Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Hi everyone, thank you for the kind advice to date.

 

The 401 project is progressing well. I have been collecting some bits and pieces from the various Garrard stores in the UK such as new faceplate, chrome knobs to match the Oyaide platter matter, some o rings to damp the original platter, some longer mounting bolts, some oil washers and some circlips and a new gasket etc

 

I would appreciate some advice on tonearm cut outs/mounting mechanisms etc.

 

In relation to the tonearm mount, I am thinking of a 40mm hole in the top 100mm of the stacked hardwood plinth and inserting (from the top) a solid bronze tonearm rod/pillar that will be embedded in the wooden plinth.

 

A bronze armboard pre drilled for the relevant tonearm will bolted onto the rod pillar similar to the arrangement in the big micro seiki turntables. The rod/pillar itself will be bolted to the bottom layer of the stacked plinth from underneath the plinth.

 

I am considering this mounting option as theoretically I should then be able to literally interchange any of my tonearms between my Micro Seiki TT and the 401 by simply setting up the P2S on either TT without having to change any of the other cartridge related set up parameters.

 

???? I am uncertain of whether the rod/pillar should touch the sides of the upper layers of the plinth or whether I should keep a clearance around the pillar/rod and just bolt it to the very bottom layer of the plinth so that the motor and arm have a similar connection ????

 

I can use some elastomer rubber at the base of the pillar so there is a wood, rubber, bronze interface to break up any vibrations. 

 

What do you think? would this work?

 

Appreciate your feedback

Thanks

 

Edited by Tax

Posted

A solid fixing for the tonearm combined with damping and isolation from the TT motor. It's a tough one. Pondering this for my own 401 project. Say if the armboard was attached with a clamping mechanism, where the surfaces of the clamp were isolated from the plinth top and bottom with whatever.... The bolts would not need to contact the plinth itself, only the clamping surfaces, which are isolated from the plinth with...? Make sense? 

Posted
6 hours ago, Tax said:

In relation to the tonearm mount, I am thinking of a 40mm hole in the top 100mm of the stacked hardwood plinth and inserting (from the top) a solid bronze tonearm rod/pillar that will be embedded in the wooden plinth.

 

A bronze armboard pre drilled for the relevant tonearm will bolted onto the rod pillar similar to the arrangement in the big micro seiki turntables. The rod/pillar itself will be bolted to the bottom layer of the stacked plinth from underneath the plinth.

 

I am considering this mounting option as theoretically I should then be able to literally interchange any of my tonearms between my Micro Seiki TT and the 401 by simply setting up the P2S on either TT without having to change any of the other cartridge related set up parameters.

Wow, that seems like a lot of work for little gain. 

 

If the plinth is well built then why not use different armboards for each arm, with each board being unscrewed/unbolted with the arm attached and the board with different arm dropped in and screwed/bolted in place as I did with my Lenco.  

DSC08442 (Medium).JPG

DSC08425 (Medium).JPG

DSC08435 (Medium).JPG

DSC08448 (Medium).JPG

Posted
5 minutes ago, Peter_F said:

Wow, that seems like a lot of work for little gain. 

 

If the plinth is well built then why not use different armboards for each arm, with each board being unscrewed/unbolted with the arm attached and the board with different arm dropped in and screwed/bolted in place as I did with my Lenco.  

DSC08442 (Medium).JPG

DSC08425 (Medium).JPG

 

Thanks for the advice and photos! Looks like a good option.

 

I wanted a smaller foot print for my plinth approx 425mm wide which then had limitations in the mounting radius for a 12 inch tonearm, hence my having to go for this option which is more costly but hopeful consolation is that it does allow for interchanging of arms across two TT's and the bronze pillars and armboards will add to the smaller plinths mass.


Given this context, my primary question is whether I should recess the pillar/post snug into the plinth (as in pressure fit) or leave a couple of mm void between the post and plinth? 


Either way the pillar will be bolted to the bottom layer of the plinth.

 

Posted
57 minutes ago, Soundscape said:

A solid fixing for the tonearm combined with damping and isolation from the TT motor. It's a tough one. Pondering this for my own 401 project. Say if the armboard was attached with a clamping mechanism, where the surfaces of the clamp were isolated from the plinth top and bottom with whatever.... The bolts would not need to contact the plinth itself, only the clamping surfaces, which are isolated from the plinth with...? Make sense? 

