-chippy- Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I have 4 sonique 5.5 (floorstanders) all but one with blown/fused drivers/speakers and even the 4th one is dodgy a pic of what they look like, mine are jarrah though and some specs, mine are not SE but the specs are the same Sonique 5.5SE Speakers Drivers: 3 Speaker - 2 way One 140mm Woofer/Midrange One 25mm Ferro-fluid Filled Tweeter Enclosure: 20mm Thick MDF Timber-Veneered Baffle: 43mm Thick MFR: 46 Hz– 20 kHz within 6 dB @ 3 meters Crossover Point: 3 kHz Sensitivity: 89dB 1W @1 meter Impedance: 6 Ohms (nominal) THD: Less than 0.08% @ 1 watt Minimum Rec Power Amp: 35 Watts RMS MSRP: $2500 AUS to the makers they arnt quite worth fixing, they considered sending the speakers overseas to have them rewound but by the time their labour costs come into it they prefer to just give me new speakers (as they recently stopped making this model, which won many awards btw, i was always happy with them too) i just couldn't bring myself to throwing them out (cost me a bomb in their day when i was younger-maybe 15+ years ago i cant remember), i thought the cabinets were still very nice original condition, and they are nice, although now looking very closely i find the odd nick or mark on a corner or so, nothing that bothers me though, you have to look too close to find them i asked the tech if they were worth anything and he said the crossovers inside and i assume the gold posts must be worth a dollar or two to a builder, i cant think of much else that would be in them though? i also vaguely asked if i got some speaker (albeit not the same sonique) the same size to put in the same place if that would be worth it (not as my main speakers, out back party room use) , he kinda ummed and ah'ed..and said you would (i forget the correct phrase he said) still have to balance or time them, which meant i would have to take them to him to put on his bench and then still be hit with labour costs making the project not worth it before i either wreck or burn these things or chop out bits is there any hope for them, i still like the slim profile of these, they have unimposing sexy look to them..or perhaps are the crossover worthwhile to someone wanting to build speakers? any useful ideas for them at all really? hate the idea of chopping and burning them, but if thats all there is left to do! thanks Chippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tal Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 The cabinets will be fine for a kit. Why not use them as a base to have a stab at building your own? There will be plenty of help on here. Or if you don't fancy the idea, I'll take them off your hands.... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tal Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 And throw in a few bob of course. Drinking money style. And they'll have gone to a good home, and not be firewood. Ahhhhhhhh !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Absolutely worth fixing, IMO. Sonique built some nice speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tal Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 This might work? https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=35_469&products_id=381 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tal Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 This is cheaper, but designed for a smaller cabinet... maybe tweak the porting and have lower Q from the extra size...? Then stick them near a wall to reinforce the bass. https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=35_469&products_id=8649 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tal Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) I don't mean to take this off-topic, but then again, I don't think I am. But it seems to me that 'fixing' a drive unit is a complete stab in the dark. Has anyone had drivers rewound, reconed, whatever and the repair has been relatively true to the TS specs of the original item? Same VAS, same Qts, works well in the same box? Or would it be better to junk the drivers and buy new, with something that should (or can be made to) work in the same box? Or is it dependant on exactly who does the fixing? As for the kits I mentioned... no, you couldn't just pop them right in. You'd have to measure them and tweak the crossover a bit for the cabinet, possibly make mounting flanges for the drivers, etc. But they are some nice cabs. Not to be wasted. Edited July 15, 2011 by tal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-chippy- Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 The cabinets will be fine for a kit. Why not use them as a base to have a stab at building your own? There will be plenty of help on here. Or if you don't fancy the idea, I'll take them off your hands.... ;-) plenty of help is what would be needed sadly! although i would be happy to give it a go, i dont really grasp the basics of speaker building, thats on the electronic side, the carpentry/cabinet making side i can handle no problem, even though these are larley glued together, if i had to i can get into them and then put them back together without significant problem i could if i had too...i'll keep in mind the later offer, thanks And throw in a few bob of course. Drinking money