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Who is Next ? -Dying businesses


Tweaky

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We all know of the loss of HiFi shops.

 

But I went into the Lincraft store in the Sydney CBD and found it was closing, not only that, after a GOOGLE search, I found several other Lincraft stores have already, or in the process of closing in NSW.

 

I know the economy is bad, and people haven't had a pay rise in ages, but one would have thought that a store like Lincraft, who sell materials for clothing / sewing machines/buttons etc and the usual stuff that is sold along with it, would have been going strong.....with a 'supposedly'  growing 'Repair not Replace' group to combat a throw away society .

 

Something is seriously amiss here, it's not business, it a train of thought that has lead to a way of life where we accept the loss of places that supply materials for the DIY'er.

 

What next ? JAYCAR ?

JAYCAR are OK, but nothing like the original Dick Smiths, where you could go in and buy individual transistors/caps etc, and had a HUGE catalogue to reflect that choice.

 

I know I'm getting old, but if there is NO place that sells this stuff locally, then we are doomed because the materials needed to experiment are not readily available.

 

This goes for suppliers of Food / Clothing / Electronics / Art etc; insert supplier that is no longer available.

 

I was reading Thomas Keneally's article in the Guardian the other day, on how we have all become consumers and clients......He has a point.....it didn't really hit home till today when I stumbled across the Lincraft closures.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/10/thomas-keneallys-2020s-vision-we-must-abandon-the-language-of-the-market-to-reclaim-our-humanity

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2 hours ago, Tweaky said:

I know the economy is bad, and people haven't had a pay rise in ages, but one would have thought that a store like Lincraft, who sell materials for clothing / sewing machines/buttons etc and the usual stuff that is sold along with it, would have been going strong.....with a 'supposedly'  growing 'Repair not Replace' group to combat a throw away society .

 

The internet and online economy will slowly claim everything bricks & mortar, at scale.

 

It's not 'if?'

It's simply 'when?', and how fast can those businesses transition to an online model before they are consumed.

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Basically any business where you can wait for on line to deliver rather than pick it up from the shop.

 

For example - Meguiar's Supreme Shine Detailing Cloths - 2 Pack sells for around $28 in Supercheap auto and Autobarn.

 

A 3 pack sells on Amazon au and shipped from Amazon USA for $11 for a 3 pack!!    today they are $10.

 

WTF, how can there be an over 400% markup on these?

Edited by metal beat
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30 minutes ago, metal beat said:

WTF, how can there be an over 400% markup on these?

I think the question there is "Why/How a multinational is allowed to dump product/cop a loss (in the short term) just to get the absolute share of the market (and royally efff everyone in the long run)"

 

3 hours ago, Tweaky said:

I was reading Thomas Keneally's article in the Guardian the other day, on how we have all become consumers and clients......He has a point.....it didn't really hit home till today when I stumbled across the Lincraft closures.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/10/thomas-keneallys-2020s-vision-we-must-abandon-the-language-of-the-market-to-reclaim-our-humanity

Inspiring and spot on from Mr Keneally

Edited by zippi
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5 minutes ago, zippi said:

I think the question there is "Why/How a multinational is allowed to dump product/cop a loss (in the short term) just to get the absolute share of the market (and royally efff everyone in the long run)"

 

 

Do you actually do any research before opening your mouth?

 

Brick and mortar shop Wallmart in the USA - Price is US $6.    see link below.   

 

How is Amazon dumping stock at a loss?.    Please explain.

 

Australian consumers are being ripped off by local brick n mortar shops in this instance - plain and simple.

 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Meguiar-s-X2020-Supreme-Shine-Microfiber-Towels-Pack-of-3/19258535?adid=22222222254418684945&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=b&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=291938340609&wl4=dsa-504748227745&wl5=9071651&wl6=&wl7=2840&wl8=&veh=sem&gclid=CjwKCAiA4Y7yBRB8EiwADV1hadjIjQjWQpMYcFxtK6AshFA79O_Tk3GccjVCvC7HmCu8tZuN0vHdwBoCsTMQAvD_BwE

 

 

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4 hours ago, Tweaky said:

We all know of the loss of HiFi shops.

Not sure about this to be honest. The decent hifi shops... ones I frequent are all still around.

 

shops will be exist no doubt where make sense. 

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27 minutes ago, metal beat said:

.

