PKay Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 @Taxwhat a magnificent work of art and functional too boot. This turntable is one of the finest 401s that I have seen. How does it sound?
Full Range Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 8 hours ago, Tax said: Thanks Ash! Finally finished the project today. Here are the photos. Well done mate You have outdone yourself on this project May I wish you many hours of listening for pleasure You need to report back again with listening impressions
Tax Posted November 5, 2020 Author Posted November 5, 2020 11 hours ago, PKay said: @Taxwhat a magnificent work of art and functional too boot. This turntable is one of the finest 401s that I have seen. How does it sound? Thank you! Going to play around with some SRA snd VTF this weekend to get a feel for its capabilities. Will provide an update on sound thereafter. 1
Tax Posted November 5, 2020 Author Posted November 5, 2020 10 hours ago, Full Range said: Well done mate You have outdone yourself on this project May I wish you many hours of listening for pleasure You need to report back again with listening impressions Thanks P! I must acknowledge and thank@Doppelganger @Gandra @klackto @nevillekapadia and yourself as my initial advisory panel on this 401 project. My thanks also to all the members who kindly shared their experience and advice via this thread and PM. 2
Gandra Posted November 5, 2020 Posted November 5, 2020 Wow, this is one seriously beautiful table!! Enjoy!
Tax Posted November 6, 2020 Author Posted November 6, 2020 On 05/11/2020 at 2:52 PM, scuzzii said: wow - looks amazing. I can only imagine what it looks like in the flesh Thank you! 5 hours ago, Gandra said: Wow, this is one seriously beautiful table!! Enjoy! Thank you! 1
Doppelganger Posted November 7, 2020 Posted November 7, 2020 Beautiful work, Taksil! Looks stunning and I’m sure it sounds wonderful!
Tax Posted November 9, 2020 Author Posted November 9, 2020 On 08/11/2020 at 9:34 AM, Doppelganger said: Beautiful work, Taksil! Looks stunning and I’m sure it sounds wonderful! @Doppelganger Thank you for advising and persuading me to take a chance on the 401 when the chassis unit came up for sale on Gumtree. 3
Tax Posted February 11, 2021 Author Posted February 11, 2021 With the arrival of the Ikeda 407 tonearm today I am relieved that my Garrard 401 project is finally completed 9 1
Full Range Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 I love my Garrard 401 And I can say that your build is a thing of beauty I know a great deal of thought went into it - well done mate 1
Tax Posted February 14, 2021 Author Posted February 14, 2021 On 13/02/2021 at 1:17 PM, Full Range said: I love my Garrard 401 And I can say that your build is a thing of beauty I know a great deal of thought went into it - well done mate Thanks Mate!
Tax Posted May 30, 2022 Author Posted May 30, 2022 Finally ended up with installing both SPU cartridges on my 401 2 1
rx7rotary Posted May 25, 2023 Posted May 25, 2023 On 25/09/2020 at 11:18 PM, TD19 said: I have replacement control panel faceplates .... replacement is the top one, above an original faceplate: Bump in the thread @TD19do you still have these faceplates? Cheers, Marko
mr_gray Posted January 10, 2024 Posted January 10, 2024 (edited) hi. don't know if this is the best place for it but we'll have a go. i just started using a garrard 401 i bought 3 years ago. i have a tonearm installed and i am very much enjoying the 401. before i got it it had been refurbed by a chap down in SA who then on sold it to a Hallets Cove Gum Tree guy (lots of audio stuff for sale). refurb seems to have included 1. audio silente idler wheel 2. new platter (SMD aluminium i think) 3. new bearing (SMD it looks to be). it sounds great. i do think it could be quieter. it is on a wall mounted rack so has great isolation from my floors. little stick on rubber feet only. birch plinth that looks to be a bit of a budget number. 