style. And they'll have gone to a good home, and not be firewood. Ahhhhhhhh !!! no worries, i appreciate the offer...it may come to that, yikes!...besides i need a drink to morn my favourite speakers!!!! <snip>As for the kits I mentioned... no, you couldn't just pop them right in. You'd have to measure them and tweak the crossover a bit for the cabinet, possibly make mounting flanges for the drivers, etc. But they are some nice cabs. Not to be wasted. i guess thats the problem, although i am a fast learner i really dont know those type of details mean (measure what ?? tweak the crossover???? mounting the drivers which i assume means the speaker thingy i can do perfectly i am sure) or more importantly how one learns them as yet...yeah the cabs are nice, i have happily lived with them for yonks, simple and elegant, often better looking than the new fancy looking cabs i have seen in the boutique shops lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanArn Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 A well made speaker cabinet is an expensive item in the total cost of a loudspeaker system and any assessment of the economics of repair should be based on the price of an equivalent or upgraded model.If the cones are still assembled in the drivers and have not been sliced apart to inspect for the cause of failure and if the coils have not burnt or melted the cone,then it is possible to fit replacement type voice coils or custom wound ones.This procedure ensures that the repaired driver will be as close to the original as possible and sometimes even improved.Some repairers will measure the parameters (at an added cost)if requested as well as carrying out crossover modifications.If other speakers are to be used as replacements then fitting into the baffle rebates and all the associated rework has to be allowed for and well,its not the original. Tal in Post#7 is right to advise caution in respect to maintaining the T&S parameters as I have come across repairs where all the moving parts have been replaced and the resultant product was inferior to the original model. If the original drivers are SEAS units (going by the look of the frames) then the original specifications are already known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Spencer Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Chippy, my suggestions: 1. Find out exactly which drivers are working. Go direct to the terminals of each individual driver with a multimeter and measure continuity/resistance. 2. Make a note of the drivers (see if any markings on the magnet) It may be possible to still get the drivers. If it turns out the drivers can't be obtained and they are all faulty except one: 1. Keep the box. You will need to work out the net internal volume and the length and diameter of the port. 2. Download WinISD and plug in the numbers, pick a random driver and enter the box volume and vent parameters. This will show you the tuning point, handy later. 3. This is the tricky part. Find a driver that will fit into the cutout. If you have something like a fairly standard Seas midbass, then you will probably have a lot of drop in replacements (physically drop in, not in any other way). This should lead to quite a few drivers that could work. 4. Find a good design using a driver that will fit. The tweeter part should be easy. You'll have to take out the foam then re-attach later with contact adhesive. If plan B, then your fingers will have some walking on the net to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-chippy- Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 Thanks for the replies, given the advise i will try and see what i can do with them, if it doesn't stretch the budget too much, with a little help from here hopefully, i assume to test continuity that i will have to desolder the speakers, although i havnt got inside the box yet i am in completely new territory for me so thanks for the idiot guide walkthrough Paul (i fear i need step by step instructions on this for a bit), i will give it go and see what happens, i have to ask a stupid question though. how do the speakers come away from the box, i have undone the screws 4 on the top large one and 5 around the circumference of the middle tweeter, but both dont just 'fall out' so to speak and seem to be stuck fast (glued in?). is there a method to removing them or just how much persuasion can i use to get them out? (the foam was easy to remove it was held in with velcro backing) if i can remember right the sonique tech was amazed at the failure of these, he had never seen anything like it he said, i think it might have been just one tweeter that was partially working out of the 4 and all the coils of every speaker melted or something like that..so far from the outside, each large cone moves in and out as it is pushed on and released, a couple of them not very smoothly though, however one gets stuck in, and doesnt want to pop back out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mac Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 if i can remember right the sonique tech was amazed at the failure of these, he had never seen anything like it he said, i think it might have been just one tweeter that was partially working out of the 4 and all the coils of every