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Do I need an Oppo universal player?


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Evening everyone,

 

I'm just getting into 2 channel audio with a small SACD and FLAC collection. I don't have any analog sources.

 

I have 3 universal players that play SACDs and FLACs, the most capable of the 3 being the Sony X800 which bitstreams DSD to my trusty but older Yammy V3800 which accepts the DSD signal. The other 2 players are Yamaha BDS677 and Pioneer BDP150. Of course, they can output PCM to the Yammy. The Yammy has from what I read pretty crappy DACs PCM1791A.

 

Question I have is if I'm purely playing digital sources and music, would I benefit from a better Oppo player? Is it only when I utilise the Oppo's DAC and get it to send the PCM signal that I'll benefit? Otherwise if I bitstream DSD....it would be no different compared to my existing players?

 

If I got an Oppo, I  think I'd only either the coaxial, optical or USB DAC digital output...whereas the X800 has coaxial digital outputs. Won't be using the RCA multichannel or 2 ch outs.

 

I am considering getting a 2 ch integrated amp too.

 

thx in advance for helping this newbie.

Edited by noisuf
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Try listening to your Yamaha BDS677 for SACD playback.

According to the User Manual it appears to support DSD via it's stereo analog outs.

 

This method may potentially sound superior as it appears that your player internally converts DSD to PCM first if outputting via HDMI. 

You can confirm this by seeing what your AVR's display shows as the incoming signal.

 

Hook up Yamaha at analog level from player to AVR and at HDMI level.

Also hook up Sony at HDMI level.

You can then switch between the AVR'S HDMI and analog inputs and choose which way of playing SACD's sounds best to you.

 

1. Yamaha at analog level.......(my guess as best) (try to use half decent I/C's) 

2. Yamaha via HDMI 

3. Sony via HDMI

 

Looks like your Pioneer can't do SACD.

 

Unless you do plan on utilising the OPPO's DAC for everything (recommended) or adding an external one (also recommended) then there doesn't seem to be any point in getting an OPPO at this stage.

 

Just my 2c

 

Edited by JohnL
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3 minutes ago, JohnL said:

Try listening to your Yamaha BDS677 for SACD playback.

According to the User Manual it appears to support DSD via it's stereo analog outs.

 

This method may potentially sound superior as it appears that your player will internally convert DSD to PCM prior to outputting via HDMI. 

You can confirm this by seeing what your AVR's display shows as the incoming signal.

 

Hook up at analog level from player to AVR.

You can then switch between the AVR'S HDMI and analog inputs and choose which way sounds best to you.

 

1. Yamaha at analog level

2. Yamaha via HDMI 

3. Sony via HDMI

 

Looks like the Pioneer can't do SACD.

 

If you do not plan on utilising the OPPO's DAC then there doesn't seem to any point in getting one.

Just my 2c

 

Thx heaps for your reply.

 

Will definitely, try out the stereo analog outs from the Yamaha. When I try bitstream from the Yamaha...it only shows up as PCM on the AVR. It's known to force conversion to PCM.

 

The Pana does play SACD too and this and the Sony does come up as DSD on the AVR through HDMI.

 

I wonder if the Oppo DAC is a major step up compared to the Yamaha BDS677 to be discernable?

 

If i get the integrated amp, should I connect the source via digital (coax, USB, optical) to the amp or the analog RCAs? I assume the digital as the integrated AMP would have a stronger DAC?

 

 

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Depending on your budget a good integrated amp should beat your AVR.

Connect all your sources to it at analog level unless you want to use it's DAC (if it has one)

 

BTW..........what Pana?

 

 

Edited by JohnL
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43 minutes ago, JohnL said:

Depending on your budget a good integrated amp should beat your AVR.

Connect all your sources to it at analog level unless you want to use it's DAC (if it has one)

 

BTW..........what Pana?

 

 

Thanks John. Oops, I meant the Pioneer...the BDP150 can play SACD and bitstream.

 

I'm thinking the 32bit DAC in the S677 os better than the 24bit DAC in the Yammy V3800 AVR. Can't wait to try tomorrow.... been using only digital inputs and relying on the AVR for DAC all these years.

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Well in that case why not give the Pioneer a shot at analog level too.

At least you got some stuff to do now whilst we are in lockdown!!!!

 

As mentioned earlier........try to use half decent I/C's.......not those horrid thin black leads with the red and white RCA ends that came with your players.

 

Also make sure all player and AVR settings are correctly optimised.

I suspect your Yammy AVR will have a setting like "Analog Direct"

 

Player settings like "DRC" should be OFF......... (and confirm video resolution of all players is set at 720p or higher which ensures proper high res audio via HDMI)

 

You want as pure a signal path as possible to maximise stereo SQ.

