Ethernet cables for audio - Part A: List of cables, related info & experiences

[evil c]

1 minute ago, Assisi said:

You can purchase the Acoustic Revive R-AL1 cables in Australia with Telegartner plugs connected. 

Contact https://soundgallery.com.au/

 

 

He has already been furnished with all of the details,  John!

Some people like to get to their destination, via the longest route.

[MattyW]

This way I can find out if the connectors make much difference.

[MattyW]

Damn. The Acoustic Revive cables are special. Absolutely magical.
 

0.5M AR LAN-1.0TrippleC between server & Renolabs Ultimate switch
1.0M AR R-AL1 between Renolabs Ultimate switch & main Deco X60

1.0M AR R-AL1 between Renolabs Ultimate switch & Firewalla Gold Firewall Router

1.0M AR LAN-1.0TrippleC between Deco X60 & Eno Ag filter on Roon end point/Media PC

 

I still have a 0.5M Supra CAT8 between the NBN modem and Firewalla Gold. Not sure if I can be bothered changing it to be honest.

 

Incredible insight but so very smooth and natural. I still have Telegartner connectors coming to rewire the R-AL1 and remaining Supra 8 cables though I’m not sure I can really be bothered. The Firewalla Gold and TP-Link Deco X60's all have their own linear power supplies. Not going to try changing fuses in those though.

Edited October 20, 2021 by MattyW

[Assisi]

11 minutes ago, MattyW said:

Roon end point/Media PC

What is the Roon end point/Media PC?  What happens after the Media PC or where and how does the signal go next?

 

John

[MattyW]

1 hour ago, Assisi said:

What is the Roon end point/Media PC?  What happens after the Media PC or where and how does the signal go next?

 

John

Its a passively cooled Maxtang Mini PC on Windows 11 Pro (Ryzen 2500U, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, dual Intel GbE NIC’s) on its own 19v LPS with pure silver DC umbilical. It’s connected to a Farad Super3+Copper L2 umbilical powered Mutec MC3+USB & Farad Super3+Copper L2 umbilical powered Afterdark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock with a custom double shielded Duelund Pure silver clock cable via a 30cm Gothic Audio Semperfi “The Outsider” pure silver USB cable. The Mutec outputs to my Abbas Audio DAC 2.2SE via an Abbas Audio vintage copper SPDIF cable. The result is sheer magic.
 

Having effectively run out of tweaks I’m down to trying better fuses in my gear now. Have Synergistic Research Purple & Orange fuses on the way as well as Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme3 silver/gold fuses. I’m not interested in vibration damping or room treatments so after this I guess I’m done?

Edited October 20, 2021 by MattyW

[RussB]

7 hours ago, MattyW said:

Its a passively cooled Maxtang Mini PC on Windows 11 Pro (Ryzen 2500U, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, dual Intel GbE NIC’s) on its own 19v LPS with pure silver DC umbilical. It’s connected to a Farad Super3+Copper L2 umbilical powered Mutec MC3+USB & Farad Super3+Copper L2 umbilical powered Afterdark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock with a custom double shielded Duelund Pure silver clock cable via a 30cm Gothic Audio Semperfi “The Outsider” pure silver USB cable. The Mutec outputs to my Abbas Audio DAC 2.2SE via an Abbas Audio vintage copper SPDIF cable. The result is sheer magic.
 

Having effectively run out of tweaks I’m down to trying better fuses in my gear now. Have Synergistic Research Purple & Orange fuses on the way as well as Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme3 silver/gold fuses. I’m not interested in vibration damping or room treatments so after this I guess I’m done?

I doubt it.  If you are like many of us here on SNA, once you have finished with what you are working on now which you believe to be the last improvement needed (fuses), the remaining bits (vibration, room) will all of a sudden start to take a higher priority.  They will take a year or so to sort, and by that time some of your other gear will need updating, and on it goes.  

[POV]

7 hours ago, MattyW said:

Its a passively cooled Maxtang Mini PC on Windows 11 Pro (Ryzen 2500U, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, dual Intel GbE NIC’s) on its own 19v LPS with pure silver DC umbilical. It’s connected to a Farad Super3+Copper L2 umbilical powered Mutec MC3+USB & Farad Super3+Copper L2 umbilical powered Afterdark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock with a custom double shielded Duelund Pure silver clock cable via a 30cm Gothic Audio Semperfi “The Outsider” pure silver USB cable. The Mutec outputs to my Abbas Audio DAC 2.2SE via an Abbas Audio vintage copper SPDIF cable. The result is sheer magic.
 

