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Ethernet cables for audio - Part A: List of cables, related info & experiences


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3 hours ago, dbastin said:

Dudes ... this thread is about Ethernet Cables for Audio.

I assume Frednork was initially highlighting an assessment that shows higher grade cables make a difference.

You make a valid point, and I apologise for sidetracking the thread.

All I wanted to do was show that the miniscule variations in the test that @frednork pointed to could all have been shot to shot variation and nothing to do with the cable and/or equipment changes.

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18 minutes ago, pwstereo said:

That's the whole point, nothing at all changed between frames.

It is one image that is sized to the pixel dimensions of a 4k screen.

No need, all images shot raw, equal correction and processing applied to all in each set.

It's not about colour accuracy, it's about shot to shot variation with no change at all in environment and equipment.

 

It was intended to show that the test referenced above was not a valid demonstration of cable and equipment changes.

 

I would agree it's not a valid demo, though with some controls it could be made so. RAW shooting changes what you can correct, equal correction/processing just makes it relative to the shot, which can change. I don't disagree with you - it can be better controlled tho. 

 

Insofar as audio I'd setup a rig to play one low tone overnight, sample the outputs and run 100 or so realisations of a silly-long FFT on the highest resolution sample one could muster. Overnight to get closer to a stable mains. Then plot spectra, zoom in hard on the frequency of interest and see what you've got - cable, special cable and no cable (if you can). Keep that tone nice and low, 20Hz or so ought to do it.

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18 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

Insofar as audio I'd setup a rig to play one low tone overnight, sample the outputs and run 100 or so realisations of a silly-long FFT on the highest resolution sample one could muster. Overnight to get closer to a stable mains. Then plot spectra, zoom in hard on the frequency of interest and see what you've got - cable, special cable and no cable (if you can). Keep that tone nice and low, 20Hz or so ought to do it.

Yes.

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  • 1 month later...

Besides focussing on Shunyata, the general message of this review (scroll right down) is that cables make a big difference ...

 

What have I learnt from this extended session with the Shunyata ethernet cable family? First, that the ‘entry’ level Venom is a huge improvement over standard ethernet cables. Secondly that one can hear the differences between the Common Mode filtered cables and the unfiltered ones. Unless you have a super high end system you may well find that one of the latter is more than good enough for your purposes.   At about three times the price, the Sigma is astonishingly good – if you have a system sufficiently revealing to let you hear what the Sigma is doing then just go for it. It would be fascinating to see how much better an upmarket router could make things (a better power supply on standard router helps – Ed). 

 

https://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/shunyata-research-venom-delta-alpha-sigma-ethernet-cables

 
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  • 2 months later...

My first post in this thread.  I have previously listened to several different types of Ethernet cable and not ever heard significant differences between them.  These have included:

- basic cat 6e

- imported Chinese cat8 (yellow jacket)

- supra cat8 with telegartner plugs

- Audioquest cinnamon

- Audioquest diamond

 

Today I heard a cable that to my ears made a significant, albeit small, overall improvement to my music.  That cable is made locally (in Melbourne) from Acoustic Revive cable with telegartner plugs.  The cables I heard are owned by @Assisi, and on the basis of what I heard today, I have ordered some for myself.

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  • 3 months later...
On 09/09/2020 at 8:13 PM, Assisi said:

@Whites,

The Cables that I have are assembled in Melbourne from imported bulk cable and Telegartner plugs.  The Ebay product all seems to be assembled in Japan.  A quick look on Ebay shows two levels of cable.  One is double the cost per metre compared to the other.  The more expensive cable has Telegartner ends.  Which one did you buy? 

 

I consider that all good cables take a period to settle in.

John

Is there any still available for sale?

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Hi @TDX,

 

The cables are normally made up to order depending on the length required.  I think that there maybe 1.5 mt stock made up.  They come from Sound Gallery in McKinnon in Melbourne.

https://www.soundgallery.com.au/

 

I have been progressively changing all my cables to the red with the Telegartner ends.  I now have 12 for my connection needs.  They provide a benefit

John

 

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15 minutes ago, Assisi said:

Hi @TDX,

 

The cables are normally made up to order depending on the length required.  I think that there maybe 1.5 mt stock made up.  They come from Sound Gallery in McKinnon in Melbourne.

https://www.soundgallery.com.au/

 

I have been progressively changing all my cables to the red with the Telegartner ends.  I now have 12 for my connection needs.  They provide a benefit

John

 

 

Thank you John. They are not listed on their website so I may need to contact them. I also saw the red cable on Ebay. But how can I tell whether they are equiped with Telegartner ends? 

 

Tony

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Interesting results some of you are having with these relative expensive Ethernet cables for audio.

In all honesty, my current experience ...I'm using a 10 meter length of Cat6a obviously due to the modem/router been that far away, from my system.

