick59]

Totally agree Betty Boop and thank you Nightyard for your review . l for one will give them a miss for now 

[batch0912]

I own the same unit, in fact, it just got delivered to me very recently.  I had several hours working and tinkering with my new ToneWinner AT-300.  I watched about a dozen of movies from different genres and from different periods.  I inspected the video and listened to the audio very carefully and NONE, I repeat, NONE of what Nightyard said is present. There were no artifacts on HDR contents and skin tones look very natural, no high-pitched sound when on standby, etc etc. All in all, I can say everything is just working as it should. I believe there were a few firmware upgrades recently and I’m pretty sure these issues were already fixed.  The previous poster should update his device’s firmware and he needs to update his post after that.

If I were to nitpick, the only criticism that I can see is the menu, which looks a bit dated. There’s a little bit of a learning curve, but you’ll get used to it. To be fair, the on-screen menu is laid-out very well, very basic, but it gets the job done!  My overall impression is that the performance of the AT-300 is at par with famous pre-pro brands out there.  One other thing I like is that the AT-300 is a tad heavy on bass.  However, it gives the needed “thump” only when the scene calls for it though. Some people might not be totally into extra bass but I ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT.  It's a matter of personal preference. Priced at only one third of the average price of the named brands, the ToneWinner AT-300 lives up to its name as a real winner!  So for you out there who wants to try the AT-300 but is totally discouraged on ordering because of the previous poster’s criticisms, please don’t be! These issues DON’T EXIST, or NOT ANYMORE.  Everything just works and it’s really great!

Edited June 6, 2021 by batch0912

[cwt]

Emo and tonewinner used to be joined at the hip for power amps but the Chinese brand has started to branch out on their own I gather from this post from Teaman who is a long term avs poster..

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/182069-any-deals-to-be-had-on-new-emotiva-stuff-or-used-xpa3-gen3/&do=findComment&comment=2359526

 

Emo power amps dont have gaudy led "vu look'' power meters either 

 

Rest assured the upper level Emo pre pros are hand assembled in Tennessee now ; burnt too many times by Chinese oem manufacturers sourcing parts and bad contracts  

Now there is a new ad 16ch chipset available it will be interesting to compare this one with the new Emo basex pre pro thats replacing the MC700 [ you can see the likely oem similarities - the back panel has the old xlr balanced output for the lfe ]

Edited May 25, 2021 by cwt

[batch0912]

Hmmm, “gaudy” you said. That’s a harsh word to describe a feature that some of us really like. I, personally, love the VU meter because it gives an equipment a vintage look.

Edited May 25, 2021 by batch0912

[cwt]

2 minutes ago, batch0912 said:

Hmmm, “gaudy” you said. That’s a harsh word to describe a feature that some of us really like. I, personally, love it because it gives an equipment a vintage look.

Rather have a real vu meter but thats fine  Ime one of those types that dont like distracting leds flashing on and off while the bat cave is supposed to be dark to help the projectors contrast 

[Michael Thorpe]

Tonewinner are working hard to resolve the issues I've mentioned above.

 

I'll be share an update once they sort the firmware out.

[StereoNET]

Tonewinner, the unabashedly Chinese brand proving premium home cinema components don't need to cost an arm and a leg, has landed in Australia.

View the full article

[MattyW]

Awesome, I'm currently considering the ToneWinner AT-300 processor..... Trying to decide between a 3 channel pro power amp and the ToneWinner AD-7300PA+ power amp to drive my centre speaker and 2x surrounds though. I imagine the ToneWinner amps would probably be better fidelity though not sure if the added $1k is worth it. Will use my darTZeel circuit power amp for the 2x fronts.

[MattyW]

On 25/05/2021 at 11:07 PM, cwt said:

Rather have a real vu meter but thats fine  Ime one of those types that dont like distracting leds flashing on and off while the bat cave is supposed to be dark to help the projectors contrast 

 

I may be wrong but the red needle looks to be physical to me.... A real Vu meter as far as I can tell from pictures.

[cwt]

2 hours ago, MattyW said:

 

I may be wrong but the red needle looks to be physical to me.... A real Vu meter as far as I can tell from pictures.

Yes its needle is red ; my problem is its accuracy .  vu meters [when recording audio] take an average moment to moment reading ; why sometimes they were assisted with peak reading leds for accuracy .. its all show at the end of the day .ymmv

Brands like mcintosh take presumably much more care with the precision [ as you would expect for the price I reckon] .  I also wonder as its a 7ch power amp which channel is it reading ; i doubt if its switchable ..  And its just one more thing to go wrong if it exceeds its headroom or something but its something to judge for yourself ; Its still a good value package deal though 

Edited January 13, 2022 by cwt

[MattyW]

It seems to be yes..... I don't really need it but I do want it.... Will see if I can talk myself out of it. Have spent too much recently.

[RizInfamous]

Any reviews planned?

[RizInfamous]

On 06/06/2021 at 9:43 AM, Michael Thorpe said:

Tonewinner are working hard to resolve the issues I've mentioned above.

 

I'll be share an update once they sort the firmware out.