16 kg all up. i was thinking i would put in on Gaia 3's. Bryan Fletcher in Sydney (Audio Note) is a dealer for those and might even help me install them if I am lucky. But sometimes when the platter is free spinning after I have powered off (brake is removed), i hear a "screech". Minor one but screech nonetheless. Also it is very hard to remove my platter. It almost seems bound with the spindle. Is this normal? I have only been listening to this table for a month and it is a new arm and overall I think it sounds really good. It does have a slight hardness/grit and I presume this could be due to noise. My Plan moving forward is to try and optimise it. So I thought I might: 1. install Gaia feet (need to insert threads for this and all sorts of faffing and cost) But what should be next step? A power supply? Send it off for a check/maintenance (is there anyone who offers that for Garrard 401?). Should I re-plinth it maybe (total mass is 16 kg so not exactly high mass). On other hand at 16kg it sits on my wall mounted rack and that is excellent since I have timber floors and heavy people stomping about. [img]https://i.imgur.com/QFVbeFj.jpg[/img] Edited January 10, 2024 by mr_gray
mr_gray Posted May 12, 2024 Posted May 12, 2024 shamefully i am replying to myself but i figured might as well update what i have done with the 401 as it has been quite successful and i would recommend others could also see this as an option. many tweaks not horrible expensive at all. so from classic turntable company i got the brass motor pulley. install was very simple. didn't notice a world of difference. then i got the eddy brake from same place. took me months to install as i didn't know how. got bored one night and gave it a shot. easy. made huge difference. god know why. a friend recommended the vertere mat. i did that. huge difference. much less noise. great tweak. then i had gaia feet on it. this really worked and sounded brilliant. eventually though i got bitten and bought CMS Ultra TT footers. WOW. cost more than table did but absolutely worth it. amazing sound. around this time i received a SUT i had ordered and installed the iOgold on it. this showed that the 401 can do it all. finally and most recently i bought the MCRU Long Dog Audio PSU. installing this was easy and shocking. it sounded slightly better but this intensified over first 10 hours of play. so stable and quiet. suddenly i could hear a level deeper if not more. putting a good power cord into the LDA PSU also made it even better which is groan inducing but just a fact. one thing left to do is to install a classic turntable company brass spindle and then a shindo style platter. this will increase rotating mass and also wow/flutter hopefully. readings currently are variable but < 0.2%. also i am hoping dohmann will make me a clamp to try out. overall i can't say much about where i am relative to say an expensive table. but each upgrade has yielded a result for me that has been significant. i started with a 2k reconditioned table that was quite romantic in its sound to what is now an extremely quiet and dynamic powerhouse. 4
marcusD Posted May 21, 2024 Posted May 21, 2024 If you are getting 0.2% on wow and flutter that’s good , but is that wow RMS? Sounds like your table is performing well, a Shindo brass platter might be a touch large for a 401 because of the strobe, but hey it’s up to you
mr_gray Posted May 22, 2024 Posted May 22, 2024 hi @marcusD i'm not sure about the rms bit. it is an app called "RPM" that provides the measurement of W/F. re: the "shindo" platter it is a platter made by Classic Turntable Company that is "shindo" like and so apparently will fit on the 401. that said if the strobe had to be removed thats ok as i don't have a use for it anyway since i am using unmarked platters. the Long Dog Audio power supply is a great upgrade i think. perhaps it removes character slightly but thetre is no doubt i think it makes for better less pitchy play back.
