Roon Discussion Thread

[Keith_W]

Sorry, but Roon is the biggest pile of garbage I have ever seen in software. It belongs to the "we know best, we will organize your music for you and give you no choice and no say in how we decide to do it" camp.

Suppose you have all 60 CD's of the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt Bach Cantata set. I have ripped all my CD's and organized them into directories and subdirectories on my HDD. If I want to listen to a particular CD, on ANY OTHER SOFTWARE, I just navigate there by folder and click on the CD.

Not with Roon. Type "Bach Cantata" and you get this:

Good luck selecting the correct work that you want.

Oh yeah, suppose you have a large Bach collection, like I do. Want to listen to some Bach?

Welcome to your 2600 pages of tracks. That's 2600 PAGES, and not 2600 TRACKS. Oh yes, this is ONLY for "BACH Johann Sebastian". There are other composers named "BACH Johann S" and "Bach JS" which Roon thinks are other composers. NO OPTION to over-ride Roon and merge them.

Go to composer view, and there are a whole bunch of non-composers which Roon thinks are composers. Once again, NO OPTION to delete these "composers" and remove them to stop cluttering up your screen.

Go to album view, and you can't organize albums by composers!

Completely unusable. The developers are catering to the short attention span crowd who only listen to songs and tracks. If you have a carefully curated collection, as I do - you don't want Roon. The first job of music player software is to be able to find your bloody music and be able to organize it how you want it and Roon can't even do that. Instead, the software thinks it knows best and gives you no option to over-ride its arbitrary decisions.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Keith_W

[New Sensations]

SteveC > I'll read up on this, it sounds interesting (been reading album/vinyl covers for years, including and especially jazz)... but, I'm suspecting it's not free?[/quote

I feel Roon advertising has not hit Australia, sorry to say but Stereo Net members seem clueless about it.

Then it's not advertising that's required as much education. Australia might be in butt fluck nowhere but we have the Internet. Plenty of Roon info out there on the www. Roon's own support forums are a great place to start.

[New Sensations]

Sorry, but Roon is the biggest pile of garbage I have ever seen in software. It belongs to the "we know best, we will organize your music for you and give you no choice and no say in how we decide to do it" camp.

Suppose you have all 60 CD's of the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt Bach Cantata set. I have ripped all my CD's and organized them into directories and subdirectories on my HDD. If I want to listen to a particular CD, on ANY OTHER SOFTWARE, I just navigate there by folder and click on the CD.

Not with Roon. Type "Bach Cantata" and you get this:

roon2.jpg

Good luck selecting the correct work that you want.

Oh yeah, suppose you have a large Bach collection, like I do. Want to listen to some Bach?

roon1.jpg

Welcome to your 2600 pages of tracks. That's 2600 PAGES, and not 2600 TRACKS. Oh yes, this is ONLY for "BACH Johann Sebastian". There are other composers named "BACH Johann S" and "Bach JS" which Roon thinks are other composers. NO OPTION to over-ride Roon and merge them.

Go to composer view, and there are a whole bunch of non-composers which Roon thinks are composers. Once again, NO OPTION to delete these "composers" and remove them to stop cluttering up your screen.

Go to album view, and you can't organize albums by composers!

Completely unusable. The developers are catering to the short attention span crowd who only listen to songs and tracks. If you have a carefully curated collection, as I do - you don't want Roon. The first job of music player software is to be able to find your bloody music and be able to organize it how you want it and Roon can't even do that. Instead, the software thinks it knows best and gives you no option to over-ride its arbitrary decisions.

I believe there ARE options to override Roon's meta data choices.

Did you know you can tell Roon to use the files' meta data over its own choices? Look for 'prefer file'.

Edited April 19, 2016 by J_o_h_n

[New Sensations]

Very straightforward to set up.

Brilliant for rediscovering your own library and even better when paired with Tidal

That's the real zinger, isn't it? That one's own local library seamlessly joins that of the cloud.

[New Sensations]

Can you control it with an IR remote control?

Yes. I control basic playback - pause/play/next/previous - on my Mac Mini running Roon Core with the silver Apple wand.

[Guest thathifiguy]

I started a trial yesterday, but was left pretty disappointed to find that my 4th gen iPad (retina not Air) isn't a supported model for the controller app.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Satanica]

Yes. I control basic playback - pause/play/next/previous - on my Mac Mini running Roon Core with the silver Apple wand.

I see, can you navigate around artists and albums and tracks and select what you want to play?

[Jumbuck]

I have been using it for 10 months now (so almost from day 1) and I find it to be a brilliant (although not perfect) bit of software. Many of those you say it is crap either don't know how to use it, have their files set up in a way not recognised by Roon, or are the type of user that no software will ever make them 100% happy as they prefer to have absolute control over everything. Plus it is still evolving at a rapid rate with the developers more than happy to take suggestions from users as well as offer a level of support that I can't remember getting from any other software company.

