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Turntable Do's and Dont's & Tips


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Last weekend I saw the Rega turntables in a Hi Fi showroom and they mentioned to me that Rega's (in particular) do not like to be turned on and off all the time and when you have a playing session to leave the turntable running even if it is for a whole weekend (turn on Saturday morning and then off again Sunday night) so to turn it off only when you are totally done playing the vinyl.

 

The other thing that really surprised me is they said to leave the table spinning when flipping a record.

 

Currently with my turntable I press stop to get the the turntable to stop spinning then turn the record over, press play, cue then record then play that side, I do this every time I flip a record (as well as mute the amp when dropping the needle down on the record).

 I would have thought that flipping a record on a spinning turntable may scratch or scuff the record underneath with it moving?

 

It got me wondering if the Rega shop was on to something or not, maybe turning on and off puts more strain on the start/stop button or turntable? 

Just wondering what others do and what mistakes you may have made a newbie.

 

One of my mistakes has been with the carbon brush - I didn't realise that the "cover" is to dust the bristles off - I thought that was just there to protect the bristles from getting bent, so at first I was dusting the bristles off with my fingertips. It wasn't until I saw a You Tube video did I realise what the top part was for to brush against the bristles so your hands do not touch it. Nothing in or on the box indicated otherwise.

 

 

 

 

Edited by April Snow
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I play records every day, so should I never turn it off? I'd be concerned about the bearings wearing out unnecessarily.

 

But most times I do change sides with the platter spinning, as it just saves times/I can't be arsed stopping it and then waiting for the high mass platter to get back up to speed. Certainly doesn't scratch or scuff the record.

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Hi April

 

You have a AT direct drive table?

 

With my two DD tables I switch off and on when changing records.  The dd tables are designed for that. Off, then back on and to correct speed in less than a second.

 

  No belt drive can start and Stop that quickly.   With my belt drive table, I do the same as the Rega and leave it on all the time when I am spinning vinyl.

 

   Why do I do that?  Because it's a pita waiting 10 seconds or more for the belt drive to get to correct speed.     You do have to quickly lift the record off the table thou. 

 

  I much prefer my DD's for normal playing as up to speed on one second is very cool. 

Edited by metal beat
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1 minute ago, metal beat said:

Hi April

 

You have a AT direct drive table?

 

With my two DD tables I switch off and on.  The dd tables are designed for that. Off, then back on and to correct speed in less than a second.

 

  No belt drive can start and Stop that quickly.   With my belt drive table, I do the same as the Rega and leave it on all the time when I am spinning vinyl.

 

   Why do I do that?  Because it's a pita waiting 10 seconds or more for the belt drive to get to correct speed.     You do have to quickly lift the record off the table thou,  as you may scuff it. 

 

  I much prefer my DD's for normal playing as up to speed on one second is very cool. 

Ohhhhhhh yes mine is a Direct Drive (ATLP120) ............soon to be upgraded...................and that will also be a Direct Drive - but I totally understand now why Rega Dealer said that, I did not know that about belt drives - they take longer - thank you for explaining it !!

THAT makes total sense.

 

I just have been obsessing a little since the weekend that maybe I was harming my TT by not doing as they said and thought I best find out these things before the new toy arrives "in da house" ?

 

So I am to conclude I am in fact doing it right, to turn off / flip/ then turn on again with my DD - see I learnt something else new today ?

 

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My DD stop themselves at the end of each side but they are still turned on. I turn everything on at the start of a session and off when I'm done! Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

Why the hell would I want to leave stuff turned on the whole time? If their stupid thing can't cope with having the On button used a few times they need a better design.

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59 minutes ago, eman said:

My DD stop themselves at the end of each side but they are still turned on. I turn everything on at the start of a session and off when I'm done! Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

Why the hell would I want to leave stuff turned on the whole time? If their stupid thing can't cope with having the On button used a few times they need a better design.

Mine doesn't stop once a side is finished - the table still rotates - there is of course the power on and off on the plinth but also the start and stop button - and that is what I use (start/stop) when flipping a record, I don't turn the actual machine on and off of course, just the start and stop - figured that was what it was for.