 

Having effectively run out of tweaks I’m down to trying better fuses in my gear now. Have Synergistic Research Purple & Orange fuses on the way as well as Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme3 silver/gold fuses. I’m not interested in vibration damping or room treatments so after this I guess I’m done?

 

Why would you not be interested in room treatments?  Seriously I'm completely intrigued by what would lead to someone investing in bizarre fringe tweaks like fuses, but ignore the undeniable impact of room acoustics!

[MattyW]

1 minute ago, POV said:

 

Why would you not be interested in room treatments?  Seriously I'm completely intrigued by what would lead to someone investing in bizarre fringe tweaks like fuses, but ignore the undeniable impact of room acoustics!

Acceptance by my wife is the thing. A rug and curtains is all she will accept and it’s really not worth the abuse to try for more.

[GaryT]

1 hour ago, MattyW said:

Acceptance by my wife is the thing. A rug and curtains is all she will accept and it’s really not worth the abuse to try for more.

 

 

Then get 8 rugs and heavy curtains covering every wall and window.

[MattyW]

23 minutes ago, GaryT said:

 

 

Then get 8 rugs and heavy curtains covering every wall and window.

 

Lol, that would lead to massive arguments here which would ultimately lead to it being reversed and I'd still cop it over money wasted for the next few months. I've already done what is allowed. I.e. a rug and curtains. If I had a dedicated listening room things might be different however in my instance both listening area's are shared living areas..... I.e. we have 2x lounge rooms. About the only other tweaks I could get away with are vibration isolation for components, weights sitting on top of components etc. Apart from my DAC which has tubes in it, I can't understand why that would make any real difference.

 

Mmmmm, I can certainly add some more vibration deadening material inside my DIY speakers. There space between the fullrange and woofers. May need to do that at some point. Every time I've added more inside my speakers it has improved performance. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by MattyW

[POV]

1 hour ago, MattyW said:

Acceptance by my wife is the thing. A rug and curtains is all she will accept and it’s really not worth the abuse to try for more.

 

You don't need to turn your house into an industrial recording studio.   There is a heap of very stylish and room friendly solutions available for almost any type of room or space.

 

I have recently treated my new office space utilising a range of products from these guys:

 

Acoustic Panels Australia | Sound Absorbing Panel | Ceiling Acoustic Panel Supplier (sontext.com.au)

 

Our main living area we treated using this pack and our room looks great:

 

Vicoustic VicAudiophile VMT Kit – Addicted To Audio

 

This is only 2 examples and there are a vast array of others.  Considering the amount of money you must be throwing at all these network cable, power cable, fuse tweaks seriously something to consider.  The differences a treated room make will absolutely blow your mind.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by POV

[MattyW]

The spaces where these would go, are taken by oil paintings and prints picked out by the wife. Not going to happen guys.

[Assisi]

9 hours ago, MattyW said:

Its a passively cooled Maxtang Mini PC on Windows 11 Pro (Ryzen 2500U, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, dual Intel GbE NIC’s) on its own 19v LPS with pure silver DC umbilical. It’s connected to a Farad Super3+Copper L2 umbilical powered Mutec MC3+USB & Farad Super3+Copper L2 umbilical powered Afterdark Emperor Double Crown OCXO clock with a custom double shielded Duelund Pure silver clock cable via a 30cm Gothic Audio Semperfi “The Outsider” pure silver USB cable. The Mutec outputs to my Abbas Audio DAC 2.2SE via an Abbas Audio vintage copper SPDIF cable. The result is sheer magic

I was curious as to what was the final Ethernet step/connection in your system.  Obviously it is the ENO connection to the ROON Core PC.

John

[MattyW]

57 minutes ago, Assisi said:

I was curious as to what was the final Ethernet step/connection in your system.  Obviously it is the ENO connection to the ROON Core PC.

John

 

Ah, I wasn't sure about which part so listed the entire chain. But yes, it's the ENO Ag filter. Interestingly the cable between the Eno Ag and Deco does make a noticeable difference to the overall sound and I've previously noted differences in other parts of the chain as well though to a lesser extent so it's not just the Eno Ag at play here. I can't get over how smooth the AR cables make the sound. Totally grain free, which means no fatigue despite an increase in overall detail and insight into the mix. A very definite improvement from the Supra.

Edited October 21, 2021 by MattyW

[Southerly]

Room treatments LOL - the elephant isn't in the room, the room is the elephant. I remember buying a s/hand component from someone who had moved from an old Georgian house (UK of course) to a modern house with those terrible crap wooden stud and plasterboard walls and wondered where all the bass had gone.