 

Australian consumers are being ripped off by local brick n mortar shops in this instance - plain and simple.

 

 

Maybe so,  however, the running cost of a business can really eat into the profits for bricks and mortar... you need to move volumes to make things happen and to get your head above water.  It really works against you in this lucky country of ours and we really haven’t got the population to sustain it like Walmart in America..

 

taxes 

the high costs of utilities such as electricity and water 

wages 

rent is a big killer 

 

Even if you have a online business some of these costs still exits and are on going..

 

Some Farmers have it tough, the water that flows is sometimes already sold off and they are not allowed to tap into it!  

 

35 minutes ago, betty boop said:

Not sure about this to be honest. The decent hifi shops... ones I frequent are all still around.

 

shops will be exist no doubt where make sense. 

Alex Encel sold that shop ( property )  on Bridge Rd because he  had an offer he couldn’t refuse....  He makes more on just importing/ distribution so why getting into retailing where the wages, rent etc are eating into your profits.

 

 

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Guest jakeyb77

I buy pretty much everything online. 
1. I don’t like going to shops. Staff are often rude, indifferent, untrained or many other words to the same effect. 
I obviously don’t mean every staff member but if I had of worked like some millennials do then I’d have been fired with a kick up the backside. 
2. I can peruse online at my pace and time. 
3. Unfortunately they are often cheaper Overseas to the point that my wish to purchase local fades. I’d be all for a general import tax to incentivise local manufacturing and that money to be used solely to subsidise local industry and job growth. 
4. Part of it is it’s also easier for an anxiety condition. 
5. Traffic and Parking in Melbourne is a PITA

6. Go to shop - no stock- we’ll order it for you. Pass. Order online, pick up from parcel locker. 24 hrs a day no hassle. 

 

But also the world is changing. Even Costco went online for delivery today. 
Students going to uni now are often starting courses for jobs that will be redundant by the time they finish. 
Technology will force change and retail spaces will not be as they were. 

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I think Bricks & Mortar shops are being ripped off.

Long gone are the days when a business could just rent a premises, trade and only have to pay for use utilities to make a profit .

 

Now days any business has to pay a percent of turnover, as well as rent, and the cost of utilities....WTF!

 

Macquarie Bank started this trend with their properties many years ago, that business model has been copied and taken to a level where it is no longer worth the effort of even trying to run a retail outlet.

If you trace it back, you'll probably  find your super fund has a vested interest in such 'Retail properties' , which is perpetuating the problem.

 

It's not the position of the shops, nor the items they sell, or for that matter the patronage of any shops clientele that has dwindled, it's the greed of the rent / profit taking of the landlords that is killing of retail outlets.

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Guest jakeyb77

@Addicted to music 

also 

Insurances up the wazoo 

Security 

Theft

 

But also they can be indicators that the business model is becoming outdated. 
If your business can transition to online only then it has to be better right? 
Studies show that careers as we knew them are becoming outdated and people will have far more jobs in their lifetimes than ever before. 

Got to adapt to stay afloat. 

 

 

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Well if that is the case, kiss Restaurants goodbye.

Why eat out when you can order Uber eats right ?

 

Well if you think anybody except Uber eats is making any money out of that you are crazy.

 

Any restaurant that allows Uber eats or any other 3rd party to order food from them, then have it delivered, is a restaurant that is surely about to close....unless it's a 'Invisible restaurant' that is only a kitchen that Uber eats people order from, not a 'Actual' restaurant that has seating for customers.

 

Uber eats or any other delivery service is the kiss of death for a restaurant, more so than having George  Calombaris at your mast head......if you can't see it, more fool you.

That goes for ANY business that detracts people from actually visiting your business premises....your already paying rent for the property ...DUH!

 

Same thing goes for Hotels with TRIVAGO and APP's of their ilk, they want a percentage of your turnover.

If you don't advertise with them you are screwed if a hotel in your area does, as most people will only see that advertised hotel.

If you can offer the same package for less, the TRIVAGO customer will never know, because the base price would have to have been put up because of the percentage TRIVAGO takes out of each business.

 

The INTERNET 'PLAYERS' have totally F&*($D businesses.....they are the only ones making money.

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Guest jakeyb77
1 minute ago, Tweaky said:

Well if that is the case, kiss Restaurants goodbye.

Why eat out when you can order Uber eats right ?

