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Speaker Position :|


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hi @Pasic007 it looks like it could be a tricky room to deal with; hopefully my reply bumps your thread to the attention of some others on SNA who have dealt with a similar room and got the sound sorted out ok.  

 

The only obvious thing i can suggest is to move the right-hand speaker further away from the wall.  It looks like the room is effectively 3500 to 4000mm wide (4000 at the back but with some rebates at the left front) so following Dynaudio's 'rule of fifths' try having the right (and left) speakers positioned so that the centre of each speaker is around 700-800mm from the side walls.

 

Try that as a starting point, and tweak from there...trust your ears...or your rabbits' ears ?

 

Cheers

2B

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Ay yay ay.  To toe-in or not to toe-in.  Position is key, but also such heavy toe-in like that will impact your sound, particularly the sound stage.  Don't forget to tweek that as you move them - you could have the perfect position but too much toe-in.

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15 hours ago, Kaynin said:

Ay yay ay.  To toe-in or not to toe-in.  Position is key, but also such heavy toe-in like that will impact your sound, particularly the sound stage.  Don't forget to tweek that as you move them - you could have the perfect position but too much toe-in.

you are 100% correct, i got more sound stage as i dialed the toe-in down.

 

I miss read the manual as it mentioned having speakers positioned at 45deg in relational to person and it was talking about toe in so yeah i assumed speakers were meant to toe in to 45deg as well haha. 

 

Good pick up, thanks.


Dean 

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I love the measuring device. 
 

In terms of new speakers, I don’t believe in undersizing for a room. You can always dial them down. Get something that has the tonal response that you enjoy (bright / sedate / soft / forward it’s all up to you) and spend as much as you can afford. Speakers make more difference than anything else in your setup.

 

Don’t be afraid to pair the new speakers with a sub to deal with low frequencies so your mains can deliver without distortion (particularly if you drive them hard on occasion).

 

You are right, your room is a funny shape. Have you considered doing a quick bit of room analysis using REW or Fuzzmeasure first? See what you’re dealing with and use that to drive decisions on next steps?

 

I am embarking on a bunch of acoustic room treatment next. I expect some money spent there is far more beneficial than the minor tweaks many on here claim reveal “veils” and other superlatives.

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Would be better the opposite end of room on the 4m window width end to achieve the recommended equilateral stereo listening triangle, speakers 0.7-1m away from side walls and out, 3m to seat. Treat windows with thick curtains.

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4 hours ago, Al.M said:

Would be better the opposite end of room on the 4m window width end to achieve the recommended equilateral stereo listening triangle, speakers 0.7-1m away from side walls and out, 3m to seat. Treat windows with thick curtains.

Yes agreed, less bass problem.  

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My gf said its bad Feng Shui to have my back to the front entrance door.?‍♂️ Maybe i need a new GF lol.

Im sure she will comment that house negative energy flow will negate my sound waves...

 

Ill give this a go. Ill need to get some longer speaker cables. Off to the classifieds i go.  

 

I do have heavy curtains, but i was looking at getting some bamboo over the windows instead.  

To add to the room complexity that feature wall has a lot of texture, i can just imagine what that does to the sound. 

 

15 hours ago, recur said:

REW or Fuzzmeasure

Ill look into that today, its new to me. :)

Screenshot_20200825-063158_Facebook.jpg

Edited by Pasic007
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  • 2 weeks later...

Textured wall should be good diffuser for your sound in a good way.  

Negative fengshui? Get a panel at the back to block bad fengshui, problem solved??

987E4157-BCC4-4715-8538-E1F94E0A6FA7.png

Edited by TDX
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On 03/09/2020 at 7:06 PM, TDX said:

imageproxy.php?img=&key=6052995cfa95af68Textured wall should be good diffuser for your sound in a good way.  

Negative fengshui? Get a panel at the back to block bad fengshui, problem solved??

 

HAHA well played Sir !  I think i will do that. I've seen some at freedom and ive got store credit there. winning. 

 

Just looking for a decent 3m speaker cable, also thx to Chanh i picked up some acoustic foam.   

