Does Ethernet Cable makes sound difference like an USB cable?

[TimZ]

Hi guys, I have recently upgraded to a digital streamer. I was using USB input for my old CAS setup and I can hear the difference between USB cables/USB purifiers.

 

Since streaming uses TCP protocol with error correction and data is not affected from jitter, I would like to ask that does ethernet cables make any sound difference just like USB cable? 

[TimZ]

And, do you benefit from using a Cat7/8 cable over Cat 6 cable?

[Ittaku]

Like USB cable discussions you will get varied opinions. My answer is no.

[Guest rmpfyf]

1 hour ago, Colourless- said:

Hi guys, I have recently upgraded to a digital streamer. I was using USB input for my old CAS setup and I can hear the difference between USB cables/USB purifiers.

 

Since streaming uses TCP protocol with error correction and data is not affected from jitter, I would like to ask that does ethernet cables make any sound difference just like USB cable? 

 

The data will get there on a 100Mbps connection, let alone gigabit or cables rated at 40Gb. There are a few cable vendors out claiming that this doesn't happen, I think they're telling porkie pies. 

 

There are other properties of Ethernet that can affect how your streamer works with indirect if audible effects; to what degree this changes anything depends much on your streamer, the cables involved, their installation etc. Different cable setups make a difference on mine. I'm rebuilding the DAC in a way that I hope alleviates this. 

 

My golden rule - assuming you can buffer a song to A/B with - if pulling the Ethernet cable does not give you an audible difference to having it connected, then Ethernet anything is not going to make a difference. My silver rule - there's no cable worth more than $50 seriously worth buying.

[aussievintage]

1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

Like USB cable discussions you will get varied opinions. My answer is no.

Actually I say yes, they do make the same sound difference, i.e. none!    

[Guest Muon N']

My approach if I'm undecided on something is to try it and see for yourself.

 

Me, I don't do USB or Ethernet so I'll stay away from giving advice to others.

[TimZ]

4 minutes ago, Muon N' said:

My approach if I'm undecided on something is to try it and see for yourself.

 

Me, I don't do USB or Ethernet so I'll stay away from giving advice to others.

Yeap that is a right way, maybe I should buy some cheap ones to try out.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Colourless-

[Guest Muon N']

3 minutes ago, Colourless- said:

Yeap that is a right way, maybe I should buy some cheap ones to try out.

Better if you can get some on loan, if possible, might be able to try ones that are in a higher price bracket that way without the outlay while deciding.

[Wimbo]

2 hours ago, rmpfyf said:

My silver rule - there's no cable worth more than $50 seriously worth buying

Proved it time and again (In the analogue domain) since the 80's that there is. My Golden rule is, If you can't here the difference, try another hobby.

In regards to Ethernet cables, no experience here, but I would expect some kind of packet loss might affect something.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Wimbo

[Guest]

No difference. If you think there's a difference, then your belief is based on faith, not reality.

 

You can be easily proven wrong on any reasonable measure, but who can argue with what people think they can hear. Anybody who even has a cursory understanding of how Ethernet works will laugh at the suggestion - unless of course one cable is faulty and the other is not.

 

If ethernet was that unreliable, you wouldn't be reading this exactly verbatim.

[Decky]

Both are two of the newest aspects of the audiophiliac religious cult following and practice. The commercial machine behind our disease will always support your belief and their need - for you to spend more money.  The "need" you feel is a hole that cannot be filled with physical things but only with intangible emotional content packed in music. Buy more music not more cables. 

[Ittaku]

5 hours ago, Wimbo said:

I would expect some kind of packet loss might affect something.

Data transfer is unbelievably reliable across ethernet cables. If there's any effect from changing ethernet cables, it is not from packet loss, it's going to be from shielding and grounding.

[Guest rmpfyf]

7 hours ago, Wimbo said:

Proved it time and again (In the analogue domain) since the 80's that there is. My Golden rule is, If you can't here the difference, try another hobby.

In regards to Ethernet cables, no experience here, but I would expect some kind of packet loss might affect something.

 

I've tested this a number of times. Packet loss is very, very hard to realise even on less than CAT5e. There's a ton of redundancy in the standard against this much. I'll happily mail anyone a CAT3 cable if they want to try.

 

Ethernet cables do make a difference under certain circumstances but it has nothing to do with packet loss. It's safe to assume the data gets there just fine - this much is easy to prove even on streaming.

 

Anyone looking at data integrity as a means to prove an Ethernet cable makes a difference is looking at the wrong thing.

 

Just as the Ethernet standard makes data loss a non-issue, anyone versed in operating system and machine hardware design can work out where the possibilities are. And, honestly, how to design around them (which not everyone does).

 

I'd stick to $50 simply because the solutions involved are commoditized. There's cables in the wild that far exceed any specification relevant to audiophile anything. Yes, there are thousand-dollar cables out there made of platinum whatever but they're missing the point.

 

2 hours ago, Ittaku said:

Data transfer is unbelievably reliable across ethernet cables. If there's any effect from changing ethernet cables, it is not from packet loss, it's going to be from shielding and grounding.