 

Well if you think anybody except Uber eats is making any money out of that you are crazy.

 

Any restaurant that allows Uber eats or any other 3rd party to order food from them, then have it delivered, is a restaurant that is surely about to close....unless it's a 'Invisible restaurant' that is only a kitchen that Uber eats people order from, not a 'Actual' restaurant that has seating for customers.

 

Uber eats or any other delivery service is the kiss of death for a restaurant, more so than having George  Calombaris at your mast head......if you can't see it, more fool you.

That goes for ANY business that detracts people from actually visiting your business premises....your already paying rent for the property ...DUH!

 

Same thing goes for Hotels with TRIVAGO and APP's of their ilk, they want a percentage of your turnover.

If you don't advertise with them you are screwed if a hotel in your area does, as most people will only see that advertised hotel.

If you can offer the same package for less, the TRIVAGO customer will never know, because the base price would have to have been put up because of the percentage TRIVAGO takes out of each business.

 

The INTERNET 'PLAYERS' have totally F&*($D businesses.....they are the only ones making money.

I worked I Hospitality and other business long enough to know the effect. Uber is taking a huge cut and yes restaurants are only using it because if they don’t they don’t get a look in. It sucks. I agree with your whole comment. 
BUT, In the real word these apps exist and they are multiplying. So other than cracking the ? in their rented spaces what are retailers to do? 
 

It’s possible to agree with you wholeheartedly but also to see that the world is being driven another way by people using their thumbs rather than their feet.... 

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Guest jakeyb77

@Tweaky have a watch of Ronny Chiengs newest Netflix special and you’ll get a laugh for the first 15 mins. 
He’s not my favourite comedian but it’s on topic for this thread 

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Guest jakeyb77
2 hours ago, LogicprObe said:

 

Lincraft just opened a new store in Warrawong.

See, no need to worry. We can all get back to our knitting. 

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9 hours ago, metal beat said:

Australian consumers are being ripped off by local brick n mortar shops in this instance - plain and simple.

Don't get me started on how little you know about the subject. Businesses are dying at an alarming rate yet you still think they are ripping you off. Do some research before making such comments.

 

Other huge expenses the public don't think of is work cover insurance, land tax if the property you rent is non retail, massive store fit out costs in the realm of $200k every 4 years if you rent a space in 1 of the big shopping centres. It goes on and on but it all revolves around the massively overpriced property market in Oz, along with highest wages in the world.

Edited by blybo
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9 hours ago, Tweaky said:

 

Now days any business has to pay a percent of turnover, as well as rent, and the cost of utilities....WTF!

 

 

I have heard some shopping centers even install cameras looking at your till to ensure your not fudging any numbers for their cut.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, lusk said:

I have heard some shopping centers even install cameras looking at your till to ensure your not fudging any numbers for their cut.

 

 

Wouldn't surprise me as so many businesses in food courts were cash only up until a year or 2 ago. I can get my eftpos machines replaced within 3-4 hours yet some of them had "faulty" eftpos machines for months.

 

Walk around any major shopping centre these days and count how many independent retailers there are selling a product rather than a service/food. Probably 1-2 only and also probably only seeing out their lease

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12 hours ago, candyflip said:

The internet and online economy will slowly claim everything bricks & mortar, at scale.

 

It's not 'if?'

It's simply 'when?', and how fast can those businesses transition to an online model before they are consumed.

I'll take this a step further. Most purchasing will be done directly from an overseas online distributor. If you look at Australian online prices they are almost always on par with retail prices. They are only doing it to lower costs and increase profits to stay afloat, not because they can offer massively lower prices.

 

Our population is only around 7-8% of the US but costs of doing business are the highest in the world. Just look at Amazon Au compared to Amazon US and how many on this site think the Au store is a rip off :logik:, even though they are escaping local taxes. Businesses here can't significantly reduce costs so how do we compete? Service? Unfortunately only a fraction of the population consider this to be of value in itself.

Edited by blybo
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11 hours ago, metal beat said:

Do you actually do any research before opening your mouth?

Do you actually care about anything else except your own short term gain?

 

When Amazon decimates Aus retail and remains an only big player (more or less) they will ever so sweetly exclude entire Aus population from the access to the heavily subsidised/skewed US market (Amazon US) and you'll be welcome to the prices/items available on Amazon AU. Of course you'll VPN yourself into the US geo-zone - so no dramas at all, but check out at that time what astronomical "shipping" rates await. Even in the last 3-6 months US shipping rates have grown like they've taken freaking steroids.