speaker melted or something like that..so far from the outside, each large cone moves in and out as it is pushed on and released, a couple of them not very smoothly though, however one gets stuck in, and doesnt want to pop back out Which amp(s) were you using to drive these speakers? Did you listen to them at loud levels? Melted voice coils are symptomatic of excessive power, excessive DC voltage from a faulty amp, or excessive clipping from your amp. In most cases, voice coils don't self-destruct unless something is amiss upstream of the speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-chippy- Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) Which amp(s) were you using to drive these speakers? Did you listen to them at loud levels?Melted voice coils are symptomatic of excessive power, excessive DC voltage from a faulty amp, or excessive clipping from your amp. In most cases, voice coils don't self-destruct unless something is amiss upstream of the speaker. all good questions but they had been fine for years and its not completely certain what caused it (but yeah i understand the clipping side of things well enough), the sonique techs suggested lightning was only thing they could think of to cause such complete damage under the circumstances, even clipping they didnt think could have done all this, either way its time to move on i guess and get things working again, i'm not taking any risks though which is why i have bought new XPA-1 monoblock Emotiva amps and some other new amps for the HT side as well, and will probably replace the speaker cable too just for the sake of it..edit, also i'm running a couple of new power circuits just for this gear Edited July 16, 2011 by -chippy- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanArn Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 To remove a driver that is stuck,find a metal thread screw with a flat rather than a pointed starting spiral, it must be wide enough to thread itself within the mounting hole of the speaker frame.Fit a smaller screw to the existing screw hole in the baffle so it acts as a bearing face.Drive the larger screw inwards slowly against the blocked hole until the frame just begins to lift.Repeat this at the other mounting holes until the unit is free.Destroyed voice coils are not always caused by overload;sometimes the technique of bonding using a wetting method which employs a solvent to amalgamate a coating on the wire and former, is the cause, through mechanical failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-chippy- Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) cheers VanArn as things go that was just the wrong speaker to start with it, the speakers in it were stuck solid but after getting one out from another unit and seeing how they were fitted i managed to get them all out easy enough ------------------------------- i put the multi meter on the horseshoe (ohms) 200 setting and placed one lead on each speaker terminal (i didnt desolder them) only on (what i will for the time being call) unit B did i get a reading across the terminals of the mid/bass speakers and that was 05.7 on both top and bottom woofer/mid speakers, however i connected it up to my AV set to radio and no sound came out. The other 3 units on the mid/bass speakers i got no reading at all the mid/bass speakers (or are they called drivers?) all had the following written on them; P 14 RC/P H828-08ohm made in Norway they also had what looked like a date 21-97 which would mesh in when i possibly purchased them (one speaker has 96), some had 07/02 (2 in unit B and one in unit D) which would coincide with, now that i think of it and remember) when i took them in about 2002 because some stopped working on me, they changed those drivers free of charge i recall all the tweeters i got a reading from (if i did it correctly, they were a bit fiddley), one much different to others, unit A 04.5 ,unit B 100.9, unit C 101.0, unit D 99.8 the tweeters had the following written on them vifa D27TG-45-06 06 ohm (as a symbol) 604 was on some 703 was on others made in Denmark do those specs help at all?? have i done the multi meter thing correct? what does it tell you? and are there any suitable replacements for those speakers? thanks cheers Chippy Edited July 16, 2011 by -chippy- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mac Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 The woofers/midranges are SEAS, similar to this: http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h0395_p14rc.pdf The tweeters are Vifa: http://www.wescomponents.com/datasheets/Speakers/Vifa/D27TG-45-06.pdf Speakerbits in Melbourne stock them: http://www.speakerbits.com/products/speakers/tweeters/list-148.aspx A bit of googling should locate some (or perhaps some newer equivalent models). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanArn Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 The tweeters need to be disconnected from the crossovers to measure continuity as other components will effect the reading..When speakers go open circuit,there is additional stress on the remaining units,not to mention a difficult reactive load for an amplifier to cope with.I could not find data for this model and it is possible that it is a custom unit made to a manufacturers special requirement. John Woodhead at Aranmar may also be able to help with more data.If you don't have anyone in S.A. able to do the repair work you may have to consider sending all the speaker drivers interstate for refurbishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-chippy- Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 VanArn, is that disconnect the tweeters to get an accurate measurement just for the tweeter? (i dont mind doing it) or does having them connected affect the reading for the mid/woofers too...sorry for being a boof head here lol a link in a post above provided shows only $70 for replacement tweeter, completely doable in my book, if something similar is possible for the mid/woofer it would be great i dont mind sending interstate or anywhere for matter to have them repaired...its all a matter of what it might cost (any ideas?) and whether its economical? for example the sonique guys didnt think it was economical for them to fix em (not that they pull speakers apart, they build whole units), they preferred to offer me a very good deal on new replacement units that they feel are upgrades too (naturally), at well, perhaps i better not say on open forum, but heavily discounted to say the least, cost price i guess, which i fully intend on taking up the offer, almost have the funds ready after quite some time saving...but is it possible to get these ol 5.5s working for a good price is the question, instead of throwing them out, i would realy love to keep them, grown very attached to them and the size and shape i practically prefer to the new models (as very nice as they are they are not as sleek as these, i think they agree as well) perhaps it is all too hard? eek, ...sad outcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicprObe Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Just order the speakers as linked by Pete and install them. It's not that hard. I'd replace them all so they all sound the same. The crossovers are likely to be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-chippy- Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 Just order the speakers as linked by Pete and install them.It's not that hard. I'd replace them all so they all sound the same. The crossovers are likely to be OK. sounds good, cheers didnt he only have a link to buy the tweeter though? crikey i need serious help, i must be getting old lol where to get the woofer/mids? or did i miss something cheers chippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Spencer Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Your tweeter should be easy to replace, but the woofer I'm having trouble finding. You can easily find P14RC but the one that you have has a "/P" at the end which refers to the phaseplug which P14RC doesn't have. If you look at the way back web archive then this driver doesn't appear on the Seas website in '99: http://web.archive.org/web/20000818085443/http://www.seas.no/seas_line/oversi.htm So you want a 14cm poly cone that has a phase plug. You would be very lucky to find it anywhere. If you get P14RC then it will not be quite the same. Whether it will work fine with the same crossover is a gamble. You may well find a design out there using any of the Seas 14cm drivers with the same frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanArn Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Chippy,in typically used crossovers(2 way) it is only necessary to disconnect the tweeter from the system to measure its D.C. resistance. Of course,the speaker must not remain connected to the amplifier,on or off.Sometimes it is easier to just use a 1.5V battery to test a spkr. as you get an audible and visible indication of a working or not item.If you replace drivers;your other option,then you may need to have adjustments made to the crossovers to match variations in sensitivity and impedance and there still remains the parameter specification w.r.t. the cabinet. Cost is a difficult thing to specify as excluding freight,it will depend on labour and parts. Presuming that you have intact cones ,surrounds and spiders then coil replacement using generic types should be around $80 to $100. Custom wound coils are more expensive but are better in terms of coil rigidity and thermal limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mac Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Interestingly, the Usher S-520s are pretty much the same size as these, and have the phase plug. They are basically SEAS clones, but I doubt that they would measure exactly the same. They also have clear cones. Some pics here: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/30378-Usher-S-520-nudies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasaudio Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Ill see what seas says re the p14's for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-chippy- Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Ill see what seas says re the p14's for you. crossed fingers i get some good news, much appreciated, as of course is everyone else's help ..i would love to save these so long as its economical to do so cheers Chippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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