Under Hifi Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 Hi guys, Foreword: This is the first time I have had any need to venture into this section of the forums and I admit from the get go I'm no speaker buff. Here is the deal. A good friend of mine who knows I am into hifi has recently enlisted me to buy him some speakers for his rig after a salesperson tried to palm some Bose speakers onto him. Details: He is a designer by trade so looks do matter. However, I will try and jump over that hurdle if I come to it. The room is 3.6m x 3m x 3m (LxWxH)and the speakers will be driven by a vintage Sansui amp (80's) which specs 45wpc. He is envisaging them mounted half way up in the corners of the 3m wall, but that is up for review. The room itself has a timber floor and old (30s) plasterboard walls. So with a budget of $800-$1,000 (including getting them to Hobart) does anyone have any suggestions? As I just hinted the speaker's new home will be Hobart so that is something else I'm open to suggestions about, any decent hifi stores here worth checking out down here? Cheers!
pete_mac Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 Can you find out which exact model of amp it is? Some of the 80's sansui amps don't perform as well as their specs suggest, so you may need to look for efficient, easy to drive speakers subject to which model it is.
Under Hifi Posted July 6, 2011 Author Posted July 6, 2011 Sure thing. I'll go and check it out tomorrow and get back to you. I can't even be sure it was a Sansui amp, I just know is was ~80s and should have been decent for it's time.
ronascension Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 (edited) Have a look at www.adelaidespeakers.com. I am an owner of some Standmounts and Centre speakers - great sounding speakers for a good price. Ron. Edited July 6, 2011 by ronascension
Boots-n-All Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 Hi there, Tough call - I'd suggest having a look at the Adelaide Speakers site ( adelaidespeakers.com.au ) one of Edward's flat panel designs might fit the bill - they're designed to be placed flat against the wall (rather than stand-mount) and you could certainly get within budget (delivered to Hobart) - not so sure about the "designer" aspect though. Boots.
Paul Spencer Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 HK, Question: What is the worst possible shape of a room? Answer: A sphere! Both in bass and midrange, it's a complete disaster Question: What is the next worst possible shape of a room? Answer: A small cube! Almost as bad as a sphere. Your friend has a real challenge on his hands. To tame the damage he will need to keep the speakers out of the corners. If your friend can be talked into a little bit of room treatment, he can really improve things. Small rooms, especially small cubic rooms really bugger things up. In terms of speakers, a popular small cheap choice are Wharfedale Diamonds and they are probably not too hard to find to audition. Chances are your friend can find some decend stand mounts at the local hifi store. He should avoid paying too much for fancy stands, you can get affordable ones quite easily. Check out the classifieds here as well. A stand mount is probably the safest choice in a small room that is going to have all kinds of problems acoustically.
wolster Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 There is sure to be some good value in the classifieds. These would have been ideal. If your mate can stretch the budget. And these are well within budget. Just a smattering of offerings from the rich offerings in SNA classifieds :-)
Under Hifi Posted July 6, 2011 Author Posted July 6, 2011 (edited) Thanks Ron and Boots. Two recommendations for a company within 20 minutes of themselves is a pretty safe bet by my standards. I also know for a fact that the guy I am buying for will be pleased by the fact that they are made and designed here in Aus and built from timber that isn't sourched from old growth forests! I for one am wondering how/why I have never stumbled across this website before... I really had no idea people were producing loudspeakers here. I'll keep mulling this all over and work out most of the options This for me is the exciting phase. EDIT: Jeez typing a response and then getting distracted before hitting post is not a good thing. Thanks for pointing out what we're up against with the room Paul. I figured a cube wouldn't be the best but it's what he has... So when you say out of the corners by how far are we talking? Something like 1m on each side? The problem is there are big glass doors in the middle of the wall which he was planning to mount the speakers on. So moving them inwards from the corners isn't really an option. My friend is away in NZ at the moment and won't be back for a few weeks so I've got until then to produce some offerings. No real rush by any means. As for the smatterings wolster, thanks for those links. Second hand is something I'm certainly into and I hope to have a better look at what there is for offer in the coming days. I'll also try and snag a photo of the room. Then you guys can get a better idea of how it's set up. Edited July 6, 2011 by Hero Kid
davewantsmoore Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 any decent hifi stores here worth checking out down here? No...... Quantum, but it sounds like you've already been there ;-) ... I know one of their installers, and some of the people (not sales drones) there DO know their stuff a bit, but they are expensive, and they will try to sell you Bose/B&W. B&W or Tannoy bookshelves? ... Well known Decware DM945 (surely could be landed for well < 1000) ... Will have great sensitivity Adelaide Speakers ... if he is happy with the look, they're definitely function over form (I'm an owner, but my budget had to go to sound rather than looks) Depends on how much volume and/or what style of music he wants.
