bhall41 Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 I have been looking for a new pair of speakers on and off for at least 12 months. I have now decided I will purchase a pair of the PMC FB1i s, which I absolutely love - really engaging speakers, with excellent mid range and powerful bass response. I have heard them paired at Carlton Audio with both the Leema Pulse III and the Creek Destiny. The Leema was clearly superior to the Creek to my ears - just had more 'grip' and the Creek made the speakers sound bright. Carlton Audio thought that for $3,500 +/- the Leema Pulse was the best option for the PMCs. Apart from aesthethic consideration (the Leema in the current casing looks nasty and cheap, even in black) - they seem like a solid choice. My question is, are there any other amps (intergrated or otherwise) I should be seriously considering? I noticed that Bryston get a mention with PMC, but they are frankly over my budget. How about Naim Nait XS? I previously saw Earle, but am not sure whether the PMCs are sensitive enough for one his valve amps? Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Ben
Guest The Fresh Prince Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 I have heard PMC with Naim XS and it was very nice. I don't think valves would be the way to go with these speakers (but I'm no expert). As you've already mentioned, PMC and Bryston are supposed to be a great match (no personal experience)
andyr Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 Hi Ben, If a pre + power is a possibility, can I suggest you get in touch with Hugh Dean at AKSA and buy a (fully made-up) NAKSA100. This is not yet listed as a complete amp (only the modules and the case are) but I feel sure than Hugh would be interested in putting all the parts together for you. I am positive this would be a much better-sounding amp than the Leema ... and you said that was better than the Creek Destiny. But you would then have to find a pre. Regards, Andy
soundfan Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 I'd imagine Earl would have an amp to suit if you wanted to go the tube route. The PMC FB1i are 90db efficient.
houdinifangs Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 No need to rule the valves out. You just need the right ones. Perhaps try a valve/SS hybrid like the Unison Research Unico or a Rega. Both should be a little more relaxed than the Creek. Both also at CAV.
Tax Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 From memory, there was an Acurus by Mondial amp on the FS forum. Might work well given that PMC had a partnership with Bryston. I was an owner of the FB1, FB1+, TB1, TB1+' DB1+ speakers and have tried the OB1's in my home. I have also used the PMC's with Musical Fidelity amps.
Shmonk Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 Good choice (if I don't say so myself). Are you getting the signature version? I'm running mine with an Arcam A38. You might be be able to hear this combination at Carlton since I notice they have the A18 on their website. I'd be keen to hear your assessment of a direct comparison with the Leema Pulse. I've not heard a Bryston/PMC combo but they are reputed to be a good match. There is a Bryston 4B ST power amp on fleabay at the moment. Not knowing what sources you want to run, but it might be an option to do as some others here do and run a power amp such as this without a pre by attenuating the signal with a suitably equipped DAC. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bryston-4B-ST-Power-Amplifier-/310326913567?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item4840ecea1f#ht_1297wt_922
bhall41 Posted June 22, 2011 Author Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) I have heard PMC with Naim XS and it was very nice.I don't think valves would be the way to go with these speakers (but I'm no expert). As you've already mentioned, PMC and Bryston are supposed to be a great match (no personal experience) Thanks teddyboy, do you have any idea where I can audition Naim in Melbourne? Hi Ben,If a pre + power is a possibility, can I suggest you get in touch with Hugh Dean at AKSA and buy a (fully made-up) NAKSA100. This is not yet listed as a complete amp (only the modules and the case are) but I feel sure than Hugh would be interested in putting all the parts together for you. I am positive this would be a much better-sounding amp than the Leema ... and you said that was better than the Creek Destiny. But you would then have to find a pre. Regards, Andy Thanks Andyfor the suggestion. Don't know anything about these amps sorry. Is there a link or review you can point me to? The system is going to be in the living / dining room of our house when it is renovated, so it has to a certain WAF. I'd imagine Earl would have an amp to suit if you wanted to go the tube route. The PMC FB1i are 90db efficient. Noted, thanks. Would his Tempest be a good option do you think? No need to rule the valves out. You just need the right ones. Perhaps try a valve/SS hybrid like the Unison Research Unico or a Rega. Both should be a little more relaxed than the Creek. Both also at CAV. Thanks. I previously discussed a hybrid with Earl. Not sure if he ended up making one. Good choice (if I don't say so myself). Are you getting the signature version?I'm running mine with an Arcam A38. You might be be able to hear this combination at Carlton since I notice they have the A18 on their website. I'd be keen to hear your assessment of a direct comparison with the Leema Pulse. I've not heard a Bryston/PMC combo but they are reputed to be a good match. There is a Bryston 4B ST power amp on fleabay at the moment. Not knowing what sources you want to run, but it might be an option to do as some others here do and run a power amp such as this without a pre by attenuating the signal with a suitably equipped DAC. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bryston-4B-ST-Power-Amplifier-/310326913567?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item4840ecea1f#ht_1297wt_922 Arcam oddly wasn't suggested when I last auditioned the PMCs although I was aware that they stocked the brand. They did mention that they had tried the PMCs with pretty much every amp configuration in the shop and that, for the money I was prepared to pay, the Pulse was the favourite. The Bryston potentially looks like a good deal. Do you know anything about the seller? Would it matter if I didn't use a Bryston pre-amp? Edited June 22, 2011 by bhall41
bhall41 Posted June 22, 2011 Author Posted June 22, 2011 From memory, there was an Acurus by Mondial amp on the FS forum. Might work well given that PMC had a partnership with Bryston.I was an owner of the FB1, FB1+, TB1, TB1+' DB1+ speakers and have tried the OB1's in my home. I have also used the PMC's with Musical Fidelity amps. Thanks, I will check that out. You were presumably happy with Musical Fidelity with the PMCs?