But I was still surprised Rega said if you plan to play music on the weekend turn it on Saturday morning and then off Sunday night - I thought "why wouldn't you just turn it off when having a long break?" Like if you are going to watch a movie or go out - it seemed pretty odd to me to have a TT sitting there spinning doing nothing for hours in between? Even when you are asleep.

That actually all put me off the Regas to be honest.....................it was not the best sales pitch.

I am one of those people that unplugs their microwave as I can go weeks without using it. 

Having a TT sitting there spinning as I am watching a movie would totally annoy me.

But they said that is what they do..................................(wonder if this explains the common complaint of static on the felt mats? that constantly spinning?)

 

Another thing I thought odd too - whilst at it  - I downloaded the Rega UK RP6 Manual when researching Turntables and what is says about recording cleaning and playing with the lid on (and yet I thought it was best to play with them off?) and I had a little chuckle about the cleaning and not worrying about brushes etc - (my Spin Clean and Carbon Brush are getting nervous thinking they might get evicted) hehehehhee 

 

Not bagging out Rega's by the way - they are lovely, it is just the manual is opposite to what I have learnt so far and been told (particulary about cleaning etc) ?

 

From the manual:

 

CARE OF YOUR TURNTABLE

 

Keeping the lid closed while playing records will prevent dust falling on to the record surface and should make cleaning unnecessary. Depending on the room environment and ambient temperature, playing with the lid open may offer sonic improvements. You can experiment to optimise the performance best suited to your room.

 

Do not use any record cleaner that works while the record is playing or any cleaners that use water or solvents. If you keep your records stored in their sleeves, avoid touching the playing surfaces and keep all water and fluids away, cleaning should not be necessary. Do not worry about visible dust on the record surface, this is brushed aside by the stylus during play. Dust collected on the stylus can be easily blown away. In general, record cleaning is overdone and one should not believe all the claims made by record cleaner manufacturers.

It is recommended to leave the turntable running during a record playing session. Switch on before the session and only switch off after you have finished.

Edited by April Snow
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I always found it easier to leave Rega's on. There is no depreciation in any of the components. Regas are very reliable. The only thing I found with them was the spindle pulley coming lose over years. My Sota uses a vacuum and clamp. Hence I have to stop it every time to change a record.

 

 

Edited by Wimbo
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8 hours ago, April Snow said:

Do not use any record cleaner that works while the record is playing or any cleaners that use water or solvents. If you keep your records stored in their sleeves, avoid touching the playing surfaces and keep all water and fluids away, cleaning should not be necessary. Do not worry about visible dust on the record surface, this is brushed aside by the stylus during play. Dust collected on the stylus can be easily blown away. In general, record cleaning is overdone and one should not believe all the claims made by record cleaner manufacturers.

It is recommended to leave the turntable running during a record playing session. Switch on before the session and only switch off after you have finished.

This is Roy Gandy only. The CEO of Rega. Take it with a grain of salt☺️

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10 hours ago, April Snow said:

Last weekend I saw the Rega turntables in a Hi Fi showroom and they mentioned to me that Rega's (in particular) do not like to be turned on and off all the time and when you have a playing session to leave the turntable running even if it is for a whole weekend (turn on Saturday morning and then off again Sunday night) so to turn it off only when you are totally done playing the vinyl.

 

The other thing that really surprised me is they said to leave the table spinning when flipping a record.

 

Currently with my turntable I press stop to get the the turntable to stop spinning then turn the record over, press play, cue then record then play that side, I do this every time I flip a record (as well as mute the amp when dropping the needle down on the record).

 I would have thought that flipping a record on a spinning turntable may scratch or scuff the record underneath with it moving?

 

It got me wondering if the Rega shop was on to something or not, maybe turning on and off puts more strain on the start/stop button or turntable? 

Just wondering what others do and what mistakes you may have made a newbie.

 

One of my mistakes has been with the carbon brush - I didn't realise that the "cover" is to dust the bristles off - I thought that was just there to protect the bristles from getting bent, so at first I was dusting the bristles off with my fingertips. It wasn't until I saw a You Tube video did I realise what the top part was for to brush against the bristles so your hands do not touch it. Nothing in or on the box indicated otherwise.

