Sony Projector HDMI failures - help!

[Tony M]

I'd be grateful for any tech input on a frustrating issue.

 

In mid 2019, I had a projector and screen installed as described in this thread:

 

The projector is a Sony VPLVW570ES and this receives it's signal from a Bluestream HDMI switch via a 20 metre fibre-optic HDMI 2.0 cable.

 

A few days after the initial installation the projector stopped working.  Both HDMI inputs had failed and the projector was swapped out for a new one.

 

For various reasons, the projector has had little use since then, maybe a couple of hundred hours.  It was working fine when it was last used a few weeks ago.....................

 

.......................................until last night!  I turned it on and there was no signal on HDMI 1.  I swapped to HDMI 2 and that input still works, but HDMI 1 has clearly become U/S between when I last turned it off several weeks ago and last night. 

 

I would simply put this down to component failure, except for the fact that two HDMI ports failed in the originally-supplied unit in the days after installation and now another has failed.  Given HDMI failure doesn't seem to be a common problem with this unit, it seems difficult to put it down to co-incidence.  But I can't see how it's anything else.

 

In both cases, the HDMI port failure has been confirmed by using another DVD player and HDMI cable connected directly.

 

Of course, I'll go back to the vendor who I believe will provide excellent service and the Sony should be covered by a 3 year warranty.  But I thought I would post it here in case someone more knowledgeable than me has any ideas on what could be causing this.  I also wonder if I should expect replacement or repair?

 

 

[wooferocau]

Any chance your using a "Ruipro" Fibre Optic Cable ?

[Tony M]

7 minutes ago, wooferocau said:

Any chance your using a "Ruipro" Fibre Optic Cable ?

I'm pretty sure it's a FIBBR cable.

 

But I'm curious why you ask that.  Can a cable kill HDMI ports?

[Telecine]

Could be a power on sequencing issue. HDMI ports can be killed by changing cables when the device is live. Just a thought.

[Tony M]

There was no cable changing involved - the HDMI cable was in HDMI 1 port and it worked when I turned it off, but not when I turned it on a few weeks later.  In any case, I read somewhere that current HDMI standards allow for hot swapping - or something along those lines.  But the fact that both HDMI ports failed in the first unit would totally deter me from doing that.  BTW, there was no hot swapping involved in the original failure either.

 

I've ruled out power on sequencing issues by

• turning everything off and on again several times
• noting HDMI 2 still works fine
• trying another dvd player and cable into HDMI 1 and 2  - HDMI 1 is dead and HDMI2 works fine.

But thanks for the thoughts - any and all ideas are welcome as I'm at a loss.  Currently I'm leaning towards the idea of coincidence or a bad batch of HDMI ports.  But, if that was the case, I'd expect to see others with the same issue on the net. 

[evil c]

1 hour ago, Tony M said:

I'm pretty sure it's a FIBBR cable.

 

But I'm curious why you ask that.  Can a cable kill HDMI ports?

Tony I had issues with a Fibbr HDMI cable and from the Apple Set top box.

I found there were mainly issues on the No.2 input on my Epson projector , such as not recognizing HDR and ended up going to pretty well stock HDMI cables .

These problems can drive you crazy, but don't mix Fibre with standard in any part of the chain - remember @betty booptaught me that!

[Tony M]

Thanks Evil

 

But this isn't non-recognition - it's dead HDMI ports X 3 in total so far.  In yours or Al's experience, did the fibre cause any permanent hardware damage?

 

This cable runs through the roof structure and  would be an absolute PITA to replace with something else.  I'd have to be really sure it's the culprit or that it was definitely causing other issues to warrant drastic action. 

 

 

[Quark]

2 hours ago, Tony M said:

There was no cable changing involved - the HDMI cable was in HDMI 1 port and it worked when I turned it off, but not when I turned it on a few weeks later.  In any case, I read somewhere that current HDMI standards allow for hot swapping - or something along those lines.  But the fact that both HDMI ports failed in the first unit would totally deter me from doing that.  BTW, there was no hot swapping involved in the original failure either.

 

I've ruled out power on sequencing issues by

• turning everything off and on again several times
• noting HDMI 2 still works fine
• trying another dvd player and cable into HDMI 1 and 2  - HDMI 1 is dead and HDMI2 works fine.

But thanks for the thoughts - any and all ideas are welcome as I'm at a loss.  Currently I'm leaning towards the idea of coincidence or a bad batch of HDMI ports.  But, if that was the case, I'd expect to see others with the same issue on the net. 