 

I've tried 12 meters & 15 meters in Cat6a, as I already had the cables.... to me it made no difference in sound quality with those extra meters to my 10 meter run, well that I could hear anyway. My systems sounds detailed, it has a full wide/deep sound stage, smooth,fast tight bass etc, it's all there even with my nothing special 10 meter run of cat6a cable. 

 

I always keep an open mind about trying things, we all love our music and listening to it as best as we possibly can from our own systems, but it would be an expensive experiment for me to buy one...  If someone had a 10 meter length of a high quality audio Ethernet cable I could try for a day, I will be willing to give it an audition, and of course can provide wine & nibbles for their time and kind gesture on the day.

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4 minutes ago, Bass13 said:

Interesting results some of you are having with these relative expensive Ethernet cables for audio.

In all honesty, my current experience ...I'm using a 10 meter length of Cat6a obviously due to the modem/router been that far away, from my system.

 

I've tried 12 meters & 15 meters in Cat6a, as I already had the cables.... to me it made no difference in sound quality with those extra meters to my 10 meter run, well that I could hear anyway. My systems sounds detailed, it has a full wide/deep sound stage, smooth,fast tight bass etc, it's all there even with my nothing special 10 meter run of cat6a cable. 

 

I always keep an open mind about trying things, we all love our music and listening to it as best as we possibly can from our own systems, but it would be an expensive experiment for me to buy one...  If someone had a 10 meter length of a high quality audio Ethernet cable I could try for a day, I will be willing to give it an audition, and of course can provide wine & nibbles for their time and kind gesture on the day.

What i’d suggest is to use optical for those longer runs plus it gives an isolation to the cable router. Dont use a cheap dlink (and such) but a cisco 2960 or similar switch, or an optical module from sonore. And then use the shorter better ethernet in shorter runs. 

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1 hour ago, TDX said:

 

Thank you John. They are not listed on their website so I may need to contact them. I also saw the red cable on Ebay. But how can I tell whether they are equiped with Telegartner ends? 

 

Tony

Hi Tony,

Contact John.  The phone number is on the website.  I cannot comment on the Ebay product.  John's cables work.  I am seeing John tomorrow I will mention your interest.

 

John

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17 minutes ago, Bass13 said:

Interesting results some of you are having with these relative expensive Ethernet cables for audio.

In all honesty, my current experience ...I'm using a 10 meter length of Cat6a obviously due to the modem/router been that far away, from my system.

 

I've tried 12 meters & 15 meters in Cat6a, as I already had the cables.... to me it made no difference in sound quality with those extra meters to my 10 meter run, well that I could hear anyway. My systems sounds detailed, it has a full wide/deep sound stage, smooth,fast tight bass etc, it's all there even with my nothing special 10 meter run of cat6a cable. 

 

I always keep an open mind about trying things, we all love our music and listening to it as best as we possibly can from our own systems, but it would be an expensive experiment for me to buy one...  If someone had a 10 meter length of a high quality audio Ethernet cable I could try for a day, I will be willing to give it an audition, and of course can provide wine & nibbles for their time and kind gesture on the day.

 

Some quote from Renolabs:

Quote
With my experience network cable make lot of difference in sound. and the shorter cable the better quality.
The longer cable (over 3m) can make sound loose lot of engery and dynamic. so you will get more benefit to place switch near by your system.

 

I am using Google mesh router to wirelessly extended to my music room, then connect to Renolabs switch and streamer via ethernet cables. 

 

Edited by TDX
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3 minutes ago, notchasingrainbow said:

What i’d suggest is to use optical for those longer runs plus it gives an isolation to the cable router. Dont use a cheap dlink (and such) but a cisco 2960 or similar switch, or an optical module from sonore. And then use the shorter better ethernet in shorter runs. 

I thought the same thing when  I read the post from @Bass13.  I have 20 mt Fibre connection in my setup.  I am not convinced that Fibre has the best outcome.  It is possible that ethernet copper is better.  There are a number matters to consider with Fibre before you jump in the deep end.  Probably it should be the subject of a separate thread.  I am still learning.  My understanding is Emile from Taiko Audio at this time is recommending using unshielded CAT5e with his super expensive Taiko server.  

He is using 100mt.  I do not know what is best.

John

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28 minutes ago, Assisi said:

Hi Tony,

Contact John.  The phone number is on the website.  I cannot comment on the Ebay product.  John's cables work.  I am seeing John tomorrow I will mention your interest.

 

John

Will do, thanks.

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In the article, if you side by side images which are supposed to be the same images....they are not the same images.

 

Eg. Figure 8 left and Figure 11 left.... these are supposed to be the same image? (yes? - or have I made a mistake?).   They are not the same image.

 

Similarly.... Figure 14 left and figure 17 left .... they are supposed to be the same image? (correct?) .... they are not.