 

As Wimbo said - the Rega ideas are those of Roy Gandy.  In the same vein, the one and only Ivor Tiefenbrun came up with some gems like "you don't need to clean the grooves - the stylus does that for you!"  :lol:

 

Unlike Shane, with my Linn-inspired TT (and the LP12 I had for 30-odd years before that) - I turn it off each time, to change the record.

 

Andy

 

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1 hour ago, Wimbo said:

This is Roy Gandy only. The CEO of Rega. Take it with a grain of salt☺️

It just made me laugh - "don't worry about the dust, the stylus will clean it off for you" - maybe Roy Gandy  likes the snap crackle pop sounds? hahahahahaha

I shall have to read up on him, he sounds like an interesting character ?

 

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54 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

As Wimbo said - the Rega ideas are those of Roy Gandy.  In the same vein, the one and only Ivor Tiefenbrun came up with some gems like "you don't need to clean the grooves - the stylus does that for you!"  :lol:

 

Unlike Shane, with my Linn-inspired TT (and the LP12 I had for 30-odd years before that) - I turn it off each time, to change the record.

 

Andy

 

OK cool, glad to know that turning it off is the right way to go - I shall continue to do so - thank you ?

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A belt-drive turntable's motor will have the most strain when starting to rotate the platter.  It is possible that Rega are trying to minimse this because they haven't installed a powerful enough motor, and don't want returns of burned-out motors.  The manual for my belt-drive suggests helping the platter revolve when starting the motor, which makes sense (esp. for the heavy platter).  Probably not required for the old broadcast idler's which have motors large enough to drive washing machines!

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16 hours ago, April Snow said:

Ohhhhhhh yes mine is a Direct Drive (ATLP120)

 

So I am to conclude I am in fact doing it right, to turn off / flip/ then turn on again with my DD - see I learnt something else new today ?

 

 

I leave my DD running between changes,  but that's a carry over from DJ'ing habits.  I find it easier to centre the record and find the shaft when the platter is spinning.   

 

 

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19 hours ago, April Snow said:

One of my mistakes has been with the carbon brush - I didn't realise that the "cover" is to dust the bristles off - I thought that was just there to protect the bristles from getting bent, so at first I was dusting the bristles off with my fingertips. It wasn't until I saw a You Tube video did I realise what the top part was for to brush against the bristles so your hands do not touch it. Nothing in or on the box indicated otherwise.

 

Obviously not your best day AS.....I worked that out the day I bought the brush.??

 

As for fingering it........ Noooooo! ??

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3 hours ago, audiofeline said:

A belt-drive turntable's motor will have the most strain when starting to rotate the platter.  It is possible that Rega are trying to minimse this because they haven't installed a powerful enough motor, and don't want returns of burned-out motors.  The manual for my belt-drive suggests helping the platter revolve when starting the motor, which makes sense (esp. for the heavy platter).  Probably not required for the old broadcast idler's which have motors large enough to drive washing machines!

This could be right for a lot of TT manufacturers but very rarely saw this problem with Regas. Taking a record off a Rega is slipping it off. Motor keeps rotating. Thats why Roy uses felt matts.

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My first TT was a belt drive with auto stop so no option but to have it Stop/Start. No trouble ever. I did give it a little help starting by a light push on the edge of the platter/record.  Hardly a big deal.

 

A lot of 'opinions' from the Rega camp. ( Leave it spinning all day and don't clean your records). No wonder it put you off @April Snow

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40 minutes ago, Wimbo said:

This could be right for a lot of TT manufacturers [not installing an adequately powerful motor] but very rarely saw this problem with Regas. Taking a record off a Rega is slipping it off. Motor keeps rotating. Thats why Roy uses felt matts.

Thanks for the clarification, I haven't had any experience with Rega's.  My belt-drive tt with the heavy platter came with a felt mat, and I would often change disks with the platter spinning.

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The Rega manual states to leave the TT running while you are playing records.

 

I bought an RP8 with Apheta 2 to replace my LP12 ( I had for 30 years) and it was the most disappointing purchase I ever made in the audio world, it was dead and lifeless, and never sounded as good as my digital. I sold the Rega and now have a DD Technics with MM EPC205 (Less than 1/2 the cost of the Rega) that absolutely blows the RP8 Apheta 2 into the weeds. I certainly would not touch another Rega product.