Tax Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) Thanks, I will check that out. You were presumably happy with Musical Fidelity with the PMCs? yes, they worked well with the MF A300. I ran the TB's with a Rotel in surround mode. I am still running a TB2+ centre channel. The Bryston would be a good move. If you are not hung up on hifi and brands, I would think that even a Professional amp would work well with the PMC gear given both PMC and Bryston have a pro audio background. Edited June 22, 2011 by Tax
bhall41 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 What about the Primare i30 with the PMCs as a matter of interest?
xtrachewy Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I like Rega Elicit (80W) but haven't heard it with FB1i. Somebody had a 4B-SST2 for sale (Teddyboy?) a while ago - the perfect power amp for FB1i/OB1 - the SST2 is more musical than the even-handed SST.
bhobba Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Hi Ben I have three amps I would recommend to you depending on your musical tastes: As Andy recommended the NAKSA is a good all round choice - the bass grip of a SS amp but a definitely non fatiguing beguiling non SS presentation that makes all music sound really good. Here is a review by our own John Darko: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/audio-reviews/amplifier-reviews/item/154-naksa-70-power-amplifier-module The other is a Leben CS300XS. Sublime mid-range if you are into vocals but plays even heavy rock surprisingly well. A guy came over to check it out in my system and was shocked how well it sounded even on the heavy rock nearly grunge music he bought over. He had been listening to a lot of valve amps, some of which cost a lot more than the Leben, and this handled his torture tracks the best - but he could detect a small amount of compression on some tracks when played loud - actually louder than I would care to play - which often happens with lower powered valve amps when they are pushed since they soft clip. Because of that they play louder than you would think, but do introduce a bit of compression. Its bass grip is also mediocre - its not like bass sounds bad or anything like that - its just that SS amps like the NAKSA are better. This is the amp if you like the chick and acoustic guitar thing. Check out a review: http://www.toneimports.com/leben/AVLCS300Review.pdf The third is my current favorite amp - an Audiosector Patek or Integrated amp. This amp is pure, clear, clean, and fast, very very fast - it has speed, demon speed, like no other amp. Little nuances you may hardly notice with another amp go off like firecrackers. It is simply like no other amp you have ever heard. If you are into getting every ounce of detail and nuance out of your music then this is the amp for you. It however has the typical 'steely' feel of a SS amp - it's not 'musical' - but you tend to forget that because of its very realistic presentation and detail. Here is a review by our own John Darko: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/audio-reviews/amplifier-reviews/item/214-audio-sector-gainclone-integrated-amplifier I have not heard the amps you mention and it is very hard to pass comment in that case. But I can assure you the Leben for example is often put in the category of one of the finest amps on the planet - it is mentioned a couple of times in the thread on the best integrated amp people have heard. The reviewer in the link gave it a rating of perfection. IMHO all three amps I mentioned are in that category and I have yet to hear anyone mention the Leema or Creek like that. That is not to say they aren't good - they almost certainly are - but people aren't saying things like perfection etc about them. The PMC's are 90db sensitive and will easily be driven by any of the amps I mentioned. Thanks Bill Edited June 23, 2011 by bhobba
wixy Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) The Yamaha A-S1000 could be worth considering at 90w per channel, especially at the bargain price of $1249 at Rio Sound and Vision (50% off). The amp is built like a tank (22kg), has a decent MM/MC phono stage and sounds good too. Highs are warmer than my previous Rotel amp yet the amp is more dynamic sounding. Edited June 23, 2011 by wixy
Guest Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 How about Naim Nait XS?I previously saw Earle, but am not sure whether the PMCs are sensitive enough for one his valve amps? Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Ben Hi Ben For that speaker one of Earles KT88 or KT120 PP based amps wouldn't have a problem running them on a wide variety of music and level sensitivity is just one aspect of a speaker it impedence load across its FR would be a better indicator of power required . CHeers
bhall41 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 Thanks everyone for the further replies. Very helpful albeit confusing for a relative newbie like me! Bill: unfortunately I can't get your links to work for some reason