Now that Roon can be controlled by Android/IOS remote and Roon Bridge for playback on almost any device (PC/Mac/Linux/IOS/Android) it has made the software much more mainstream. It isn't cheap and will never please everyone but most who give it a fair go will find it an worthwhile investment in both their time and money.

[paul30d]

Sorry, but Roon is the biggest pile of garbage I have ever seen in software. It belongs to the "we know best, we will organize your music for you and give you no choice and no say in how we decide to do it" camp.

Suppose you have all 60 CD's of the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt Bach Cantata set. I have ripped all my CD's and organized them into directories and subdirectories on my HDD. If I want to listen to a particular CD, on ANY OTHER SOFTWARE, I just navigate there by folder and click on the CD.

Not with Roon. Type "Bach Cantata" and you get this:

roon2.jpg

Good luck selecting the correct work that you want.

Oh yeah, suppose you have a large Bach collection, like I do. Want to listen to some Bach?

roon1.jpg

Welcome to your 2600 pages of tracks. That's 2600 PAGES, and not 2600 TRACKS. Oh yes, this is ONLY for "BACH Johann Sebastian". There are other composers named "BACH Johann S" and "Bach JS" which Roon thinks are other composers. NO OPTION to over-ride Roon and merge them.

Go to composer view, and there are a whole bunch of non-composers which Roon thinks are composers. Once again, NO OPTION to delete these "composers" and remove them to stop cluttering up your screen.

Go to album view, and you can't organize albums by composers!

Completely unusable. The developers are catering to the short attention span crowd who only listen to songs and tracks. If you have a carefully curated collection, as I do - you don't want Roon. The first job of music player software is to be able to find your bloody music and be able to organize it how you want it and Roon can't even do that. Instead, the software thinks it knows best and gives you no option to over-ride its arbitrary decisions.

 

 

It's not for everybody, and it is still a work in progress. If you are organised, know exactly what you want to play, and where things are located, then navigating into your folder structure might still be the best way... particularly for 60CD classical box sets. I don't know any music database/player that really does well with classical.

 

For me, I would not use anything else other than Roon now. I love it. My tastes in music are less focussed, and Roon really helps with getting the best out of my music library. I bought into it at v1.0 and have experienced v1.1 and v1.2. Each new version is really a leap ahead, so I am very comfortable with where they are heading. v1.2 was focussed more on connectivity. From the forum, I believe v1.3 will focus on metadata, which might solve some of your issues with it.

[Keith_W]

I believe there ARE options to override Roon's meta data choices.

Did you know you can tell Roon to use the files' meta data over its own choices? Look for 'prefer file'.

Yes, you can do that. But that only tells Roon to prefer the metadata on your file. There is still no way to make Roon recognize that the 30 tracks on one CD are not separate "songs", but actually one very long work which is to be played sequentially from start to finish. It just happens to be divided into 30 tracks.

My hobby is listening to music. And not editing thousands of files to make sure the metadata is consistent. I rip a CD, put all the contents in a newly created folder. One folder per CD. That's it. When I want to listen, I select the folder and add it to the playlist. It is the same way we organize our CD or LP collections! Even foobar, which is FREE and doesn't cost half a thousand dollars (like Roon does) ... can do it.

No piece of software has made me so angry in such a long time. Their whole way of thinking is like Apple. They remove features to make it "easy to use" but ends up frustrating people who want to do something else and find they have no way to do it.

[Jumbuck]

Their whole way of thinking is like Apple.

Sorry but I find that statement to a total misrepresentation of what the Roon developers are all about. It doesn't do what you want (fair enough) so just keep looking.

[New Sensations]

Yes, you can do that. But that only tells Roon to prefer the metadata on your file. There is still no way to make Roon recognize that the 30 tracks on one CD are not separate "songs", but actually one very long work which is to be played sequentially from start to finish. It just happens to be divided into 30 tracks.

My hobby is listening to music. And not editing thousands of files to make sure the metadata is consistent. I rip a CD, put all the contents in a newly created folder. One folder per CD. That's it. When I want to listen, I select the folder and add it to the playlist. It is the same way we organize our CD or LP collections! Even foobar, which is FREE and doesn't cost half a thousand dollars (like Roon does) ... can do it.

No piece of software has made me so angry in such a long time. Their whole way of thinking is like Apple. They remove features to make it "easy to use" but ends up frustrating people who want to do something else and find they have no way to do it.

Roon can't work miracles. I ensure all my metadata is perfect! Although I understand it's a more involved process for classical?