 

BTW the Technics is also probable a notch up form the LP12, IItok, Troika I had. But we all know how reliable audio memory is.

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13 hours ago, Warren Jones said:

The Rega manual states to leave the TT running while you are playing records.

 

I bought an RP8 with Apheta 2 to replace my LP12 ( I had for 30 years) and it was the most disappointing purchase I ever made in the audio world, it was dead and lifeless, and never sounded as good as my digital. I sold the Rega and now have a DD Technics with MM EPC205 (Less than 1/2 the cost of the Rega) that absolutely blows the RP8 Apheta 2 into the weeds. I certainly would not touch another Rega product.

 

BTW the Technics is also probable a notch up form the LP12, IItok, Troika I had. But we all know how reliable audio memory is.

Interesting. My experience of the RP8 was a lively dynamic turntable that made you want to sit and listen. That was with an Elys which I'm not a fan of.

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On 18/12/2019 at 6:22 PM, April Snow said:

Last weekend I saw the Rega turntables in a Hi Fi showroom and they mentioned to me that Rega's (in particular) do not like to be turned on and off all the time and when you have a playing session to leave the turntable running even if it is for a whole weekend (turn on Saturday morning and then off again Sunday night) so to turn it off only when you are totally done playing the vinyl.

 

The other thing that really surprised me is they said to leave the table spinning when flipping a record.

 

Currently with my turntable I press stop to get the the turntable to stop spinning then turn the record over, press play, cue then record then play that side, I do this every time I flip a record (as well as mute the amp when dropping the needle down on the record).

 I would have thought that flipping a record on a spinning turntable may scratch or scuff the record underneath with it moving?

 

It got me wondering if the Rega shop was on to something or not, maybe turning on and off puts more strain on the start/stop button or turntable? 

Just wondering what others do and what mistakes you may have made a newbie.

 

One of my mistakes has been with the carbon brush - I didn't realise that the "cover" is to dust the bristles off - I thought that was just there to protect the bristles from getting bent, so at first I was dusting the bristles off with my fingertips. It wasn't until I saw a You Tube video did I realise what the top part was for to brush against the bristles so your hands do not touch it. Nothing in or on the box indicated otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

extremely wrong to leave the platter turning.

 

any slight touch will "retard" subsequent sound in terms of reducing soundstaging size and causing "lag" in sense of timing and musicality. 

 

it is actually better to stop the platter each time before play a side.

 

the platter should be started again, only after the disk is placed over the platter (and record weight added, if applicable), and should never be "touched" at anytime during its rotation.

 

in many cases, with belt-drive turntables, it is better to leave the motor on/off switch permanently turned on, and to switch on the motor from the wall mains. This way, the soundstaging can fully blossom. turning on/off the motor at the table often leads to reduced soundstaging sizes. the sense of ease, the timing, musicality all suffer if using on/off switch at the table.

 

avoid using record brushes as much as possible

 

2 issues

 

first - even if carbon fibre materials are effective in attracting dust particles off the surfaces of vinyl records, the very act of rubbing the carbon fibre brushes over the surface can generate a form of static that can cause upper audio frequencies to get rolled off. clarity and harmonic extension suffer.

 

the rubbing action of the brush can cause the rotating platter to get momentarily "retarded" in terms of timing. soundstaging and musicality gets affected.

 

best thing is get a blower.

 

stop the platter, if for any reasons it comes into contact that may momentarily impede its flow.

 

Once the platter starts rotating, do not touch it.

 

 

 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, jeromelang said:

 

extremely wrong to leave the platter turning.

 

any slight touch will "retard" subsequent sound in terms of reducing soundstaging size and causing "lag" in sense of timing and musicality. 

 

it is actually better to stop the platter each time before play a side.

 

the platter should be started again, only after the disk is placed over the platter (and record weight added, if applicable), and should never be "touched" at anytime during its rotation.