Paul Spencer Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 General rule of thumb, he should try to keep the offsets from the 2 nearest walls different, speakers pointing in towards listening position. Too close to the walls and the sound gets muddy and confused. Too far into the room and you are listening too close or it just isn't practical. So you just have to try things and work out the best mix. One example might be speakers 2m apart (half a metre from side walls), then perhaps about 0.8m from the wall behind. If the speakers back onto the short wall, then you can avoid sitting up against the rear wall, but probably want to avoid sitting closer to the speakers than about 2.5m on the diagonal. All a bit of a balancing act. And of course, with practical limits in mind all this could go out the window.
Under Hifi Posted July 8, 2011 Author Posted July 8, 2011 Thanks for the detailed explanation Paul. You've now got me thinking about how (poorly) my own rig is set up... perhaps I'll make a separate thread asking for tips in the future for that It turns out the amp is in fact a AKAI AM-U3 from the early 80s which is apparently quite powerful for its rated wattage. Not a Sansui at all! OK so back to the problem at hand. Here is a quick knock up of the room I made. That is (roughly) how the room is set up. It's not by any means a dedicated listening room and it's practical downfalls are hard to overlook. It is worth explaining that the door opens inwards following the track of the arrow I drew and they're nearly always left open. Also the glass doors at the far side open out onto a deck which then leads into the garden. I hope that sets the scene a bit for you. When I had a quick chat with my friend about what he was envisaging he indicated that he would like to have the speakers where they are indicated in the diagram. That way he could use them for parties outside as well as casual listening (I really don't know where he hopes to sit to listen to this rig!). The door leads to the living room where they seem to spend most of their time so maybe he is thinking he will sit in there and listen? I'll have to ask him when he gets back from NZ on the 17th. I can't see him changing the position of the table or the sideboard, so if they had to stay where they currently are, where would you locate the speakers? It's going to be a compromise no matter what you do... I suppose what you have to hope for is the "best" compromise. Any takers?
ronascension Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) Thanks Ron and Boots. Two recommendations for a company within 20 minutes of themselves is a pretty safe bet by my standards. I also know for a fact that the guy I am buying for will be pleased by the fact that they are made and designed here in Aus and built from timber that isn't sourched from old growth forests! I for one am wondering how/why I have never stumbled across this website before... I really had no idea people were producing loudspeakers here. I'll keep mulling this all over and work out most of the options This for me is the exciting phase. EDIT: Jeez typing a response and then getting distracted before hitting post is not a good thing. Thanks for pointing out what we're up against with the room Paul. I figured a cube wouldn't be the best but it's what he has... So when you say out of the corners by how far are we talking? Something like 1m on each side? The problem is there are big glass doors in the middle of the wall which he was planning to mount the speakers on. So moving them inwards from the corners isn't really an option. My friend is away in NZ at the moment and won't be back for a few weeks so I've got until then to produce some offerings. No real rush by any means. As for the smatterings wolster, thanks for those links. Second hand is something I'm certainly into and I hope to have a better look at what there is for offer in the coming days. I'll also try and snag a photo of the room. Then you guys can get a better idea of how it's set up. I found Adelaidespeakers website by chance while googling "speakers adelaide" last year when I was looking for some speakers to be made up, instead of buying retail and spending x2-x3 in the price. I also found this great forum SNA as well, by chance. YES -> donate or/and Paid Membership to keep the forum going for everyone for years to come. I know I have grown in my audio knowledge thanks to this forum. Ron. Edited July 8, 2011 by ronascension
Telecine Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 I think that the best compromise would be to place some standmount speakers either side of the sideboard.
Paul Spencer Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Headphones! I think that the best compromise would be to place some standmount speakers either side of the sideboard. It's just about the only option. Where else could they sit that doesn't involve shifting things each time? I still have an Akai AMU33 (I think that's what it is) although it's no longer working. Es ist kaput!
Under Hifi Posted July 9, 2011 Author Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) Headphones!It's just about the only option. Where else could they sit that doesn't involve shifting things each time? Ha headphones can certainly prove to be a savior in some cases (I for one have a plan to utilize a pair of Audeze LCD-2s). I think the only other possible options would be to wall mount OR to place them in their proposed position but on stands rather than the wall. Do either of these (other) options stand up against the alternative (Telecine's proposition)? Edited July 9, 2011 by Hero Kid
Paul Spencer Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Do keep in mind that some speakers will sound muddy with wall mounting or being near a wall. Others are just fine, it depends on whether the crossover has bafflestep compensation in it. As a rough guess, speakers that are intended to be placed into a room will tend to have bafflestep and sound muddy near a wall. Speakers designed with the intention that they will be near a wall won't have the problem.
Guest Peter the Greek Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 You can buy my half price (a little more then your budget though), brand new Vaf soundwall to go there In a corner like that I'd straddle them from corner to corner or put an asborper on the walls immediate to the left and right
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