 

 

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Neat room plan and video at the start Pasic007!     Impressed an old luddite like me.

 

2Brix mentioned Dynaudio's "rule of fifths".

To find out a bit more about that, and for a lot of great advice from Dynaudio's guru Roland Hoffman,  google "A masterclass in speaker placement" -  on Youtube.

Roland covers all of the things which others SNA members have mentioned and a whole lot more, including what to do in odd shaped rooms etc.

 

Based upon what Roland will be showing you, can't help but agree with Al.M and TDX, and wonder if swapping the whole set-up 180 degrees is worth trying. i.e. speakers near the "open" wall (where seating is at the moment, seat nearer the front door entrance area). Will be surprised if you don't like what that set-up creates in terms of sound.  Will also enable you to have more distance between your seat and what will be the new rear wall (near the front entrance). Could also open up ease of movement to/from front door?

With greatest of respect to your g.f., would like to suggest that negative energy flows in the room will not be created by doing this.

 

Anyway, Roland's 44 minute masterclass will be time well spent.  At the end of it you will have a solid idea about  what  the amount of toe-in does (and how to work out how much/how little toe-in you use), speaker placement (including how to work out the distance from rear and side walls, listening position relative to speakers and rear wall, finding the best position for mid/base balance, fine tuning the set-up etc etc. 

 

Looks like you have some nice gear, and  a nice listening/living room.  Enjoy.

Will be interested to know what you end up with in terms of the room and equipment placement, and the factors that influenced your final set-up choice, if you are happy to share that later on.

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 Thanks mate,  I cant take all the credit my 8yo girl done half the work, It's pretty easy to draw things up in fusion.  She has been very interested since our little project. I might have an architect on my hands.

 

I had look at youtube video, there was few others i came across as well that were helpful. Before i can move speaker position i need get some longer cables. I am actually thinking of getting something like Power plant P15. and run the mono blocks into it.  Room has single power outlets in each corner.. not handy lol.  Other alternative is to get a sparky in and do 3 dedicated lines.  

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Hello Pasic007.

 

Your daughter sounds like an intelligent young lady who has some nice computer skills, and it's nice for you both to share an interest in the project.

 

If you want to see what sound you get by swapping the system round, the easy option is to shift the whole system to the opposite end of the room as suggested, and use maybe a surge protected power-board  from one of your single outlets to provide power to the system for a short term experiment of maybe a few days.

 

That avoids the need to get longer speaker cables etc, and will soon tell you which of the options you like best.

Once you have worked out which you feel is the better of the 2 options, you will then know what you might want/need in terms of dedicated lines etc.

A fun weekend experiment to share with your daughter?

 

Hmm - just had another look at your amps on the video. Solid, lovely looking bits of gear from what I could see.  Pretty weighty too by the look of them.

I'm guessing that's why you are thinking of moving just the speakers? Understandable.

 

Who knows - you may well decide, after the experiment, that you like  the sound provided by the present positioning, and decide to move everything back to where you now have it.

 

A few months ago, we experimented with several options in our  living/listening room, and the one which we finally chose gives a whole lot more in sound quality and enjoyment of music than where we had the system previously. 

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On 21/08/2020 at 8:13 PM, Pasic007 said:

 

No idea if this is ideal position, my room is kinda messed up.  

Happy to take all recommendations on board. :)

 

 

house 3.jpg

@Pasic007, your current position may be a good option though having the window on one side and not the other can cause an imbalance.

If this is the case it might be possible to counteract this by hanging a fake curtain behind the speaker against the wall.

 

Another option to try is an unorthodox setup but one that apparently usually works quite well is having the speakers on each side of the corner with the window facing diagonally into the room rather than both on the same wall.

 

F3844A7B-FBCE-4DF1-91AA-0CF8936993EA.jpeg.dccf331cf805a67b231f06d8cb831eba.jpeg
 

 

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On 25/08/2020 at 8:34 AM, Pasic007 said:

To add to the room complexity that feature wall has a lot of texture, i can just imagine what that does to the sound. 