 

Have you had thunderstorms close by when the ports failed? I've had a couple of HDMI ports fried when connected to longer HDMI cables - presumably from induced currents from nearby lightning strikes.

[Tony M]

4 minutes ago, Quark said:

 

Have you had thunderstorms close by when the ports failed? I've had a couple of HDMI ports fried when connected to longer HDMI cables - presumably from induced currents from nearby lightning strikes.

I guess that has to be a possibility.  The interval between working and not working was several weeks and there were probably one or two storms in the intervening period.  But nothing else has been affected in any way and nothing would have been turned on during a storm.  In fact, if I expect thunder and lightening I typically disconnect everything in the shed from power and internet connections.

 

And inuitively I'd have thought a fibre HDMI cable would be less likely to be affected?? 

[Quark]

2 minutes ago, Tony M said:

I guess that has to be a possibility.  The interval between working and not working was several weeks and there were probably one or two storms in the intervening period.  But nothing else has been affected in any way and nothing would have been turned on during a storm.  In fact, if I expect thunder and lightening I typically disconnect everything in the shed from power and internet connections.

 

And inuitively I'd have thought a fibre HDMI cable would be less likely to be affected?? 

 

Fibre cables still have some copper strands for the less data intensive functions - if I recall correctly CEC, EDID and power. Induced currents can be developed in the cable itself, not from power or network connections.

[Tony M]

9 minutes ago, Quark said:

 

Fibre cables still have some copper strands for the less data intensive functions - if I recall correctly CEC, EDID and power. Induced currents can be developed in the cable itself, not from power or network connections.

 

Well, I guess it's a possibility and I'll add the HDMI cable to the "unplug list" when anticipating storms in the future.

 

But I don't think that possibility removes any warranty liability and it suggests HDMI ports are extremely fragile.

[Quark]

1 minute ago, Tony M said:

 

Well, I guess it's a possibility and I'll add the HDMI cable to the "unplug list" when anticipating storms in the future.

 

But I don't think that possibility removes any warranty liability and it suggests HDMI ports are extremely fragile.

 

Agree it's a legitimate warranty claim regardless. HDMI ports should be robust and reliable (even if that means the industry specs need updating).

[wooferocau]

5 hours ago, Tony M said:

I'm pretty sure it's a FIBBR cable.

 

But I'm curious why you ask that.  Can a cable kill HDMI ports?

There were some reports and concerns in the US that some of the Ruipro cables were "killing" HDMI ports on the new NX series projectors.

 

Yes , an active cable can damage a HDMI port due to overvoltage.

[cwt]

On 01/01/2021 at 11:24 AM, Tony M said:

 would simply put this down to component failure, except for the fact that two HDMI ports failed in the originally-supplied unit in the days after installation and now another has failed.  Given HDMI failure doesn't seem to be a common problem with this unit, it seems difficult to put it down to co-incidence.  But I can't see how it's anything else.

Just speculating that its to do with the 5v voltage being supplied over such a long distance .  That is assuming you have a copper based hdmi cable going into the switching bluestream [and the ruipro afterwards ]

 

Ruipro need less voltage than active copper so longer runs are feasible . Depending on what hdmi you have you may need some stabilisation ; cypress are worth enquiring to maybe ?

 CS-PM - HDMI Power Inserter - Cypress Technology

 

Quote

The HDMI Power Inserter can solve this by providing up to 5V/2A of power to HDMI devices like scalers, splitters or it can power an HDMI Enhancer (with built-in HDMI CDR and equalizer) to stabilize the signal and help to solve HDMI power issues.

HDMI CDR with Equalizer (cypconverters.com.au)

[Tony M]

But the cable is FIBBR, not Ruipro and there is no external voltage applied.

 

The vendor will talk to Sony on Monday and get back to me.  Their experience of these projectors is extreme reliability, apart fom my specific problems.  I've dealt with the bloke concerned for the past 40 years+ and respect his opinion, honesty and integrity.  He told me the last failed HDMI in a Sony projector (and they sell a lot of them) was the one originally supplied to me.

 

I think he's inclined to put it down to co-incidence, but I can't help wondering if there's something else in play here.  I just can't figure out what that could be.  We have surge protectors built into the 3 phase switchboard and have had no electrical/lightning issues in the 12 years we've been here despite having a lot of electronic equipment plugged in most of the time.

[cwt]

19 minutes ago, Tony M said:

But the cable is FIBBR, not Ruipro and there is no external voltage applied.