bhobba Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Thanks everyone for the further replies. Very helpful albeit confusing for a relative newbie like me! Bill: unfortunately I can't get your links to work for some reason I don't know whats going on with the links - they work perfectly for me. Anyway for the Audiosector and NAKSA simply do a search for Johns site which is called Digital Audio Review and go to the amplifier review section. The review of the Leben can be found by a simple internet search. Its not that advanced really. Its easy to demonstrate when you listen. If there was some way you could make it up to the Brisbane/Gold Coast area I can easily show it to you. Thanks Bill Edited June 23, 2011 by bhobba
bhall41 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 I don't know whats going on with the links - they work perfectly for me. Anyway for the Audiosector and NAKSA simply do a search for Johns site which is called Digital Audio Review and go to the amplifier review section. The review of the Leben can be found by a simple internet search.Its not that advanced really. Its easy to demonstrate when you listen. If there was some way you could make it up to the Brisbane/Gold Coast area I can easily show it to you. Thanks Bill Thanks mate, got the links to work. My work PC didn't like them for some reason.
Juicester Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Have a listen to them in CAV on the end of a Plinius 9200 - I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.... You could get that close to the 3.5k mark...
Graywulf Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Hi Ben, Another Vacuum tube amp to consider is the Ming Da MC34ab... it's 75 watts per chanel in Ultra linear and 40 watt triode. They are a proven amp to power big speakers (one tester powered the Si Concert grandes with one). They tube roll fantasticaly and there are a few used here that have been 'hot rodded' to excellent effect it seems.
nzdans Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 What about the Primare i30 with the PMCs as a matter of interest? I took my i30 into CAV and trialled the FB1is, Kantu 6s and some others; brought some FB1is home for a night and thoroughly enjoyed the sound. I didn't hear the PMCs powered by anything else unfortunately (for you). Well worth popping this on the audition list..
georgehifi Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 I have been looking for a new pair of speakers on and off for at least 12 months. I have now decided I will purchase a pair of the PMC FB1i s, which I absolutely love - really engaging speakers, with excellent mid range and powerful bass response.Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Ben We had these at the Ason monthly meeting a couple of months ago, and I was quite supprised how good they did sound when driven by Parrasound JC-1 Monoblocks. They are Class A/B 400w. But switched (on the back) to the lower power power Pure Class A mode 25w Class A and then they run hot!!! 30kg each!!!!! Still sounds great with the A/B mode you could hear the unlimited power, it's just that the Class A mode was more earthy and wholesome and 3 dimentional. http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/774 And these amps are sooooo cheap in the US ( I've seen them go for as little as $3000us a pair on ebay) and I found you can easily change the input transformers primary windings to 240v from 110v if you get a US pair. Cheers George
bhall41 Posted June 24, 2011 Author Posted June 24, 2011 I took my i30 into CAV and trialled the FB1is, Kantu 6s and some others; brought some FB1is home for a night and thoroughly enjoyed the sound. I didn't hear the PMCs powered by anything else unfortunately (for you). Well worth popping this on the audition list.. Thanks for the feedback, I will bear the i30s in mind. We had these at the Ason monthly meeting a couple of months ago, and I was quite supprised how good they did sound when driven by Parrasound JC-1 Monoblocks. They are Class A/B 400w. But switched (on the back) to the lower power power Pure Class A mode 25w Class A and then they run hot!!! 30kg each!!!!! Still sounds great with the A/B mode you could hear the unlimited power, it's just that the Class A mode was more earthy and wholesome and 3 dimentional. http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/774And these amps are sooooo cheap in the US ( I've seen them go for as little as $3000us a pair on ebay) and I found you can easily change the input transformers primary windings to 240v from 110v if you get a US pair. Cheers George Thanks George, interesting option. Stupid question I realise but I don't have to purchase two of these units, as monoblocks?
bhall41 Posted June 24, 2011 Author Posted June 24, 2011 Have a listen to them in CAV on the end of a Plinius 9200 - I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.... You could get that close to the 3.5k mark... Yet another interesting option, thanks! I will try to check them out next time I visit CAV.
GryphonGuy Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 When you buy an active version of a PMC speaker, the amplifier within the speaker is a custom-made Bryston
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