 

Warmer. Not everyrhing though, And everything is not the cable.

Edited December 13, 2019 by rmpfyf

[Guest rmpfyf]

8 hours ago, Colourless- said:

Yeap that is a right way, maybe I should buy some cheap ones to try out.

 

Pull the cable and try.

 

If your streamer supports it, that's free.

[aussievintage]

3 hours ago, Decky said:

Buy more music not more cables. 

Best advice !!

[frednork]

Rather than answer your question directly as clearly the SNA jury is out on this based on the above. I would suggest trying fibre modules (if you can borrow some all the better) where your network cables normally run. If you dont hear a difference than I wouldnt bother trying different ethernet cables. 

[mwhouston]

I’ll say no, cheap USB or Ethernet cable should all sound the same. 

[Soundfever]

In my experience different Ethernet cableS made no difference in my Node 2, PSA bridge ii and Auralic Aries streamers. 
 

I used a printer USB cable when I first got the Aries connecting it to the Gustard x20pro. It sounded very ordinary and muffled. I then purchased a $50 Wireworld violet cable for $40 and it made a huge different. Everything comes to life. Maybe the printer cable is not designed for audio or have a different bandwidth or properties. Maybe it’s my emotion justifying the $40 expense.  Saying that, I can’t justify spending more than that $50 on a USB cable. 

[TimZ]

40 minutes ago, Soundfever said:

In my experience different Ethernet cableS made no difference in my Node 2, PSA bridge ii and Auralic Aries streamers. 
 

I used a printer USB cable when I first got the Aries connecting it to the Gustard x20pro. It sounded very ordinary and muffled. I then purchased a $50 Wireworld violet cable for $40 and it made a huge different. Everything comes to life. Maybe the printer cable is not designed for audio or have a different bandwidth or properties. Maybe it’s my emotion justifying the $40 expense.  Saying that, I can’t justify spending more than that $50 on a USB cable. 

I think the reason causes the audible difference in USB is because there is a 5V power supply and Clock signal in USB transmission that varies the sound. I do hear difference in USB cables and purifiers as well 

[Ittaku]

26 minutes ago, Colourless- said:

I think the reason causes the audible difference in USB is because there is a 5V power supply and Clock signal in USB transmission that varies the sound. I do hear difference in USB cables and purifiers as well 

Be aware that most non-USB powered DACs don't have the 5V line actually connected at their end so that can't be the source of noise. That's not to discount your experiences, which may or may not be related to 5V. I use a printer USB cable myself.

[aussievintage]

1 hour ago, Soundfever said:

Maybe the printer cable is not designed for audio or have a different bandwidth or properties.

USB cables are designed to meet standards.  Devices using the cables, are designed to work fully (100% to spec) with those same standards.  There should never be a need to design special cables that exceed the spec.  There should be no benefit if you do.

[Guest rmpfyf]

Just now, aussievintage said:

USB cables are designed to meet standards.  Devices using the cables, are designed to work fully (100% to spec) with those same standards.  There should never be a need to design special cables that exceed the spec.  There should be no benefit if you do.

Not exactly. The standard ensures data gets there. How it gets there... There's room for improvement.

[aussievintage]

Just now, rmpfyf said:

Not exactly. The standard ensures data gets there. How it gets there... There's room for improvement.

 If the data gets there, intact and on time (no buffer underruns etc), any decently designed piece of equipment can perform it's job 100% to it's own spec.  In reality, it's very rare for this not to be the case.

[frednork]

For some reason this site is overrun online by very enthusiastic posters who deny the difference in just about anything.  I recently was on a thread where it was strongly argued that speaker cables make no significant difference and I was gobsmacked. Of course there are situations where spending money on speaker cables over the same money on another component would be a less wiser choice and the same applies here.

 

See here for some relevant discussion 

 

 

If everything else is sorted and the magnitude of cost of the tweak is a sensible relative to upgrading other components and you can hear a difference that makes it worth it then the return can be very cost effective.

 

Basically  I would not pay any attention to anyone who hasnt actually tried cable x in their system as it is just pure speculation. The many people who have tried and use more expensive ethernet cables wont post because it is a circular arguement which has no resolution and ends in vitriole and nastiness and a shut down thread. A lot of the the people who posted above also think usb cables make no difference for all the same reasons but for some reason havent posted that.

 

If you want to hear peoples impressions of digital based tweaks have a look on audiophile style. They have their own problems but it seems a bit less "constrained"  than here.

 

I note the OP is in Melbourne, send me a PM and I can lend you some stuff to try. These conversations are better offline.

[TimZ]

1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

Be aware that most non-USB powered DACs don't have the 5V line actually connected at their end so that can't be the source of noise. That's not to discount your experiences, which may or may not be related to 5V. I use a printer USB cable myself.

Not all DACs supports usb galvanic isolation, I used to use iDefender to break the 5v ground loop from my PC and supply it with iFi iPower, and the result turns out to be audible, the background is darker(probably improved Signal to noise ratio), and the details are sharper and vivid. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Colourless-