Full Range Posted May 22, 2024 Posted May 22, 2024 On 10/1/2024 at 11:38 AM, mr_gray said: But sometimes when the platter is free spinning after I have powered off (brake is removed), i hear a "screech". Minor one but screech nonetheless. Also it is very hard to remove my platter. It almost seems bound with the spindle. Is this normal? The brake pad on the Garrard 301/401 is a replaceable part It is a cylindrical 1cm long piece of felt - and since you have removed the platter you should have seen it. If still intact I can be repositioned or you can make one DIY https://www.classichifi-shop.co.uk/product/garrard-401-brake/ 1
marcusD Posted May 22, 2024 Posted May 22, 2024 27 minutes ago, mr_gray said: hi @marcusD i'm not sure about the rms bit. it is an app called "RPM" that provides the measurement of W/F. re: the "shindo" platter it is a platter made by Classic Turntable Company that is "shindo" like and so apparently will fit on the 401. that said if the strobe had to be removed thats ok as i don't have a use for it anyway since i am using unmarked platters. the Long Dog Audio power supply is a great upgrade i think. perhaps it removes character slightly but thetre is no doubt i think it makes for better less pitchy play back. Ok, I find most of the phone apps to be a bit hit and miss re accurate numbers, but its a good starting point. 0.02 is slightly lower than the factory spec and TBH is about as good as you can get as a Sigma measurement on any idler table. It can be handy to get sperate WOW and flutter numbers and a combined RMS number to see if you need to make adjustments but I dont know what app offers that level of detail 1
mr_gray Posted May 28, 2024 Posted May 28, 2024 Further Garrard 401 Upgrades I am currently upgrading a $2k Garrard 401 i bought from Gumtree many years ago. It had previously been overhauled with some nice mid level SMD stuff. Below I describe installing a new 13 kg brass platter I bought from Classic Turntable Company. It is described as being in the style of the late great Shindo who famously did a bunch of stuff to garrard 301s to transform the quality of their output. Classic Turntable Company "shindo" platter is now installed. it was sent straight from factory. it weighed more than i was prepared for (13 kgs). shocking. there is something about brass. feels much heavier than it is. It was exactly same height as the SMD aluminium platter it was replacing. it made the smd platter seem like a sad thing though once i polished it up for selling off it had regained sone dignity. the new platter is recessed on top and this allows for use of a mat. i tried the Spec mat i have but didn't fit so went back to the vertere. In measuring the impact the new platter had on error and w/f it was quite stark. instantly w/f was 25-50% less (so around 0.20% went to between 0.15 and 0.10%). it seems the previous platter was relatively eccentric as inaccuracy would oscillate above and below a mean whereas now it is very tightly bound to whatever number it runs (precision is improved). "accuracy" becomes up to me really as if i adjust it to 33.3, it will stay there (because it is now precise) i should note that putting this heavy platter on standard garrard bearing is not recommended and can sound terrible (or so i am told by Ray at CTC). i have a steel SMD bearing already and it seems to work a treat. i do have a brass spindle from CTC on the way as well as a copper mat which will neatly fit into the new platter and apparently redefine the game (though the Spec mat seemed very good so we will see). Anyway how does it sound? A stark difference. You can hear the weight. Crashing dynamics on drums. Joan Armatrading's "Me Myself I" has some fantastic drums on it. Sound very live and analog and could give Albini a run for his money if you ask me. Shocking to hear how the new platter makes it sound so forceful and violent. So yadda yadda, lower noise floor, better dynamics. certainly better coherence. i was worried it would get more "blurgh" as i did more to remove the Garrardness of it - however i think the Garrardness was forcibly evicted when i put a very precise resonance free tonearm on it. it all seems like upside everytime i do something to it. alot of fun! i have an old hendrix record Electric Ladyland (terrible condition really) but it still mostly plays thru and i like to avoid re-issue vinyl if i can. anyway i listened to side 2 of 4. it was shocking how free and open it sounded. utterly removed from the stereo/speakers and without any harshness whatsoever. it had never sounded like that before. i feel like the combo of idler grip and torque accentuated by the platter mass is a very heady combo that takes the Idler to a very great place re: dynamics. i am of opinion stylus drag is what is being addressed and to me it seems to indicate that stylus drag is not adequately addressed by other solutions. no 2D casting of flatness but instead alot of energy pushed into the room in dynamic sequences. drums that aren't a considered moment but that "happen" to you. the copper mat will add another 2.75 kg unless i am mistaken which is not insignificant (although being less at rim than in centre effect is less). but of course the real interest for me will be how a copper mat sounds. and of course if the CTC brass spindle is a marked improvement on the existing SMD steel bearing. 5