 

Hi, now that Selby are selling these locally, just curious whether the issues you originally mentioned were addressed by firmware updates? 

[davewantsmoore]

On 02/03/2021 at 9:10 AM, betty boop said:

they definitely seem to mimic emotiva a bit, unsure really why they the needed to clone the brand ? 

 

AFAIUI, the other way around....

[betty boop]

4 hours ago, RizInfamous said:

 

Hi, now that Selby are selling these locally, just curious whether the issues you originally mentioned were addressed by firmware updates? 

Well published issues with these still. Just depends on tolerance level … some folks put up with more than others …But if sold local that’s a bonus, as long as Shelby will take back if it turns out to be a turkey !

[Guest]

Knowing Selby's rigorous testing before they offer a product for sale, I would "guess" the bugs are not an issue. They also have an exceptional customer service reputation too, so I doubt anyone will have any issues if there are any genuine faults or issues.

 

I look forward to seeing what these products can really do at the value end of the scale.

[gaussianmist]

I am very interested in the Tonewinner 7300, 7-channel amplifier that is only available from one distributor in N. America, SummitHIFI.  This amp is considered by some to be very handsome since it has a huge VU meter (originally spelled UV on the earlier versions) that spans almost the width of the unit.  (Although I don't quite understand the utility of 1 VU meter on a 7 channel amp.)

 

Of course I am interested (sucker for pretty faces) but I don't like to buy a pig in a poke.  So I wrote to  SummitHiFi and asked whether they would send this amp to Audio Science Review for review.  I never received an answer, so I called and asked whether he would do it and he said that it already had been tested by Tonewinner and the acid test is to listen.  When I said I would need a disinterested third-party to measure the amp, he gave me no assurance he would do so.

 

O.K., now the meat of this rant:  It's been opined by many that Tonewinner makes Emotiva products.  There is a current Emotiva amp that spec-wise is the twin of the Tonewinner. It is the Emotiva XPA-7 Gen3 7-channel amp. (From their current line up.) This unit (like the Tonewinner) has a switch-mode power supply and rail-modulating class-H operation.  Spec by spec these amps are virtually identical.  Since SummitHiFi won't send the Tonewinner to ASR why can't we use the review of the Emotiva as a proxy?  It just so happens that there is such a review performed by John Atkinson of Stereophile on the 2-channel version. (This is a modular amp.) And the URL is:

  https://www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-xpa-gen3-two-channel-power-amplifier-measurements

It was not a stellar performer, evidencing high IM distortion and increasing THD with upper frequency.

[Guest]

Let's assume much of what you say is true, and with the saying that "you get what you pay for" - we are talking about 7 channels of 300W (8ohms), 500W (4ohms) per channel - for $2,499 in Australia.

 

The issues with the measurements you suggest, are towards the pointier end of our hearing, and probably not even audible for those over 40 years of age. We are also talking about a use case of a multi-channel surround sound system too, as opposed to 2-channel stereo and critical listening.

 

For the price, I would dive right in were I looking for a value for money high power multi-channel amp.

[cwt]

7 hours ago, gaussianmist said:

  It's been opined by many that Tonewinner makes Emotiva products.  There is a current Emotiva amp that spec-wise is the twin of the Tonewinner. It is the Emotiva XPA-7 Gen3 7-channel amp. (From their current line up.) This unit (like the Tonewinner) has a switch-mode power supply and rail-modulating class-H operation.  Spec by spec these amps are virtually identical.  Since SummitHiFi won't send the Tonewinner to ASR why can't we use the review of the Emotiva as a proxy?  It just so happens that there is such a review performed by John Atkinson of Stereophile on the 2-channel version. (This is a modular amp.)

I would be wary of any stereophile reviews Jim as any one person has biases . As an example heres a review of the 3ch version from audioholics [and there is some solid bench test results with it ] 

 

Emotiva XPA Gen3 Power Amplifier Review (Benchtests Added) - HomeTheaterHifi.com

 

[gaussianmist]

On 20/05/2022 at 11:02 PM, Marc said:

Let's assume much of what you say is true, and with the saying that "you get what you pay for" - we are talking about 7 channels of 300W (8ohms), 500W (4ohms) per channel - for $2,499 in Australia.

 

The issues with the measurements you suggest, are towards the pointier end of our hearing, and probably not even audible for those over 40 years of age. We are also talking about a use case of a multi-channel surround sound system too, as opposed to 2-channel stereo and critical listening.

 

For the price, I would dive right in were I looking for a value for money high power multi-channel amp.

Thank you for your reply.

 

Sorry if I'm a late for this response but I've been re-wiring my audio setup.

 

Your right about the high upper frequency THD (only my dog is complaining.) However Stereophile was feeding only 50 watts @8 ohms for this test and even then the Emotiva was out of spec. Emotiva specs this amp at 300 watts RMS/channel; 20Hz-20kHZ; THD,0.1%; one-channel driven, according to its website. 

But what is worrisome and well within the range of hearing is the high intermodulation distortion which, unlike harmonic distortion, is not masked by the fundamental. 

 

Emotiva responded to this review by thanking Stereophile and mentioned no disagreement with the review.