 

One cannot use eyes only when doing the research you're apparently so good at, but one needs to engage the brain too.  2 plus 2 equals 5 is an philosophical illustration of reality. These days I would be more inclined to say 7 or 9.

 

And if you cannot see the totality of the situation due to a few price tags - as in "cannot see the forest for the trees" - despite having access to virtually anything you like via the interwebs - I will not waste my time trying to enlighten you.

 

:thumb:

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My partner is pretty handy with sewing and knitting. As a result I've spent quite a lot of time in fabric stores over the years. When we travel she goes to fabric shops, I go to record stores. It's a nice exchange. Anyway, I told her stereonerds were mourning the closure of Lincraft. 'Well, they always sucked', she said. And it's true. They always seemed like a walking zombie from the 80s/90s. A bit of everything for everyone, but not much that's really nice and indifferent service. So it's a bit sad to see them go, but not entirely surprising. And hopefully there's still a glimmer of hope for bricks and mortar stores that know what they are doing, who they are doing it for and do it well. 

 

That said it's a tough market. High overheads and a customer base set on the lowest price. It won't just be suck worthy stores that go under. And that sucks. 

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5 hours ago, blybo said:

Don't get me started on how little you know about the subject. Businesses are dying at an alarming rate yet you still think they are ripping you off. Do some research before making such comments.

 

Other huge expenses the public don't think of is work cover insurance, land tax if the property you rent is non retail, massive store fit out costs in the realm of $200k every 4 years if you rent a space in 1 of the big shopping centres. It goes on and on but it all revolves around the massively overpriced property market in Oz, along with highest wages in the world.

 

2 hours ago, zippi said:

Do you actually care about anything else except your own short term gain?

 

When Amazon decimates Aus retail and remains an only big player (more or less) they will ever so sweetly exclude entire Aus population from the access to the heavily subsidised/skewed US market (Amazon US) and you'll be welcome to the prices/items available on Amazon AU. Of course you'll VPN yourself into the US geo-zone - so no dramas at all, but check out at that time what astronomical "shipping" rates await. Even in the last 3-6 months US shipping rates have grown like they've taken freaking steroids.

 

One cannot use eyes only when doing the research you're apparently so good at, but one needs to engage the brain too.  2 plus 2 equals 5 is an philosophical illustration of reality. These days I would be more inclined to say 7 or 9.

 

And if you cannot see the totality of the situation due to a few price tags - as in "cannot see the forest for the trees" - despite having access to virtually anything you like via the interwebs - I will not waste my time trying to enlighten you.

 

:thumb:

 

I gave one example of an over 400% increase in price compared to online and brick n mortar prices in the USA - for a made in China product that Meguiars or the distributor could sea freight direct from China making the included freight cost negligible.

 

For this one example, it is a complete rip off that both of you cannot explain except that I need to do more research or are just interested in short term gain.       Gimme a break.

 

Personally I prefer to shop locally at brick n mortar, but not to an over 400% subsidisation.

 

You know for yourself that some industries can be reasonably close on parity pricing ex GST and most people are happy paying a smaller premium.

 

 

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2 hours ago, zippi said:

Do you actually care about anything else except your own short term gain?

Most do not, particularly younger generations. I sell a brand of ladies footwear that is aspirational for the 30-50yo demographic. It is also available online directly from the brand at the same prices we sell at. You would not believe how rude these customers can be and are often only using our fitting expertise so they can buy online. Little do they know every model fits differently so they are still taking a chance.

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Guest jakeyb77
8 minutes ago, blybo said:

Most do not, particularly younger generations. I sell a brand of ladies footwear that is aspirational for the 30-50yo demographic. It is also available online directly from the brand at the same prices we sell at. You would not believe how rude these customers can be and are often only using our fitting expertise so they can buy online. Little do they know every model fits differently so they are still taking a chance.

A friend of our family has Red Wing boots and my Dad used to help out at the shop in Richmond when he was semi retired. People used to always come in and try to do the same thing. They’d come in and try the boots on to buy online. After a while my Dad, being much the same as me, started hiding the boxes out the back and would tell them the boots they tried on were one size smaller than what they tried. ???

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