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Ethernet Routers for Audio


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5 hours ago, Hydrology said:


Why don’t you develop a relationship with a dealer (if you don’t already have one) and borrow something to try in your system? No purchasing bias and if after you’re not convinced, no foul.

 

I hardly wanted a $4,000 switch to make any difference in my system - there’s lot of things I could’ve bought with that money that has less “risky” effects of just being snake oil.

Dealers
Would that involve spending mucho $$ before developing relationship?

did that once before then married her 🤭

 

Seriously though I don’t spend any time in audio outlet anymore so it may be difficult now.

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16 hours ago, BugPowderDust said:

I find it amusing that people feel the need to pressure test someone else’s qualifications on here

 

Nah, I think it's fine.    It's not an unreasonable question if genuine (which it sometimes might not really be, but let's assume the best).

 

Some guy is banging on about "tecnical things" that he makes to see very important, etc. etc. 

 

Others have no idea what he's talking about or if it's important.   Where is he pulling this stuff from?!!!?

 

 

 

Of course... the danger is the logical falacy of an appeal to authority.   He may be a "highly qualified moron".    He might be the CEO of Cisco, and have zero idea about audio..... he might be a completely unqualified expert.    The world is not simple.

 

 

16 hours ago, BugPowderDust said:

but the listening experiences of someone in an uncontrolled environment must be taken as gospel and real. 

Again, not simple.

 

It would IMVHO be a mistake to put too much faith in such claims of the experience of others..... and what I think better serves people looking to design audio systems is "what would be a better appoach to getting good sound, something, or something else".

 

but each to their own, it takes all types :) 

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2 minutes ago, Godot said:

Like this? I’d love to have a listen but I’m too scared to try it and have to unretire!

BB261B72-7950-451F-96B7-4A9AAA3ADA52.png

 

I did listen and now I have one as well, as the Waversa Core2.  Wonderful!

John

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10 hours ago, Godot said:

Like this? I’d love to have a listen but I’m too scared to try it and have to unretire!

BB261B72-7950-451F-96B7-4A9AAA3ADA52.png

Let's not assume this is only a router.  Its name does not represent all that this oroducts is.  As I understand, it is 4 things in one:

  • router
  • switch (2 independent switches I believe)
  • wifi transmitter/receiver
  • renderer/streamer (and roon ready endpoint)

It also has a LPS and a separate battery power supply. And I gather it has 4 OCXO clocks!  Altogether quite a package and far from a regular router or even the likes of Ubiquiti Dream Machine Pro. 

 

I note it doesn't have fibre.

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I have now had the UniFi Dream Machine Pro router installed for 7 days.  I acquired the router solely for network management purposes and not audio sound otcomes.  I had no expectations about SQ.  At the time when I first posted about my listening experience I said:

The SQ is slightly better.  There is a little more light, air and depth in the sound stage.  I expect that there may be more minor SQ improvement as the Router settles in” 

 


Well to me there has been an improvement in the SQ.  Whether it is because of settling in, lower noise floor or faster aspects of the network or all three.  I cannot say.  There is now a noticeable benefit in SQ.  The air, light and depth are more obvious than they were seven days ago.

 

 

 

I know that there has been a benefit over the past 7 days.  If I stand on the upper level of my house over where my system is located, the bass is more nicely noticeable and pronounced than previously even though volume level setting is the same.  The Highs and Lows are less obvious as they do not come through the floor to the same extent.

 

 

My experience makes me ask a question?  My understanding is that the router is a quality product but it is not designed, engineered and or built for audio purposes as is the case with the switches that I have and have had.  Yet to me there is a SQ outcome.  Some members on this forum and other forums with a network, use quality switches also not designed for audio purposes.  I have not tried or experienced any of those switches.  I wonder what the outcome of a comparison would be?.  I have no space for any more switches.  Even to just try

John

 

Edited by Assisi
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12 minutes ago, Assisi said:

Well to me there has been an improvement in the SQ.  Whether it is because of settling in, lower noise floor or faster aspects of the network or all three.  I cannot say.  There is now a noticeable benefit in SQ. 

My guess is it is because the Dream Machine Pro is SFP+.  Check out its clock ... this little housing has its lid removed for this pic.

 

image.png.9cf46a7de05ab3d422b3164bd7dbf6b4.png

 

I can't find info about it.  My guess ii is likely better than the tiny ones in 1Gb switches and routers ... possibly Oven controlled.

 

The teardown pics are here ... 

https://fccid.io/SWX-UDMPRO/Internal-Photos/Internal-Photos-4365483#page=18&zoom=150,-4,744

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4 hours ago, dbastin said:

My guess is it is because the Dream Machine Pro is SFP+.  Check out its clock ... this little housing has its lid removed for this pic.

 

image.png.9cf46a7de05ab3d422b3164bd7dbf6b4.png

 

I can't find info about it.  My guess ii is likely better than the tiny ones in 1Gb switches and routers ... possibly Oven controlled.