Was referring to the hdmi cable before the bluestream switcher Tony ; you didnt say what its length or type was so to paraphrase what I wrote 

Quote

assuming you have a copper based hdmi cable going into the switching bluestream

if it is a mix of differing types some stabilisation may help ? Anyway  good luck sorting it out ; I dont envy your luck;  hdmi can have troubles with very short cables too anecdotally [lumagen doesnt like them]

[Tony M]

The cables going into the HDMI switcher are just reasonably ordinary 4K capable cables from a computer, Foxtel IQ and Panasonic DVD player.  They include the generic one supplied with the foxbox to an Audioquest Chocolate  for the dvd player.

 

I guess I'll just leave it to the retailer/installer to sort it out, but I wish I had a clue what the true anwer is.   Apparently they use the FIBBR/Sony combo all the time without problems . 

[Tony M]

I'm reviving this thread as it's happened again!  For various reasons the projector has had little use in the intervening years and is showing only 290 hours of lamp time.  HDMI port failure number three!

 

And of course it was at the worst possible time - a GTG with one of Australia's most esteemed hifi retailer/distributors and his wife in attendance - they were visiting from interstate to upgrade a friend's system.

 

My local retailer is stumped and is emailing the Sony techs to see if they have any ideas.  FWIW, the HDMI cable is FIBBR and the switch is a Blustream SW41AB-V2.

 

Any ideas/suggestions are very welcome as everyone I've spoken to about this seems to be stumped.  I might only use the projector occasionally, but I want it to be working when I do.  

Edited October 8, 2023 by Tony M

[betty boop]

7 hours ago, Tony M said:

My local retailer is stumped and is emailing the Sony techs to see if they have any ideas.  FWIW, the HDMI cable is FIBBR and the switch is a Blustream SW41AB-V2.

as per a post above tony id personally banish the Fibbr cable from whence it came...

 

how long is the cable and how long does it need to be ? can you get away with a 30ft cable ? ie about 9.2m long... id swap to a mono price certified with QR code passive had cable if can...

 

https://www.amazon.com.au/Monoprice-Certified-Premium-Speed-Cable/dp/B07D7JTTNR

 

being a passive cable it cant blow your hdmi ports like active fibre cables can. 

 

I run all passive cables in my system for this reason. 

 

On 1/1/2021 at 2:54 PM, Tony M said:

But this isn't non-recognition - it's dead HDMI ports X 3 in total so far.  In yours or Al's experience, did the fibre cause any permanent hardware damage?

yes hdmi cables  - powered variety have been known to kill hdmi ports. first identified by jvc usa and dealer mike garrett who inhabits AVSforum...

 

do you have to use the blue stream ? the less things in the chain the better ? 

 

what is the processer ? at other end of the blue stream ? it all helps to know the total picture.

 

with hdmi cables length is crucial and if can move across to a passive cable i would

 

if cant id move across to one of latest gen ruipro rather than the fibrr . and i know active ruipro have blown ports before but they probably have the best credit in the industry of continuously developing  and improving cables...

[Tony M]

Very interesting and enlightening comments, BB.  Thanks for your interest and advice.

 

Unfortunately, the cable runs up through the wall behind the racks and then through the shed ceiling, which is only accessible bay removing roof sheets and ridge capping.  It's a pretty major undertaking.  There is a remote possibility that a cable could be drawn through the conduit, but this would be a long shot.  In any case, 9.2 metres wouldn't be possible with the current layout/configuration.  I'll do some measurements tomorrow and see if I can work out what the minimum requirement is.  

 

The switch is instead of (not as well as) a processor - I only run stereo plus subs for audio.   My plan was to add to this if I felt a need to do so.  But the movies we tend to watch lean towards dialogue rather than action/explosions etc and mostly the projector has been used for music videos rather than movies.  In any case, it's probably been used less than I initially envisaged so it's very frustrating that it has been so unreliable. 

 

Thanks again for your comments, which I suspect are spot-on.

 

 

[betty boop]

5 minutes ago, Tony M said:

Unfortunately, the cable runs up through the wall behind the racks and then through the shed ceiling, which is only accessible bay removing roof sheets and ridge capping.  It's a pretty major undertaking.  There is a remote possibility that a cable could be drawn through the conduit, but this would be a long shot.  In any case, 9.2 metres wouldn't be possible with the current layout/configuration.  I'll do some measurements tomorrow and see if I can work out what the minimum requirement is.  