 

in many cases, with belt-drive turntables, it is better to leave the motor on/off switch permanently turned on, and to switch on the motor from the wall mains. This way, the soundstaging can fully blossom. turning on/off the motor at the table often leads to reduced soundstaging sizes. the sense of ease, the timing, musicality all suffer if using on/off switch at the table.

 

avoid using record brushes as much as possible

 

2 issues

 

first - even if carbon fibre materials are effective in attracting dust particles off the surfaces of vinyl records, the very act of rubbing the carbon fibre brushes over the surface can generate a form of static that can cause upper audio frequencies to get rolled off. clarity and harmonic extension suffer.

 

the rubbing action of the brush can cause the rotating platter to get momentarily "retarded" in terms of timing. soundstaging and musicality gets affected.

 

best thing is get a blower.

 

stop the platter, if for any reasons it comes into contact that may momentarily impede its flow.

 

Once the platter starts rotating, do not touch it.

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting, I play a record right through on each side so I don't touch the record.

But also interesting what you say about the carbon brush, I only touch mine very lightly but have often wondered about what you have mentioned and it makes sense. I have always thought it would be better to blow off dust too - (after the Milty Zero Stat) but what sort of blower? One like you can buy for a camera lense? What do you suggest?

Edited by April Snow
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I do indeed have a camera lenses blower.

 

And I wet clean my records using both distilled water, and then tap water for final sound conditioning. 

 

Drying is contact-less, with a high speed spinner.

 

Tap water somehow allow the vinyl record to attract less dust from the air. And make records sound better too.

 

 

Edited by jeromelang
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57 minutes ago, jeromelang said:

I do indeed have a camera lenses blower.

 

And I wet clean my records using both distilled water, and then tap water for final sound conditioning. 

 

Drying is contact-less, with a high speed spinner.

 

Tap water somehow allow the vinyl record to attract less dust from the air. And make records sound better too.

 

 

Is this for real? 

 

I was thinking a gurney would blow the dust and dirt right out of those grooves  ? *joke*

 

Seriously? How would tap water help? What about the chemicals and water deposits?

What sort of spinner? 

 

I use distilled water and my spin clean and the cloths they supply (I find they are good and no lint) then finish off air drying on a rack then re-sleeve in Mofi Anti Stat..........after an hour or so. 

Shall think about getting one of those Vac cleaners next year maybe but for now this seems to be working.

 

The camera lense blower I have actually read about that a few times myself, but not the tap water - isnt that a no no?

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, April Snow said:

Is this for real? 

 

I was thinking a gurney would blow the dust and dirt right out of those grooves  ? *joke*

 

Seriously? How would tap water help? What about the chemicals and water deposits?

What sort of spinner? 

 

I use distilled water and my spin clean and the cloths they supply (I find they are good and no lint) then finish off air drying on a rack then re-sleeve in Mofi Anti Stat..........after an hour or so. 

Shall think about getting one of those Vac cleaners next year maybe but for now this seems to be working.

 

The camera lense blower I have actually read about that a few times myself, but not the tap water - isnt that a no no?

 

 

 

 

 

How many times have you bathed in tap water over the years? Shouldn't you be caked under layers of chemical deposits? And if you aren't, why is that so?

Edited by jeromelang
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8 hours ago, jeromelang said:

 

How many times have you bathed in tap water over the years? Shouldn't you be caked under layers of chemical deposits? And if you aren't, why is that so?

I am covered in cake from my taps. The chemical deposits on top give me a sound complexion.

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14 hours ago, jeromelang said:

 

How many times have you bathed in tap water over the years? Shouldn't you be caked under layers of chemical deposits? And if you aren't, why is that so?

Nonsense statement. You wash vigorously and dry yourself off vigorously with a towel. If you treated a record that way you would trash it. The use of tap water on records and on your skin has absolutely no relevance to one another.

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8 minutes ago, Hergest said:

Nonsense statement. You wash vigorously and dry yourself off vigorously with a towel. If you treated a record that way you would trash it. The use of tap water on records and on your skin has absolutely no relevance to one another.

Not to mention that living human skin is not the same as a record...

 

I don’t use turtle wax to glaze ham either...

Edited by furtherpale
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4 hours ago, furtherpale said:

Not to mention that living human skin is not the same as a record...