Thanks!

 

I am grappling with whether I should recess the pillar/post snug into the home in the plinth (as in pressure fit) or leave a couple of mm void between the rod and the sides of the hole in the plinth

Posted

The method I'm Imaguning woul require the shaft to have no contact with the plinth. But for that to be meaningful it would mean that whatever contact the structure had with the plinth would be isolated by a soft "bearing" material, like a small sheet of rubber. I'll have to sketch it up but the same principle could be applied to another method, imo. I can't see any advantage of the pressure fit unless the plinth is so we'll damped that it would render the idea of isolating the tonearm from the plinth irrelevant. 

Posted

Another way to look at it would be to split the plinth in two sections, either vertically or horizontally, where one section bears the turntable chassis and the other holds the tonearm/s, and there is a layer of effective isolation in between the sections. Food for thought? 

Posted

I have a good friend who is a stone mason. He has a big pile of ironstone in his back yard. I popped in a few weeks ago to pick out a slab. He's eventually going to carve out a Garrard 401 plinth for me from that slab. It's going to be stupidly heavy, incredibly well damped, possess electrical screening properties and look frigging amazing to boot..... It may take some years to come to fruition but this beast will be absolutely one of a kind. 

 

I should have taken a photo of the damn slab ?

  • Like 1
Posted
19 hours ago, Soundscape said:

The method I'm Imaguning woul require the shaft to have no contact with the plinth. But for that to be meaningful it would mean that whatever contact the structure had with the plinth would be isolated by a soft "bearing" material, like a small sheet of rubber. I'll have to sketch it up but the same principle could be applied to another method, imo. I can't see any advantage of the pressure fit unless the plinth is so we'll damped that it would render the idea of isolating the tonearm from the plinth irrelevant. 

Hi Soundscape,

 

Earlier today and in consultation with @denimhunter I decided that I am going to try and minimise contact with the plinth.

 

Yes, when I studied my Micro Seiki I realised that the MS engineers (thinkers and designers ahead of their time = Respect) had actually kept the motor separate which then enabled them to have the spindle, platter, plinth, tonearm coupling rigid.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience on this.

 

  • Like 1

Posted

Hi Tax, I agree that isolating the tonearm rather than coupling would give the best results in the case of an idler driven TT, and I'll be watching with interest to see how you achieve that. 

Cheers! 

Dave

  • Like 1
Posted
On 22/09/2020 at 4:16 AM, 65eclipse said:

Hi Tax,

Enjoying the thread,

Could you please give me your opinion on the difference between the herbies and Gai 3s ?

 

Metalbeat, was there a significant difference when you replaced your old platter with the Artisan fidelity copper platter?

I've been drooling over them for years.

 

Just for the record, I manufactured a few platters for 301"s and 401's a couple of years ago out of 6061 Ally and just the billets cost $125.00 each.

IMG_0555.jpg

IMG_0557.jpg

IMG_0550.jpg

Looks beautiful,  I have a 401 too that I love, I have both the original idle wheel and one from AF that I use 99% of the time, what would you sell a platter for?

428B8CD0-4BF8-4943-BE15-9AA346C4B06C.jpeg

Posted

Picked up the gun metal tonearm pillars from the machinist today.

 

They weigh about a Kg each. The armboards will also weigh about the same so should offer a good foundation for the tonearms once mounted.

656F88F8-61E8-4E99-AB65-4BE227CCE58C.jpeg

  • Like 3
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

The new one piece chrome knobs and new face plate now in place.

 

Have cleaned the spindle housing, spindle and thrust pad with Isopropyl alcohol. Need to buy some oil over the weekend.

 

3993038E-8E49-46AE-9604-932959C82549.jpeg

  • Like 2
Posted
43 minutes ago, Tax said:

 

Need to buy some oil over the weekend.

 

 

Aah but which oil?  ("Oils ain't oils"!  xD )

 

Andy

 

Posted
1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

Aah but which oil?  ("Oils ain't oils"!  xD )

 

Andy

 

I thought we did a pretty good job on that a while back.  Monograde SAE 20 to 30 with no additives.  Best bet is Compressor oil.  Synthetic may be better.  I got a litre bottle (not synthetic) for about $10 from Tradetools. 

  • Like 1
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

A weekend of sanding and polishing.