Edited by davewantsmoore
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4 hours ago, Assisi said:

I thought the same thing when  I read the post from @Bass13.  I have 20 mt Fibre connection in my setup.  I am not convinced that Fibre has the best outcome.  It is possible that ethernet copper is better.  There are a number matters to consider with Fibre before you jump in the deep end.  Probably it should be the subject of a separate thread.  I am still learning.  My understanding is Emile from Taiko Audio at this time is recommending using unshielded CAT5e with his super expensive Taiko server.  

He is using 100mt.  I do not know what is best.

John

I agree with copper sounding better, the convertor's quality differs, one needs to use a good one from cisco or similar or the sonore optical module or the etherregen to get good audio quality, and ends up with copper ethernet downstream.

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16 minutes ago, notchasingrainbow said:

I agree with copper sounding better, the convertor's quality differs, one needs to use a good one from cisco or similar or the sonore optical module or the etherregen to get good audio quality, and ends up with copper ethernet downstream.

I have a Sonore optical module at the NBN Router end.  At the other end is a Renolabs Switch that includes a Startech FMC.  Both the Module and the Startech FMC have SFP transceivers.  I have tried other SFPs. 

The Ethernet from the Startech in the Renolabs goes straight into a Waversa Router, that then goes to back to the Renolabs Ethernet switch side that then goes to the Paul Pang Quad and on it goes.  For me the Waversa Router seems to provide the best benefit as the  initial start of the Ethernet copper chain.  Both the Waversa Roon Core 2 and the Naim Uniti Core are also connected the the Waversa Router.

John

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3 hours ago, Assisi said:

I have a Sonore optical module at the NBN Router end.  At the other end is a Renolabs Switch that includes a Startech FMC.  Both the Module and the Startech FMC have SFP transceivers.  I have tried other SFPs. 

 

The Ethernet from the Startech in the Renolabs goes straight into a Waversa Router, that then goes to back to the Renolabs Ethernet switch side that then goes to the Paul Pang Quad and on it goes.  For me the Waversa Router seems to provide the best benefit as the  initial start of the Ethernet copper chain.  Both the Waversa Roon Core 2 and the Naim Uniti Core are also connected the the Waversa Router.

John

 

I think we need a network map John… this is no longer a figurative rabbit hole, it’s a network labyrinth!

 

 

 

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I agree it is a bit complicated.  I will try and prepare a map and explain the reasons.  I added another part today that seems to have a beneficial impact after the first hour. Work in progress.

John

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10 hours ago, Assisi said:

Probably it should be the subject of a separate thread.

There is ...

My experimenting with fibre taught me to put the FMC in my hifi system so it gets benefit of power conditioner, and high quality LPS and power cables.  So I presently have ...

 

nbn box > 10-15m Cat 5e > EtherRegen > 3m fibre > router with SFP ... so on.

 

I could swap ER with Sonore OM, when I get one.

 

Fibre can be very cost effective in terms of SQ, especially over long lengths way upstream from audio endpoint. It provides a degree of isolation and doesn't collect noise enroute.  But SFPs selection may impact SQ, hence why I have it well upstream.

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23 hours ago, dbastin said:

Um, what article?

This one.

Sorry... I didn't realise the post was so old

On 10/15/2020 at 9:49 AM, frednork said:

an interesting review here https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/190575/etherregen-audiophile-ethernet-switch-video-and-audio-review

 

shows ethernet cable differences, literally darker background

s2u7u8xkcxh4.jpg
Figure 17. Pixel level pictures, side by side. Left to right: Amazon Cable Matters Cat6a, Blue Jeans Certified Cat6a, AudioQuest Cinnamon Cat7, AudioQuest Vodka Cat7, Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy CryoSilver Cat8+.

 

 

 

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On 7/7/2021 at 12:50 PM, davewantsmoore said:

In the article, if you side by side images which are supposed to be the same images....they are not the same images.

 

Eg. Figure 8 left and Figure 11 left.... these are supposed to be the same image? (yes? - or have I made a mistake?).   They are not the same image.

 

Similarly.... Figure 14 left and figure 17 left .... they are supposed to be the same image? (correct?) .... they are not.

 

There are differences that suggest the playback wasn't paused on the same frame.  That was not helpful.

 

To my mind the part in the following quote in bold [my emphasis] was critical for the video reproduction:

 

"The Oppo player is connected to the OLED TV via an AudioQuest Cinnamon HDMI cable. The Oppo’s stock internal switch mode power supply was replaced with an upgrade Oppomod linear power supply. The home theater system is served by two dedicated 20 amp AC circuits. All electronics are fed ultra pure AC power by a PS Audio P5 AC regenerator and a PS Audio P10 AC regenerator."

 

I cannot understand why the Oppo player would output different image quality unless it was fed different data. But the data was simply from a local media server via a local network.  If the server sent corrupt data, or the data was corrupted in transit, either way something was seriously wrong. 

 

I make no comment on the audio, the main topic of this thread.  I can say though that the reported video results are most unusual.

Edited by MLXXX
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