Absolutely nothing.

 

If you simulate a diffusor with the sized elements of "textured wall" ... it does nothing.

 

For example.... if the bumps on your wall were 3cm "tall"  (which I assume they are nothing like that large) ... then your "diffusor" stops working below approximately 4khz.   As the bumps get smaller... the frequency goes up (quick).

 

To soundwaves your "textured wall" .... looks just like a flat wall.

Edited by davewantsmoore
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49 minutes ago, Martykt said:

@Pasic007, .

 

F3844A7B-FBCE-4DF1-91AA-0CF8936993EA.jpeg.dccf331cf805a67b231f06d8cb831eba.jpeg
 

 

Never crossed my mind to try that. I will  explore this  arrangement once the single seater arrives, there was 16 week leadtime probably another 8 to go :)

I was planning to have two racks in that corner as it is out of the way.

 

@davewantsmoore thanks for that info!

 

So late last night once everything was connected and heated up i had listen to few tracks and i was suprised at how much more bass there was not just in the seating postion but in the whole room!!! 

 

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51 minutes ago, Pasic007 said:

Never crossed my mind to try that. I will  explore this  arrangement once the single seater arrives, there was 16 week leadtime probably another 8 to go :)

I was planning to have two racks in that corner as it is out of the way.

 

@davewantsmoore thanks for that info!

 

So late last night once everything was connected and heated up i had listen to few tracks and i was suprised at how much more bass there was not just in the seating postion but in the whole room!!! 

 

Hello Pasic007.

 

Not surprised that the bass has improved in the room with the new set-up. If it appears to be "too much", go back to Roland's video where he explains how to get the bass happening "right", and how to get the mid/bass balance sorted. (he also looks at adjusting the toe-in to sort the treble - you will have watched that aspect).

 

One question - You may already have the prime listening spot in the seating position right in the middle of the right hand side of your couch. If however, you have enough room to move the couch maybe 30 cms(?) roughly, to the left as you are facing the speakers,  while keeping the main listening position in the centre of the right hand part of the couch, that may open up a bit more space on the right hand side of the couch for movement from the stairs behind the couch, into and through the room? Will of course put the left hand side of the couch a bit closer to the wall, but that doesn't appear to be an important "movement corridor"? 

I hope that the above makes sense?

May not be an improvement - only a thought after looking at photo of latest set-up, which, incidentally, I think looks terrific, and is certainly the way I would have set it up.

 

One last thought - "davewantsmore" (based upon other comments he has made on SNA) has almost certainly forgotten more than I and most others have ever seen/read about speakers and their placement. I would think that it is always worth listening to/considering anything which he says or writes.

 

You have done the heavy lifting with the gear - enjoy the music for a few days as you adjust to the new set-up and do some fine tuning. 

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On 12/09/2020 at 8:58 AM, parrasaw said:

 

One question - You may already have the prime listening spot in the seating position right in the middle of the right hand side of your couch. If however, you have enough room to move the couch maybe 30 cms(?) roughly, to the left as you are facing the speakers,  while keeping the main listening position in the centre of the right hand part of the couch, that may open up a bit more space on the right hand side of the couch for movement from the stairs behind the couch, into and through the room? Will of course put the left hand side of the couch a bit closer to the wall, but that doesn't appear to be an important "movement corridor"? 

I hope that the above makes sense?

May not be an improvement - only a thought after looking at photo of latest set-up, which, incidentally, I think looks terrific, and is certainly the way I would have set it up.

 

  Hi parrasaw,  i kept it at that position so i can place wine on the shelf next to me ? I do have a matching single seat sofa on order it was 16 week leadtime so i will probably place that where the two seater is. 

 

Now not sure what to do with 5 week old 2 seats sofa lol, maybe against the wall between speakers :(

 

On 12/09/2020 at 4:08 PM, perthpete said:

And maybe organize a little (Perth-) SNA-GTG when all settled? :>:>

Sounds good. Once i purchase some new speakers..  ill provide cheap wine and good coffee :D 

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