 

Good Luck

Edited by JohnL
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8 hours ago, JohnL said:

Depending on your budget a good integrated amp should beat your AVR.

Connect all your sources to it at analog level unless you want to use it's DAC (if it has one)

 

BTW..........what Pana?

 

 

BDP-150, in the OP first post

 

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11 hours ago, noisuf said:

I am considering getting a 2 ch integrated amp too.

If do get the denon 2500 integrated, do look at the ne players they have. Tasty 

 

as are lovely marantz CD/sacd players 

 

it’s never the $2 dac, it’s the implementation, power supplies, analog stages, Pre stages that follow ...

 

ps I own a OPPO 205 use it for music via analog to 2ch pre. Also have it hooked upto separate dac and hdmi to av processor ... it’s very versatile source that way

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25 minutes ago, betty boop said:

If do get the denon 2500 integrated, do look at the ne players they have. Tasty 

 

as are lovely marantz CD/sacd players 

 

it’s never the $2 dac, it’s the implementation, power supplies, analog stages, Pre stages that follow ...

 

ps I own a OPPO 205 use it for music via analog to 2ch pre. Also have it hooked upto separate dac and hdmi to av processor ... it’s very versatile source that way

I'm on the lookout for a denon 2500ne. I've seen them for as low as $2k used. But I don't want to put it up on the WTB in case I offend. ?

 

I'm also looking at the Oppo 205 too. And a better set of floorstanders.

 

Then my new setup will be the following, interested in your thoughts:

Oppo 205 analog to 2500ne to new floor standers

Move my existing floor standers to surround back driven by the v3800 yammy.

 

Budget $6K for all.....joked around with missus last night. My sister in law just lost job yesterday so job security and money touchy topic.

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Just now, noisuf said:

I'm on the lookout for a denon 2500ne. I've seen them for as low as $2k used. But I don't want to put it up on the WTB in case I offend. ?

 

I'm also looking at the Oppo 205 too. And a better set of floorstanders.

 

Then my new setup will be the following, interested in your thoughts:

Oppo 205 analog to 2500ne to new floor standers

Move my existing floor standers to surround back driven by the v3800 yammy.

 

Budget $6K for all.....joked around with missus last night. My sister in law just lost job yesterday so job security and money touchy topic.

dont know given the silly prices 205 go for ... and not sure many big denons 2nd hand... tend to not come up so often, though od now nad then as with more reasonably priced 205. so never know :) 

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10 hours ago, JohnL said:

Depending on your budget a good integrated amp should beat your AVR.

I agree. The AVR is more the limitation than the player for stereo music.

 

@noisuf if you want to seriously get into stereo music, suggest getting a good integrated amp first, from Classifieds,  before looking for the Oppo.  I suspect integrated + existing player will beat the existing AVR + Oppo.  

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28 minutes ago, betty boop said:

dont know given the silly prices 205 go for ... and not sure many big denons 2nd hand... tend to not come up so often, though od now nad then as with more reasonably priced 205. so never know :) 

 

Patience is not my strong point but will keep a lookout. ?

 

Just now, Snoopy8 said:

I agree. The AVR is more the limitation than the player for stereo music.

 

@noisuf if you want to seriously get into stereo music, suggest getting a good integrated amp first, from Classifieds,  before looking for the Oppo.  I suspect integrated + existing player will beat the existing AVR + Oppo.  

 

Yeah, I'll keep an eye out for a denon 2500ne..... Would be good to listen though compared to others like Marantz P14s. I need to be patient. ?

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9 hours ago, JohnL said:

As mentioned earlier........try to use half decent I/C's.......not those horrid thin black leads with the red and white RCA ends that came with your players.

Found my old monster RCA cables from years ago. Lol

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35 minutes ago, noisuf said:

Yeah, I'll keep an eye out for a denon 2500ne..... Would be good to listen though compared to others like Marantz P14s. I need to be patient. ?

somewhere like carlton audio visual local to you would have both to check out...so well worth doing once we are released ! :D 

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Wowsers, did a quick test, just hooked up analog from the Yammy BDS677 analog to the V3800 played the norah jones SACD.....and compared that with HDMI X800 to V3800.

 

The analog from S677 was more FULLER!!!???

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42 minutes ago, noisuf said:

Wowsers, did a quick test, just hooked up analog from the Yammy BDS677 analog to the V3800 played the norah jones SACD.....and compared that with HDMI X800 to V3800.

 

The analog from S677 was more FULLER!!!???

Not at all surprised. Many AVRs are not good for stereo music despite them being advertised as using DAC 32 bit chips, DSD etc... 

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3 hours ago, JohnL said:

Try the Pio.

All ready to go, waiting for work to finish. But updated f/w for the pioneer, firmware up to date on other 2. ?