 

Here in France if you asked a builder to double skin the walls and ceiling he would look at you as if you were mad, they don't even bother to tape the joints, which is why you hear Frenchmen complaining about 'cracks' in the walls. Or you have walls that use the really **** 3" hollow clay blocks that make a room ring like a bell, coupled with tiled floors. Once saw an advert on the tele  from one of the big builder merchants - Leroy Merlin, with this guy talking and his voice rang like a bell and there in this big  sterile white painted room was a grand piano. The only thing to do if someone was silly enough to try and play it was to wear the very best ear protection going.

[Assisi]

Network Filters.

I have previously posted in this thread that I had purchased a Network Acoustics ENO Ethernet Filter that provided an enhanced listening experience for me.  I came across a report of a Filter from Waversa called the WLAN EXT 1.  Based upon my experience with the quality of other Waversa products in my system I was interested in the filter.  I made an enquiry.  I was told that Waversa actually has two filters.  The small one above and the physically bigger WLAN EXT Reference.  The EXT stands for external as I also discovered that the Waversa Core that I have has a small internal filter based on the same configuration as the two external filters.

 

Early last week I was able to listen to both versions of the External Filters.  I now have had the Reference version in my system for week.  There is no mention of the Reference version on the Internet that I can find at this time.  It has not been officially announced/released by Waversa at this time. 

 

My perspective was that there was a benefit with the small one possibly equivalent to the ENO.  The listening impact was noticeably just more enhanced benefit.  The decisions of one over the other was easy despite the cost difference as I have the ENO.

If any one is interested, this is the report that started me off considering the Waversa filters. 

 

John

WLAN EXT Review_Hifi Club-compressed(1).pdf

[frednork]

The above post recently got me interested in trying the AIM NA7 ethernet  cable. After some enquiries, @JDWest from Sublime Hifi who is the Australian distributor generously agreed to loan some cables for a lucky few to try of which I was one. I was in the middle of transitioning from one setup to the other so whilst I received a positive benefit in the first setup i didnt want  to post anything until I had tried it in my new setup. More info on the NA7 and NA5 is here https://www.sublimehifi.com.au/products/computers/audio-lan-shieldio-na7?cat=36 

and here https://www.sublimehifi.com.au/products/computers/audio-lan-shieldio-na5?cat=36. 

 

For me the NA7 (in the right setup) gave the clearest and most natural presentation of all the cables I compared it with.  The soundstage and space the music was in  was more present and defined. There was enhanced detail but not an increase in brightness  that can often go with that and can be unwelcome.

 

I also tried the NA5 and while the benefits in soundstage and detail were less pronounced the general flavour of the cable was similar and at the price highly recommended for consideration.

 

These are not cheap cables and really can benefit a mature digital front end.  To those thinking it might improve the quality from their simple digital setup please see below.

 

I did try a few different setups with the NA7 and can say that the benefits definitely varied depending on the setup when compared with other cables.  On a simpler setup the NA7 was easily outclassed by another cable. on a mid level setup the 2 were different and each had their advantages  and disadvantages. On my current setup the NA7 was quite a bit better. And yes I will be voting with my wallet and will be purchasing the NA7.

 

These differences and interactions with the other parts of the system do not make finding the best fit as simple as you would hope.  I highly recommend trying in your setup prior to purchase if possible.

 

Many thanks to @JDWest for the chance to try these.

 

[dbastin]

3 hours ago, Assisi said:

My perspective was that there was a benefit with the small one possibly equivalent to the ENO.  The listening impact was noticeably just more enhanced benefit.  The decisions of one over the other was easy despite the cost difference as I have the ENO.

So there is the small one = LAN EXT 1. 

And the bigger one = WLAN EXT Reference

 

It seems your comment above is about the small one only, although you said you'd had the bigger Reference one in your system for a week.  What are your thoughts about the Reference?  What will it cost?

 

49 minutes ago, frednork said:

On a simpler setup the NA7 was easily outclassed by another cable. on a mid level setup the 2 were different and each had their advantages  and disadvantages.

 

So we understand your benchmark, what was the other cable?

 

BTW, I agree, too much of a good thing can be unpleasant, even if intoxicating at first.

Edited November 15, 2021 by dbastin

[frednork]

8 minutes ago, dbastin said:

So we understand your benchmark, what was the other cable?

 

It was mainly the acoustic revive mentioned on here previously (at much less cost) but I did try other cables loaned to me by other generous members. I dont wish to publicly name them and unintentionally create a negative connotation with them. I also would not be surprised if in another setup they might be preferred over the AIM as I found in some of the setups I tried.  I really would just say try it in your system.  For reference the dac was Mola Mola Makua internal dac and a 2 box nuc setup with JCAT Xe net and usb cards powered by 4 LPS's with USB into the Makua.