 

The teardown pics are here ... 

https://fccid.io/SWX-UDMPRO/Internal-Photos/Internal-Photos-4365483#page=18&zoom=150,-4,744

I have not at all investigated any aspects of the componentry etc of the UniFi Dream Machine Pro router.  I do not know whether it has SFP+ or an OCXO clock.  I relied on the advice of others.   I have not yet tried the optical.  In terms of the OCXO maybe as the clock has been “on” for 7days and is therefore at the right temperature it is part of the explanation for the benefit outcome.  I do not like to turn any of my switches with OCXO off at any time.  Where I live Power outages can be a problem

What ever the reason for the SQ benefit it is becoming quite serious.  For me an excellent investment.

John

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16 hours ago, Assisi said:

I do not know whether it has SFP+

As I understand, if the device is 10Gb/SFP+ the whole circuit needs to meet that standard, so everything benefits, even 1Gbps data, even without using the fibre facility.  INcidentally 10Gb can be carried over copper cable that meets the necessary spec.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Gigabit_Ethernet

 

The Dream Machine Pro has:

 

WAN ports

• (1) 10G SFP+ port

• (1) Gigabit RJ45 port

 

LAN ports

• (1) 10G SFP+ port

• (8) Gigabit RJ45 ports

 

It is possible to use regular SFP modules in SFP+ inputs.  I gather SFP+, particularly industrial grade Finisar, modules are superior performance though.

 

You could try Dream Machine > fibre > Melco > etc

 

16 hours ago, Assisi said:

What ever the reason for the SQ benefit it is becoming quite serious.  For me an excellent investment.

Great news.  I predict the greatest improvement will be the low end will seem to become more lean and far more defined and its very low extension will be more apparent.

 

I bought the Mikrotik because it is powered by external PSU, so can use LPS.  However, it does not provide the following shields the Dream Machine does:

- main clock and its controller in a little shield box

- CPU and RAM in a larger shield (and heat sink) box.

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40 minutes ago, dbastin said:

As I understand, if the device is 10Gb/SFP+ the whole circuit needs to meet that standard, so everything benefits, even 1Gbps data, even without using the fibre facility.  INcidentally 10Gb can be carried over copper cable that meets the necessary spec.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Gigabit_Ethernet

 

The Dream Machine Pro has:

 

WAN ports

• (1) 10G SFP+ port

• (1) Gigabit RJ45 port

 

LAN ports

• (1) 10G SFP+ port

• (8) Gigabit RJ45 ports

 

It is possible to use regular SFP modules in SFP+ inputs.  I gather SFP+, particularly industrial grade Finisar, modules are superior performance though.

 

You could try Dream Machine > fibre > Melco > etc

 

Great news.  I predict the greatest improvement will be the low end will seem to become more lean and far more defined and its very low extension will be more apparent.

I think there are benefits to be had/explored with both enterprise routers and enterprise switches. I experienced what you have alluded to above with my Pakedge enterprise switch, tighter deeper bass - like a sledge hammer - as welll as a darker background and lower noise floor.

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5 hours ago, Niktech said:

I experienced what you have alluded to above with my Pakedge enterprise switch, tighter deeper bass - like a sledge hammer - as well as a darker background and lower noise floor.

I suspect you will be shocked how much better can can get with more improvements to your system, such as improving the Wireworld Chroma as your last link to the endpoint.  You think its deep and black now ...

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14 hours ago, dbastin said:

I suspect you will be shocked how much better can can get with more improvements to your system, such as improving the Wireworld Chroma as your last link to the endpoint.  You think its deep and black now ...

Yes, an ethernet cable upgrade is next on the list🙂

However, I am mindful of silver interconnects in

my system. I dislike brightness, the crispness,  and the emphasis on treble that comes with silver.     Hence the reason why I bought the Chroma, which is all copper.
 

 

Other recent additions to

system include a Bonn8 switch. A Kraftwerk II LPS is currently on its  way to power it.

 

I’m also mindful that online streaming is secondary to local playback of my library of files, so I don’t want to invest too heavily in ethernet audio.  🙂

 

Edited by Niktech
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  • 1 year later...


  • 2 months later...

Well, this is a rare event ... a router package assembled with the objective of best sound quality.

 

https://www.synergisticresearch.com/accessories/network-router-uef/

 

I say 'package assembled' because at its heart is a carefully chosen off the shelf router board (PCB) that has been integrated together with a number of Synergistic Research technologies all assembled into a neat chassis.  I have quite a collection of Synergistic Research products and can attest to the following technologies used in this router that are effective:

  • electromagnetic cell to condition AC entering the unit as well as the digital signal exiting the Network Router UEF.
  • electromagnetic conditioning cell (similar to a Tranquility Pod), 
  • passive ground conditioner (similar to an SR Ground Block). 
  • Carbon Fiber Tuning Disc affixed it to the circuit
  • Purple Fuse 

Products I have with these technologies are the passive and active ground blocks, Powercell 12 SE, Tranquillity PODS and Carbon Bases, Atmosphere SX speaker cables with carbon tuning disks, and Orange and Blue fuses.

 

I am a bit disappointed there is no fibre ports or mention of its clock.

 

I will pass on any info I can find out about it.

 

Typically with new products SR will get a couple of positive reviews and then release it with one of their monthly specials which include bonus products such as upgraded 'something' to go with it.  For instance, get a free ethernet cable or upgraded power cable.

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