 

5 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

I agree. The AVR is more the limitation than the player for stereo music.

 

@noisuf if you want to seriously get into stereo music, suggest getting a good integrated amp first, from Classifieds,  before looking for the Oppo.  I suspect integrated + existing player will beat the existing AVR + Oppo.  

 

You've got me thinking @Snoopy8, if I do get an integrated amp, there isn't much of a benefit getting an oppo because I'll be sending digital through coax/usb/optical to the integrated amp...... which means I won't be taking advantage of the oppos DACs anyway (assuming the integrated amp DAC and architecture is better)?

 

So I can basically use say the Yammy S677 for my 2 ch source and not worry about an Oppo 205?

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1 hour ago, noisuf said:

All ready to go, waiting for work to finish. But updated f/w for the pioneer, firmware up to date on other 2. ?

 

 

You've got me thinking @Snoopy8, if I do get an integrated amp, there isn't much of a benefit getting an oppo because I'll be sending digital through coax/usb/optical to the integrated amp...... which means I won't be taking advantage of the oppos DACs anyway (assuming the integrated amp DAC and architecture is better)?

 

So I can basically use say the Yammy S677 for my 2 ch source and not worry about an Oppo 205?

It is not usual for an integrated amp to have a DAC.

They have only been in the market recently and there is no particular reason that you should only target one of them.

 

I think you are assuming that as your AVR had Digital inputs then an integrated stereo amp must too............

NOT the case.

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1 hour ago, noisuf said:

You've got me thinking @Snoopy8, if I do get an integrated amp, there isn't much of a benefit getting an oppo because I'll be sending digital through coax/usb/optical to the integrated amp...... which means I won't be taking advantage of the oppos DACs anyway (assuming the integrated amp DAC and architecture is better)?

 

So I can basically use say the Yammy S677 for my 2 ch source and not worry about an Oppo 205?

An integrated with DAC is less common, not many in Classifieds. If you can get good one, eg. Vitus R100, it will beat your player. But at low end eg. NAD D3020, difficult to say.

 

A decent Integrated will likely have better analog circuitry, output stages than an AVR. So, getting an Integrated with your existing player will improve things.  Suggest this as your first step.

 

Next step, you may want to consider feeding your player to an external DAC. it will be cheaper than the Oppo 205. 

 

Yes, Oppo 205 is very good. But I can't help but feel that it is an over priced option for you?

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Ok, did some testing with the three setups: a) analog Yammy S677 b) analog Pioneer BDP150, c) HDMI Sony X800.

 

Strangely, the analog Pioneer BDP150 was very similar to the HDMI Sony X800. But I preferred the analog Yamaha s677 more.....I could hear more instruments, the vocals sounded more life like in front of me, it was bassy, and slightly louder. As mentioned earlier, it was fuller, wider. Maybe it's made up in my mind?

 

3 hours ago, JohnL said:

It is not usual for an integrated amp to have a DAC.

They have only been in the market recently and there is no particular reason that you should only target one of them.

 

I think you are assuming that as your AVR had Digital inputs then an integrated stereo amp must too............

NOT the case.

Oops, here I had to read again and learn. I thought integrated meant with a DAC but it means pre and post integrated. Looking at the Denon PMA2500NE

 

1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

An integrated with DAC is less common, not many in Classifieds. If you can get good one, eg. Vitus R100, it will beat your player. But at low end eg. NAD D3020, difficult to say.

 

A decent Integrated will likely have better analog circuitry, output stages than an AVR. So, getting an Integrated with your existing player will improve things.  Suggest this as your first step.

 

Next step, you may want to consider feeding your player to an external DAC. it will be cheaper than the Oppo 205. 

 

Yes, Oppo 205 is very good. But I can't help but feel that it is an over priced option for you?

Yep, the Denon PMA2500NE will definitely blow my old AVR away. ?

 

Will start researching on good external DACs... Do you have some good bang for buck suggestions?

 

 

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52 minutes ago, noisuf said:

Oops, here I had to read again and learn. I thought integrated meant with a DAC but it means pre and post integrated. Looking at the Denon PMA2500NE

the denon most definitely does have a dac on board.  will take coax and optical and usb and dac on board wont be rubbish...

 

https://www.denon.com/en-au/shop/amplifier/pma2500ne

 

and yes as an integrated it has both pre and power amp in the same chasis ... hence integrated :) 

 

54 minutes ago, noisuf said:

Will start researching on good external DACs... Do you have some good bang for buck suggestions?

I'd hold the horses :D can end up analysis paralysis and especially if its all just analysis without actually listening to anything,

 

id go demo, check out the denon, speaker to suit THEN consider what source.... otherwise getting a bit carried away with things with source and what not without amp or speakers squared away...

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