I can see how you find Roon unfit for your needs but that doesn't mean it's unsuitable for others. Many, many people seriously dig it.

Folder playback? Maybe upnp or Squeezebox type methods are more appropriate to your needs.

[Keith_W]

Sorry but I find that statement to a total misrepresentation of what the Roon developers are all about. It doesn't do what you want (fair enough) so just keep looking.

Yup. I recommend Jriver. It actually does what I want, and lets me organize music the way I like it. The only serious downside for me is that it does not support HQPlayer, whereas Roon does.

[New Sensations]

Yup. I recommend Jriver. It actually does what I want, and lets me organize music the way I like it. The only serious downside for me is that it does not support HQPlayer, whereas Roon does.

Tell me something, Keith. Do the tracks that comprise a classical work have an 'album' tag? If that reads the same for each track, won't Roon see it as one work?

[SteveC]

Put two classical music lovers in a room and get them to agree on meta data. This is the problem. The web forums are full of posts of people doing their own thing in this space so yes you may need a more custom solution.

 

I think Roon will get close for most people. 

 

The 60 Bach CD's should be tagged CD1,2,3...60 and all with the same album name as John has mentioned then they should come up under one album.

 

I have Roon set up to do it's own meta data. Occassionally I have to go and fix mine to match or merge albums for whatever reason but it is generally on the mark.

[Keith_W]

Roon can't work miracles. I ensure all my metadata is perfect! Although I understand it's a more involved process for classical?

I can see how you find Roon unfit for your needs but that doesn't mean it's unsuitable for others. Many, many people seriously dig it.

Folder playback? Maybe upnp or Squeezebox type methods are more appropriate to your needs.

It doesn't have to work miracles. All it needs to do is do this:

... that is a screenshot of one of my folders. On the left you can see how the folders are organized.

It is so simple, ALL THEY NEED TO DO is have an option that shows you the file structure, and Roon would work for me. Much easier to organize music by dropping them into folders rather than editing metadata. There are thousands of tracks in my collection, all with very long names like the ones you see in my folder. Editing metadata is simply not feasible.

This is unfortunately one fatal flaw that renders it completely unusable for me, and many others. If you have many works by a single artist or composer, you will find it almost impossible to look for your music.

The interface is also much prettier than any of its competition ... although, once again it betrays its Apple-like philosophy of not letting you configure the display to how you want it. They know what's best and if you don't like the decisions they have made on your behalf ... well stuff you.

Roon does have its attractions. The major one for me is its integration with HQPlayer*.

(* off topic - HQPlayer also works with Muso, and Muso was designed from the ground up to work with Classical. UNFORTUNATELY it is browser based and it does not work very well with the Edge browser in Windows 10).

[SteveC]

I don't see that happening for you Keith. The whole system is based on meta data and they rely on your database and the Rovi database using the same tag structure.

 

Someone technical could probably use a script to tag all of your music "automagically" based on the file name and structure. It would not need to be fully manual. But it doesn't look like you want to go there.

[Keith_W]

Put two classical music lovers in a room and get them to agree on meta data. This is the problem.

All these are exactly the same work:

- Beethoven "Frühlings-Sonate"

- Beethoven "Spring Sonata"

- Beethoven "Sonate du Printemps"

... and so are these:

- Bach Clavierübung

- Bach Clavier-übung

- Bach Clavier übung

- Bach Klavierübung

- Bach Klavierubung

- Bach Exercice du Clavecin

... I think you can begin to see the problem. I know that it is the same work. A computer doesn't. Let it automate the process and give you no way to over-ride it (short of editing metadata for thousands of files) and you end up with a mess. Like Roon.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Keith_W

[paul30d]

Another thing I like about Roon is that it is "family friendly". It's doing a good job of playing music in different rooms and is usable by different people. If it was just me, I could live with navigating to a folder structure like what has been shown. But my wife is just not going to use it, if the system was like that. JRiver could also do this. I have used JRiver before and still have a licence for it, so I am not really a "fanboy" of anything in particular. I also have audirvana and amarra. I just like Roon better.

[Keith_W]

I don't see that happening for you Keith. The whole system is based on meta data and they rely on your database and the Rovi database using the same tag structure. to be fully manual. But it doesn't look like you want to go there.

Oh, why not? Foobar allows you to browse by directory. So does jriver. Even my Astell&Kern DAP allows me to browse by directory. Come to think of it, SO DOES EVERY WINDOWS PROGRAM including Microsoft Word, Excel, and so on.

Try to imagine a version of Microsoft Word that does not allow you to look for your file through directories. Instead, it forces you to tag your documents with metadata. It then decides how to organize your files for you without any way for you to over-ride it.