 

I don’t use turtle wax to glaze ham either...

And here I was thinking I may have a few wrinkles but turns out they might actually be grooves then !!!!!! ???

Think I might trade my moisturizer for Reviginizer then?

 

 

IMG_2915.JPG

Edited by April Snow
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The issue is moisture removal.

 

If puddles of tap water are left over surfaces and evaporated naturally, yes, of course, there will be deposit build up. 

 

But if moisture on vinyl surfaces are  immediately removed there will be no surface noise issues. None. Period. 

 

My turntable is probably the most sensitive to debris leftovers among all turntables in the whole world. I will be the first to raise a hand if using tap water increases surface noise. If I can say using tap water and immediately removing them from vinyl surfaces cause no discernible increment in surface noise (as heard from the elp player), then for all intent and purposes, needle playback systems will also hear no such issues either. 

 

Over the years I've tried different types of water, whether distilled, carbonated, oxygenated, alkalined, none has come closed to tap water in its revitalizing and neutralizing properties. Maybe it is it's ph characteristics. Maybe...., but I've tried heating and then cooling the tap water, and it makes records sound wholly different. Dead sound. Straight from the tap still sounds best. Boiling water removes oxygen? What else is removed?

 

I also have to add that with a spinner device, the record is dried without contact with any other materials. So the changes in sound is purely from using different water. The results are the same whether laser or needle playback is used. 

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4 hours ago, t_mike said:

Nope, laser is completely different. You're not even a part of the analogue community any more.

While I'd agree that a laser turntable is a different way of retrieving the information from the groove I think it's a bit unfair to say that it's not part of the analogue community as a laser turntable is still analogue.

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Wow I did not know Laser Record players even existed !!!

Interesting -

I had to do some googling - seems they are considered still to be analogue ....or reading analogue but remove the pops and clicks - but then wonder if you lose the warmth from that? Guess this is a whole different topic, but now I can see that maybe he can use his tap water as it likely has no effect on a Laser Record player because if it can remove a pop or click, it certainly would not be concerned over a water deposit as no actual stylus comes into contact?

 

But I think for the rest of us with that thing called a stylus doing the work - distilled water is still the way to go.

 

https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/56566/laser-turntable

 

 

Edited by April Snow
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Laser record players don't remove pops and ticks, if anything they amplify them so records have to be truly pristine. They are indeed analogue. Just because something uses a laser doesn't make it digital. It's what the laser reads that defines whether it's digital or analogue.

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It is unfortunate that the laser turntable technology was developed at the time when CDs became dominant. 

 

I've always considered the laser turntable to be one step beyond prototype - the first commercial versions were released, but horrendously expensive because of the r+d costs (remember the first CD players were very expensive).  Had CDs not taken over I would have expected that the laser turntable technology would have improved and costs slowly decreased, and they would have eventually become another standard and (at least relatively) affordable turntable design (ie, idler/belt/dd/laser).  I could also see how the development of digital technology may have played a part in the development, to the extent that the analogue laser signal could have been converted to a digital signal. 

 

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6 hours ago, Hergest said:

Laser record players don't remove pops and ticks, if anything they amplify them so records have to be truly pristine. They are indeed analogue. Just because something uses a laser doesn't make it digital. It's what the laser reads that defines whether it's digital or analogue.

Interesting as the PC Mag said it did remove those, but I guess they would not have taken off if in fact they amplified them !! So guess they were doomed from the start then especially with CD technology

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On 22/12/2019 at 12:16 AM, jeromelang said:

Over the years I've tried different types of water, whether distilled, carbonated, oxygenated, alkalined, none has come closed to tap water in its revitalizing and neutralizing properties. Maybe it is it's ph characteristics.

Its the Chlorine.:thumb:

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On 19/12/2019 at 12:05 PM, audiofeline said:

The manual for my belt-drive suggests helping the platter revolve when starting the motor, which makes sense (esp. for the heavy platter).

For my Rega I always give the platter a spin before engaging the motor, then leave it spinning until the listening session is finished.

 

With my Gyrodec which uses a clamp you have to switch off when changing sides.  Also the more powerful motor negates the need for a manual pre-spin

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