marcusD Posted May 28, 2024 Posted May 28, 2024 24 minutes ago, mr_gray said: Further Garrard 401 Upgrades I am currently upgrading a $2k Garrard 401 i bought from Gumtree many years ago. It had previously been overhauled with some nice mid level SMD stuff. Below I describe installing a new 13 kg brass platter I bought from Classic Turntable Company. It is described as being in the style of the late great Shindo who famously did a bunch of stuff to garrard 301s to transform the quality of their output. Classic Turntable Company "shindo" platter is now installed. it was sent straight from factory. it weighed more than i was prepared for (13 kgs). shocking. there is something about brass. feels much heavier than it is. It was exactly same height as the SMD aluminium platter it was replacing. it made the smd platter seem like a sad thing though once i polished it up for selling off it had regained sone dignity. the new platter is recessed on top and this allows for use of a mat. i tried the Spec mat i have but didn't fit so went back to the vertere. In measuring the impact the new platter had on error and w/f it was quite stark. instantly w/f was 25-50% less (so around 0.20% went to between 0.15 and 0.10%). it seems the previous platter was relatively eccentric as inaccuracy would oscillate above and below a mean whereas now it is very tightly bound to whatever number it runs (precision is improved). "accuracy" becomes up to me really as if i adjust it to 33.3, it will stay there (because it is now precise) i should note that putting this heavy platter on standard garrard bearing is not recommended and can sound terrible (or so i am told by Ray at CTC). i have a steel SMD bearing already and it seems to work a treat. i do have a brass spindle from CTC on the way as well as a copper mat which will neatly fit into the new platter and apparently redefine the game (though the Spec mat seemed very good so we will see). Anyway how does it sound? A stark difference. You can hear the weight. Crashing dynamics on drums. Joan Armatrading's "Me Myself I" has some fantastic drums on it. Sound very live and analog and could give Albini a run for his money if you ask me. Shocking to hear how the new platter makes it sound so forceful and violent. So yadda yadda, lower noise floor, better dynamics. certainly better coherence. i was worried it would get more "blurgh" as i did more to remove the Garrardness of it - however i think the Garrardness was forcibly evicted when i put a very precise resonance free tonearm on it. it all seems like upside everytime i do something to it. alot of fun! i have an old hendrix record Electric Ladyland (terrible condition really) but it still mostly plays thru and i like to avoid re-issue vinyl if i can. anyway i listened to side 2 of 4. it was shocking how free and open it sounded. utterly removed from the stereo/speakers and without any harshness whatsoever. it had never sounded like that before. i feel like the combo of idler grip and torque accentuated by the platter mass is a very heady combo that takes the Idler to a very great place re: dynamics. i am of opinion stylus drag is what is being addressed and to me it seems to indicate that stylus drag is not adequately addressed by other solutions. no 2D casting of flatness but instead alot of energy pushed into the room in dynamic sequences. drums that aren't a considered moment but that "happen" to you. the copper mat will add another 2.75 kg unless i am mistaken which is not insignificant (although being less at rim than in centre effect is less). but of course the real interest for me will be how a copper mat sounds. and of course if the CTC brass spindle is a marked improvement on the existing SMD steel bearing. Which copper mat are you getting?
mr_gray Posted May 28, 2024 Posted May 28, 2024 (edited) it is here https://www.classichifi-shop.co.uk/product/garrard-301-401-shindo-style-brass-platter-with-copper/ mat is 296 mm in dia. and 4.5 mm thick and fits neatly into same sized recess carved into top of "shindo" esque platter (shown below). Edited May 28, 2024 by mr_gray 1 1
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