One word for it: it's crippled. If you can't find your files, it is useless. If a search results in thousands of entries, it is useless. Might work for you if your collection numbers in the hundreds, and not in the thousands (a quick file count of my music folder shows I have 18,183 files in 836 folders).

[SteveC]

Yes I can see the problem from your point of view and why you would want to avoid it. It looks scary!

 

"But" if it was my library I would see a massive tagging task ahead of me. Not much fun and nothing to do with listening to music I agree.

 

The way you have stored your music (using file name/location as your primary key) can never be read as a relational database without the tags. All you are doing with JRiver and Foobar is using them as a glorified file manager. I could do the same in windows by right clicking a file and hitting play with VLC and many do exactly that probably for the same reasons that you have.

 

It is what it is at the moment. You could always go on to the Roon forum and request the "file explorer" feature. They are pretty good with their responses and honest about whether it is likely to happen.

[Jumbuck]

You could always go on to the Roon forum and request the "file explorer" feature. They are pretty good with their responses and honest about whether it is likely to happen.

 

I think this has been asked for and the developers have said no. Can't remember their reasons but I will see if I can find them. I would like a quick way to go from Roon into the files as it would make editing a little bit easier/quicker.

[Satanica]

The interface is also much prettier than any of its competition...

Really? Have you seen JRiver in Theater View and/or KODI?

Edited April 20, 2016 by Satanica

[New Sensations]

It doesn't have to work miracles. All it needs to do is do this:

roon3.jpg

... that is a screenshot of one of my folders. On the left you can see how the folders are organized.

It is so simple, ALL THEY NEED TO DO is have an option that shows you the file structure, and Roon would work for me. Much easier to organize music by dropping them into folders rather than editing metadata. There are thousands of tracks in my collection, all with very long names like the ones you see in my folder. Editing metadata is simply not feasible.

This is unfortunately one fatal flaw that renders it completely unusable for me, and many others. If you have many works by a single artist or composer, you will find it almost impossible to look for your music.

The interface is also much prettier than any of its competition ... although, once again it betrays its Apple-like philosophy of not letting you configure the display to how you want it. They know what's best and if you don't like the decisions they have made on your behalf ... well stuff you.

Roon does have its attractions. The major one for me is its integration with HQPlayer*.

(* off topic - HQPlayer also works with Muso, and Muso was designed from the ground up to work with Classical. UNFORTUNATELY it is browser based and it does not work very well with the Edge browser in Windows 10).

Ah, so you need file/folder structure reading? Because meta data editing is too painful?

You're possibly barking up the wrong tree with Roon (as it currently stands).

I'm talking to one of the Roon guys this arvo so I'll ask about classical meta data handling.

Edited April 20, 2016 by J_o_h_n

[rossb]

I was about to post on this thread that I absolutely F----ING HATE Roon, and give the reasons, but then I see that Keith W has beaten me to it. He gives exactly the same reasons why I find it irritating beyond belief.

 

The absence of folder browsing is the most obvious one. For some of us, this is how we organise our music and it is the easiest way of finding something, particularly for classical. A number of people have asked for this on the Roon forum. They have been met each time with a blanket denial that anyone would even want this, let alone agree to implement it. It has come up quite a few times and the response is always the same (with an implicit rolling of eyes). You don't need it. Our way is better. Why would anyone even want such a stupid thing. Try it our way. This is the Apple approach to the world - we know better, there is only one way to do it, and it is our way. And it is absolutely f---ing infuriating.

 

The second is the re-categorisation of music you have so carefully organised. I haven't been this annoyed since itunes helpfully re-tagged  Bach's Goldberg Variations for me as "contemporary christian".

 

The third is the endless irritating amount of unhelpful information you have to wade through just to find the piece of music you want to play. I know what classical music is. I know who Mozart is. I don't need a lightweight two paragraph introduction to Jazz when I am trying to find my Keith Jarrett album.

 

Fourth, it is the actual inability to find what you are looking for. Everything is re-organised and re-classified. Every time I try to find a piece of music - and I mean every f-----ing time - it either takes five different attempts using different filters or search criteria to find it, or I just cannot find it at all, even though I know it is there.

 

Finally, when you eventually locate what you are looking for, it will appear in a format which is completely useless. Search for mozart piano concertos and you get each track in alphabetical order - the allegros followed by the andantes and so on.

 

It is the worst and most irritating software I have ever used. It is worse than itunes, and that it saying something (because I f---ing hate itunes also).

 

It was a pleasure to go back to JRiver after wasting my time trying to work with this idiotic software. JRIver may be old fashioned, but it works, and works virtually flawlessly. I can find any piece of music within seconds, it is organised  the way I like it, there is plenty of flexibility and it sounds good.