 

Hopefully others can report on their impressions and comparisons as more people try them. 

[Assisi]

6 hours ago, dbastin said:

So there is the small one = LAN EXT 1. 

And the bigger one = WLAN EXT Reference

 

It seems your comment above is about the small one only, although you said you'd had the bigger Reference one in your system for a week.  What are your thoughts about the Reference?  What will it cost?

 

There are two.  I have the WLAN EXT Reference.  I have not found a mention of it on the internet any where except for a post  I made on another forum a few days ago.  It is as if it doesn't exist.  It does.  Initially when I was told that there where two I said no, one only.  My understanding was based on a mention of the LAN EXT 1 that I had found including the link to the document that I included in my post above.  Attached are photos of mine.

 

 

 

The things that are obvious from the start are the wider 3D sound stage, more detail, lower noise floor that possibly increases the volume a few more db and the bass control.  With the details I played a few tracks that I had not listened to for awhile.  My impression was that I heard some small but important aspects that I had not heard before.  The sound is more smooth.  Whilst the db outcome is slightly higher you can increase the volume slightly and there is more pleasure.

 

 

 

It is passive like the ENO. There is just an in and out and you can choose which one is which.  I have marked mine to keep it always the same.  It seems that even if you have it connected to a switch with only one socket so that the signal is not going in and out there is still a network benefit.  Strange.

 

 

Cost $5,990.  Ouch.  Worth it though for me as it depends on how you look at things as I do.  When I traveled home on the train and bus for two hours I thought to my self are you stupid or are you stupid?  When I put in my system I knew immediately that I had made the right decision.  There are another two on order and I understand that one is definitely pre sold and the other is highly likely sold.  So, I am not the only one. 

 

John

Edited November 15, 2021 by Assisi

[dbastin]

On 15/11/2021 at 11:42 AM, frednork said:

For reference the dac was Mola Mola Makua internal dac and a 2 box nuc setup with JCAT Xe net and usb cards powered by 4 LPS's with USB into the Makua.

 

Just as an aside ... I suggest 1st priority is to isolate electrical noise between devices.  And that entails only using cables where necessary or where the cable sounds better than isolation and that point in the network.  Isolation is fiber or wifi.

 

If you mean 1 nuc is server and 1 nuc is renderer, and they both have wifi, try wifi connection between them rather than ethernet cable ...  either configure both nuc wifi as access points/hotspots, or use an intermediate wifi access point powered via LPS or even battery.  And tell us how that sounds compared to the cables you have. 

 

I assume the USB card is in an external chassis connected to the server nuc via thunderbolt - I imagine thunderbolt is a rare thing to find in the world of audiophile cabling.  Maybe you could use an optical HDMI instead (eg. FIBBER).

[dbastin]

21 hours ago, Assisi said:

There are two.  I have the WLAN EXT Reference. 

So, are you saying the small one is similar to ENO but with the Reference ... 

"The listening impact was noticeably just more enhanced benefit.  The decisions of one over the other was easy despite the cost difference as I have the ENO."

Edited November 16, 2021 by dbastin

[Assisi]

1 hour ago, dbastin said:

So, are you saying the small one is similar to ENO but with the Reference ... 

"The listening impact was noticeably just more enhanced benefit.  The decisions of one over the other was easy despite the cost difference as I have the ENO."

Absolutely and getting better as the Reference settles in more.  There are several positions in my network as to where I can connect it.  I am not yet sure where  is best to have it. Work in progress.

 

John

[frednork]

2 hours ago, dbastin said:

Just as an aside ... I suggest 1st priority is to isolate electrical noise between devices.  And that entails only using cables where necessary or where the cable sounds better than isolation and that point in the network.  Isolation is fiber or wifi.

I have tried fiber and wifi previously and am not convinced at this stage. I will keep trying however.

 

2 hours ago, dbastin said:

I assume the USB card is in an external chassis connected to the server nuc via thunderbolt - I imagine thunderbolt is a rare thing to find in the world of audiophile cabling.  Maybe you could use an optical HDMI instead (eg. FIBBER).

 

No, the cards hang off an m2 to pcie adapter cable and as mentioned are powered separately.

 

This setup will soon be upgraded to a higher spec server and renderer (non nuc) which will have the cards connected directly to pcie.

 

 

 

[AccuTidal]

I’ve also found myself concur with @frednork regarding wifi vs LAN for SQ from computer audio. Perhaps my setup isn’t fit nor resolving adequately to  audibly observed wifi was or is better.