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I'll offer what I know as I have been interested in the Denon LOMC and HOMC carts and reading about these over the past month or so.  I have come to understand each cart step increases the level of refinement (subjectively as all things are).  The 110 is of course HO so not relevant here to the question above.

 

The 103 been around like 50yrs and was the broadcast favourite for aeons, tracks like a trooper and performs very well but is said to maybe lack some refinement but has warmth - that said, I have not read anything inherently negative on it at all and like many things some prefer it over its newer family member the 103R which is attributed to being more refined but can be an analytical affair albeit with a bit more bass and high end to it than the 103.  Everyone hears differently I guess.

There was also improved suspension in the 103R and it has an ever so slightly lower output.  I am sure those that have had both carts will chime on this.  Tonearm matching is of course is a factor with a reletively low compliance cart at 8.2grams too.

 

There are some good clips on YouTube detailing the Denon range and comparisons.  Recently there is a one with LP gears own Bin cart vs the DL110 and the 103R.  I know YouTube isnt the ideal medium but its a reference starting point.

 

I googled "Denon 103 vs 103R" and there was plenty of great informative user experiences on many forums, I won't link to another forum here but type the search in and grab a beer or coffee for a good read.

 

....Not sure If I have actually helped any but after my research with the price the 103R actually with the price Amazon has all the Denon carts they're all a very appealing prospect.

 

cheers

 

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Geoff Blundell at @Toma Audio is a big fan of the 103R and says fitted with a wooden body it enters into another level and punches well above it's weight and class. The late Duc from here, friend to many, made superb wooden bodies. A Sth Korean audiophile company also makes superb bodies for these also and the German guy who's all over eBay makes good ones at reasonable prices.

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7 minutes ago, Luc said:

Geoff Blundell at @Toma Audio is a big fan of the 103R and says fitted with a wooden body it enters into another level and punches well above it's weight and class. The late Duc from here, friend to many, made superb wooden bodies. A Sth Korean audiophile company also makes superb bodies for these also and the German guy who's all over eBay makes good ones at reasonable prices.

 

Is the wooden body that improves to another level only apply to 103R or it also applies to 103? Not sure how much it improves and I guess that it applies to both and improve to another level?

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7 minutes ago, Luc said:

Geoff Blundell at @Toma Audio is a big fan of the 103R and says fitted with a wooden body it enters into another level and punches well above it's weight and class. The late Duc from here, friend to many, made superb wooden bodies. A Sth Korean audiophile company also makes superb bodies for these also and the German guy who's all over eBay makes good ones at reasonable prices.

103R in Duc's Black Ebony body - Duc's 12" Univector arm. Was a beautiful combination.

Denon 103R ESC modified cart in black ebony wood body..jpg

Picture 1062.jpg

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36 minutes ago, cheekyboy said:

103R in Duc's Black Ebony body - Duc's 12" Univector arm. Was a beautiful combination.

Denon 103R ESC modified cart in black ebony wood body..jpg

Picture 1062.jpg

Still is Keith ;) 

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11 hours ago, Telecine said:

Still is Keith ;) 

That's good to hear, J.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

Picture 1135.jpg

Picture 1121.jpg

Orsonic headshell & Denon DL103R 002.jpg

ZD5 Standmounts in back room.............. 007.jpg

Edited by cheekyboy
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30 minutes ago, vinilink said:

Does anyone using this cart on rega rb300 arm? Currently using sumiko bps which I am happy with. 

 

3 minutes ago, pulinap said:

I have used Vinyl Engine tool to check the suitability.....

 

https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php

 

You need to know the effective mass of your tonearm and cartridge weight.

The tonearm mass is 11.5g and I have fitted both the DL103 and DL103R to both a RB300 arm and a RB600 arm and they worked fine. I would advise adding 2 or 3 grams to the headshell to give it a little more mass, but even without the added weight, they'll perform well in that arm.:thumb:

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

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5 minutes ago, cheekyboy said:

 

The tonearm mass is 11.5g and I have fitted both the DL103 and DL103R to both a RB300 arm and a RB600 arm and they worked fine. I would advise adding 2 or 3 grams to the headshell to give it a little more mass, but even without the added weight, they'll perform well in that arm.:thumb:

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Thank you!

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4 minutes ago, Honreekea said:

Thanks.  But,... call me stupid, how do i work out the effective mass?

 

 

Screen Shot 2020-06-02 at 1.09.25 PM.png

Need to ask the tonearm manufacturer.....

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21 hours ago, Spider27 said:

 

Is the wooden body that improves to another level only apply to 103R or it also applies to 103? Not sure how much it improves and I guess that it applies to both and improve to another level?

You'll have to buy a wooden body and find out...only way.

No amount of back and forth here will tell your ears.

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On 01/06/2020 at 12:19 PM, Spider27 said:

is there a noticeable difference between 103 and 103R?

Hi Jim,

 

I’d be surprised if a stock 103R beat the rebuilt woodbody 103 you bought from me. That was one of Duc’s as well. Just my opinion, but there’s only one way to find out.

 

Peter

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2 minutes ago, PMac76 said:

Hi Jim,

 

I’d be surprised if a stock 103R beat the rebuilt woodbody 103 you bought from me. That was one of Duc’s as well. Just my opinion, but there’s only one way to find out.

 

Peter

 

I guess that the only way to quantify the difference it makes is to compare among 4 different scenarios into same system (TT, PhonoPre and Speakers).

 

1. Stock 103 vs 103R

2. Stock 103 vs Woody Stock 103

3. Stock 103R vs Woody 103R

4. Woody 103 vs Woody 103R

 

What's even more interesting (confusing?) is there are so many different types of woods (Cocobolo, Teak, Ebony, Bubinga, Zebrawood, Mahogany, Walnut, Snakewood etc etc). Some people say that different wood housing even makes difference due to variety of density and unique characteristics of wood.

 

And, there is another twist, Aluminum and magnesium body from Zu Audio and other companies which people claim that it also makes sonic difference in sound comparing with wood housing.

 

Just thinking of how daunting this might be, Ignorance might be a blessing.

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I had an aluminium bodied 103 with a Soundsmith ruby cantilever and top of the range stylus profile, replaced it with a VdH DDT-II which I now have in my Rock.

 

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I too run a 103r in a Duc wood body - just fantastic.  It just seems to find a beautiful road between detail, vibe, tone and cost!

There are still plenty of people who can make a wood body, and plenty of vids about putting one together oneself if you're so inclined.....

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Here's a pic of one of Duc's wood bodies for the D103 (does it also fit the 103r?).  I took the pic - many years ago - because I thought it was absolutely beautiful:  :)

 

 

295211294_Denon103Body.jpg.b7971aae3dde27e58ed5eed5d3e79a50.jpg

 

 

If anybody likes it ... it may still be available from @petng, who - with I think, @Red MacKay, is getting on with the job of turning Duc's vast treasure trove into cash for his family.  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

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