 

Here is the plinth with a second coat of oil.

0EA7BB41-0FAB-485C-92A7-312400A96FCC.jpeg

 

Edited by Tax
  • Like 4
  • Love 1
Posted
15 minutes ago, Tax said:

A weekend of sanding and polishing.

 

Here is the plinth with a second coat of oil.

 

0EA7BB41-0FAB-485C-92A7-312400A96FCC.jpeg

04993F55-5551-482E-BC90-92AD7E4C89CF.jpeg

 

Sensational!  :thumb:  I bet it will sound as good as it looks!

 

How many more coats of oil to go?

 

Andy

 

Posted
1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

Sensational!  :thumb:  I bet it will sound as good as it looks!

 

How many more coats of oil to go?

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy!

 

I am going to rub it back tomorrow and apply a 3rd coat and then decide whether it needs more or whether I just buff it out. I am after a low sheen that shows the natural wood rather than a full reflective finish like is the case in the Artisan and Woodsong plinths where they have given the veneer a poly.

Posted
1 hour ago, crtexcnndrm99 said:

Looks great! I missed it - was this Permali or some other wood?

Thanks Crtxnd99!

 

It is 7 layers of hardwood. The bottom and top layers are Tasmanian Blackwood and the 5 layers in between are Redgum set in opposing directions hence the difference in grain pattern.

 

Each layer of the hardwood had to be glued using biscuits to make up the necessary width and depth (IIRC its is 450mm X 410mm). These layers were then stacked with the wood grain of each layer going in an opposing direction of the layer above and below it (side to side, front to back, side to side etc) and glued and pressed together.

 

I had some Marigo audio absorption dots left over from a previous project which are now embedded between the top layer and again before the bottom layer. Just trying different ideas to dissipate any energy buildup from the motor into the plinth. 

 

I am hoping the the 401 chassis and musical output of this idler is worth the significant effort of this project.

  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, Tax said:

Thanks Crtxnd99!

 

It is 7 layers of hardwood. The bottom and top layers are Tasmanian Blackwood and the 5 layers in between are Redgum set in opposing directions hence the difference in grain pattern.

 

Each layer of the hardwood had to be glued using biscuits to make up the necessary width and depth (IIRC its is 450mm X 410mm). These layers were then stacked with the wood grain of each layer going in an opposing direction of the layer above and below it (side to side, front to back, side to side etc) and glued and pressed together.

 

I had some Marigo audio absorption dots left over from a previous project which are now embedded between the top layer and again before the bottom layer. Just trying different ideas to dissipate any energy buildup from the motor into the plinth. 

 

I am hoping the the 401 chassis and musical output of this idler is worth the significant effort of this project.

Wowsers significant effort, no doubt about that! 

 

Well given I’ve had promising results from my comparatively basic Loricraft style plinth, I’m confident it will sound awesome. If it’s like many reports of heavier plinth users (mostly on lencoheaven), the accompanying feet may play a large role in tuning - something to look forward to ;) 


Keep the pics coming ?

 

Cheers

Ash 

Posted
On 02/11/2020 at 3:35 PM, crtexcnndrm99 said:

Wowsers significant effort, no doubt about that! 

 

Well given I’ve had promising results from my comparatively basic Loricraft style plinth, I’m confident it will sound awesome. If it’s like many reports of heavier plinth users (mostly on lencoheaven), the accompanying feet may play a large role in tuning - something to look forward to ;) 


Keep the pics coming ?

 

Cheers

Ash 

Thanks Ash!

 

Finally finished the project today. Here are the photos.

D2B2781E-BC06-46D2-BE07-9EDFB2CCC464.jpeg

12DDD8BE-6B9E-42B4-87AA-F4BD4240934B.jpeg

FDDD6D7A-9B77-4076-89C2-9B78CF11A311.jpeg

  • Like 9
  • Love 1
Posted
26 minutes ago, Tax said:

Thanks Ash!

 

Finally finished the project today. Here are the photos.

D2B2781E-BC06-46D2-BE07-9EDFB2CCC464.jpeg

12DDD8BE-6B9E-42B4-87AA-F4BD4240934B.jpeg

FDDD6D7A-9B77-4076-89C2-9B78CF11A311.jpeg

wow - looks amazing.  I can only imagine what it looks like in the flesh

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...
To Top