 

one way to shorten cables is folks plonk source and projector (and processor if using one) all up on a rack up back ..firing forward onto screen

 removes all these cable runs.. makes install real easy... and no need for fancy cables... just short passive certified all need. 

 

is this perhaps an option ? 

 

7 minutes ago, Tony M said:

The switch is instead of (not as well as) a processor - I only run stereo plus subs for audio.   My plan was to add to this if I felt a need to do so.  But the movies we tend to watch lean towards dialogue rather than action/explosions etc and mostly the projector has been used for music videos rather than movies.  In any case, it's probably been used less than I initially envisaged so it's very frustrating that it has been so unreliable. 

do you need the switcher ? wondering what purpose it has ? as the projector if wiring directly upto it can also act as a switcher.. usually more than one port on them ... 

 

what are your source gear ? if its an apple tv can park that at the projector and with remote will work from anywhere.

 

if source is a blu-ray player there might be a wireless hdmi solution ? one i ran with an epson years ago was seamless  and helped me through a time when i didnt have avr that could handle the latest hdmi for 3D.. and the epson wireless hdmi happened to also come with a switcher

 

https://www.digitalcinema.com.au/epson-wirelesshd-transmitter-with-ac-adaptor-open-box.html

 

https://www.epson.com.au/microsite/hometheatre/

 

 

 

 

i wouldn't normally suggest wireless hdmi but if wires are such a bother ....

 

being honest i have run cabled up for years and years now no issues...ones a 10m comsol cable from office works another the mono price i pointed to.. both have been faultless.. but i have always run processors which can act as a booster in the midst

 

[Tony M]

The sources are a computer (Intel NUC), Bluray player and Foxtel.  Apple TV likely to be added.

 

The projector hangs from the middle of the room - not many options in terms of moving the sources closer.

 

[cwt]

On 08/10/2023 at 1:12 PM, Tony M said:

IAny ideas/suggestions are very welcome as everyone I've spoken to about this seems to be stumped.  I might only use the projector occasionally, but I want it to be working when I do.  

Just anecdotally with sources like foxtel [and their early abysmal track record] ; I would do a long term test with it off [ or try a substitute] or get a replacement if feasible?

Some components get more consideration for hdmi compatibility and have better psu's etc 

 

As a last ditch thought ; do you have all the cec controls [source and everything else ]switched off ?

ARC is a pain ..

Of course its a very long shot any of these is connected to a dud port ; just something easy to try without getting complicated

[RCADees]

On 08/10/2023 at 10:49 PM, Tony M said:

The sources are a computer (Intel NUC), Bluray player and Foxtel.  Apple TV likely to be added.

 

The projector hangs from the middle of the room - not many options in terms of moving the sources closer.

 

Just an idea once you resolve the HDMI port issue on the projector.

 

If you are looking at replacing the HDMI cable for a passive one as Betty Boop suggested or alternative to it, would you consider running the new HDMI cable from the projector to the ceiling and running it along the joints of the ceiling sheets, down the wall to the rack and then cover the cable with one of those white cable covers which would  run on top of the cable?

 

In this way it may not be too noticeable and under the circumstances it may be an ok option.

[Tony M]

I'm updating this thread with more information.  So far the dealer hasn't been able to get any useful input from the Sony Techs.

 

However, there are some very weird aspects at play here and they tend to take the blame away from the cables to the projector itself.

 

The most surprising one is that the HDMI1 port IS NOT DEAD!  It works perfectly well with a Teac STB that I happened to try on a whim.  Regardless of whether it goes through the switch and the FIBBR cable and regardless of the resolution (up to 1080p) the el cheapo STB just works.

 

However there is no input when I try the computer, Foxtel PVR or Panasonic Bluray player instead of the Teac STB.

 

The exception  is when I try the Foxtel STB directly into the projector with a short 4 or 8K cable.  Then it does give a picture via HDMI1, but it is blurry, the aspect is wrong, the resolution changes to auto, there is no 4K compatibility, the projector is not recognized as a Sony and there is no HDR support.

 

This is with HDMI1:

 

 

 

This is with HDMI2:

 

 

 

Hopefully one of the Tech-savvy people can suggest why this difference between HDMI1 and HDMI2 should occur and what might be the cause.  Even knowing if it's likely to be hardware or software/firmware related would help.  I do stress that HDMI1 is capable of giving a perfect picture using the Teac STB as a source, so it would appear not to be damaged as such. 

 

Any ideas welcome and appreciated.