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Purifi 1ET400A new range of class D amp modules


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On 24/09/2019 at 9:30 AM, March Audio said:

 

The reality is that the HiFi landscape has changed.  30 years ago I had an FM tuner, CD player, tape deck and turntable.  Mulitple switchable inputs required.

 

Now all I have is a dac.  All music sourced through the computer (Roon).

 

I simply dont need a pre-amp.  The dac connects directly to the power amp and everything is controlled through Roon including the volume.

 

The other advantage is that it maximises sound quality.  A pre-amp can only add noise, distortion and colouration.  Of course there still is a market for pre-amps and I am thinking of releasing one next year.

 

Most DACs should have no issue directly driving a power amp.

 

 

I personally find a preamp adds some “body” to music versus a DAC direct approach.  This is, of course, very much system dependent.  I use the Makua preamp from MolaMola, so I’m fairly certain this “body” is not a result of distortion given how low distortion is in the Makua.

 

I also own the Kaluga monos which I am very impressed with.  When I bought the Kalugas the only other NC1200 option on the market was the Merrill Veritas.  Both were very similarly priced. I’m surprised to see the price of the March Audio NC1200 based amps undercutting the Kaluga and Veritas products significantly.  Is this a sign of reduced cost from Hypex? Or is there more to it?

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14 minutes ago, Stereophilus said:

I personally find a preamp adds some “body” to music versus a DAC direct approach.  This is, of course, very much system dependent.  I use the Makua preamp from MolaMola, so I’m fairly certain this “body” is not a result of distortion given how low distortion is in the Makua.

 

I also own the Kaluga monos which I am very impressed with.  When I bought the Kalugas the only other NC1200 option on the market was the Merrill Veritas.  Both were very similarly priced. I’m surprised to see the price of the March Audio NC1200 based amps undercutting the Kaluga and Veritas products significantly.  Is this a sign of reduced cost from Hypex? Or is there more to it?

As a point of reference what is the pricing. 

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2 hours ago, Stereophilus said:

For the Kalugas?  Currently $18k RRP for a pair of monos.  I paid less many moons ago.

 

I’m seeing $1395 per mono ($2790 a pair?) on the March Audio website currently.

 

 

That’s an incredible difference in price! One could hardly justify paying that much given current pricing. 

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2 hours ago, Stereophilus said:

For the Kalugas?  Currently $18k RRP for a pair of monos.  I paid less many moons ago.

 

I’m seeing $1395 per mono ($2790 a pair?) on the March Audio website currently.

 

 

 

Not much more, but that is USD so about $4.1K AUD for the MA's.

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6 hours ago, Stereophilus said:

I personally find a preamp adds some “body” to music versus a DAC direct approach.  This is, of course, very much system dependent.  I use the Makua preamp from MolaMola, so I’m fairly certain this “body” is not a result of distortion given how low distortion is in the Makua.

 

I also own the Kaluga monos which I am very impressed with.  When I bought the Kalugas the only other NC1200 option on the market was the Merrill Veritas.  Both were very similarly priced. I’m surprised to see the price of the March Audio NC1200 based amps undercutting the Kaluga and Veritas products significantly.  Is this a sign of reduced cost from Hypex? Or is there more to it?

 

A pre amp can only add further noise and distortion.  In the good ones this will be insignificant and they will be audibly transparent.  The Makua is in the territory of performance better than the abilities of available measurement equipment. 

 

In regards to your subjective comments, did you draw these conclusions from blind listening tests that were controlled (ie perfectly matched volume)? If not I'm afraid all bets are off. You will have been biased and conclusions may be misleading. 

 

There can be technical reasons for amp/input combinations to sound different (see earlier in the thread about the valve amp as an example), and of course a pre-amp can be deliberately made to have a "sound".  However there is no reason for a pre amp to be required to optomise or improve sound quality assuming input/output drive/load characteristics are within normal parameters. 

 

 The NC1200 module was only very recently made available to the wider community of manufacturers such as March audio.  It was previously reserved for a small number of select manufacturers.  I do not know details of previous pricing arrangements with those manufacturers it was available to. 

The Mola Mola power amps are a little different from the stock NC1200 module, a few component changes. It also uses their own input buffer design. However it would not be appropriate for me to make any comment on pricing/value from other manufacturers. 

 

The current pricing on my amps is still with an introductory discount. 

 

Edited by March Audio
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3 hours ago, March Audio said:

 

A pre amp can only add further noise and distortion.  In the good ones this will be insignificant and they will be audibly transparent.  The Makua is in the territory of performance better than the abilities of available measurement equipment. 

 

In regards to your subjective comments, did you draw these conclusions from blind listening tests that were controlled (ie perfectly matched volume)? If not I'm afraid all bets are off. You will have been biased and conclusions may be misleading. 

 

There can be technical reasons for amp/input combinations to sound different (see earlier in the thread about the valve amp as an example), and of course a pre-amp can be deliberately made to have a "sound".  However there is no reason for a pre amp to be required to optomise or improve sound quality assuming input/output drive/load characteristics are within normal parameters. 

 

 The NC1200 module was only very recently made available to the wider community of manufacturers such as March audio.  It was previously reserved for a small number of select manufacturers.  I do not know details of previous pricing arrangements with those manufacturers it was available to. 

The Mola Mola power amps are a little different from the stock NC1200 module, a few component changes. It also uses their own input buffer design. However it would not be appropriate for me to make any comment on pricing/value from other manufacturers. 

 

The current pricing on my amps is still with an introductory discount. 

 

I won’t pretend that there was any objective testing involved.  As I said, it was a personal preference.  Just my opinion, complete with bias.

 

I understand the argument for “no preamp”.   It would make sense to prefer no preamp.  We might leave it at that, as it’s a bit OT.

 

Opening up access to the modules is an interesting move by Hypex... perhaps related to what is happening at purifi?

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On 29/09/2019 at 8:01 PM, Rockford said:

 

Not much more, but that is USD so about $4.1K AUD for the MA's.

I tend to look at pricing in terms of comparison. 

 

Would I purchase a pair of these monoblocs for said price OR would I purchase say a hi caps ME 850 which gives me stability into 0.5 ohm loads, 70 amps etc for say $3.5k and drive any speaker thrown at it and sell it at that price all day long. 

 

For me the ME would win all the time. 

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11 hours ago, ghost4man said:

I tend to look at pricing in terms of comparison. 

 

Would I purchase a pair of these monoblocs for said price OR would I purchase say a hi caps ME 850 which gives me stability into 0.5 ohm loads, 70 amps etc for say $3.5k and drive any speaker thrown at it and sell it at that price all day long. 

 

For me the ME would win all the time. 

Not so quick,

it didn’t for me, you have to wait for someone to let them go,  then again I’ve never heard the ME in the house.   Had a ME 750 in the house but couldn’t  connect to the rig, had to do a SNA Mod here a favour,  pick it up and prep for transport to SYD  on the same day in less than an hr.  This is the only time I saw and held a ME in my hand!   So when the time came, Bill made an offer I couldn’t  refused!   The Magtech it was!    Brand new,  lifetime warranty but not transferable,   Cool!  Had one in the house and it blew everything away, but that was predictable,   The immediate impact was how effortless everything sounded,  the naturalness came out and gives a nice extra level of micro detail that was missing from the rest......sold!  

 

You really  need to hear them in a rig that you are familiar before making that decision.   Someone I know well had ML ESLs and runs Pass Labs...   Decided to get a Magtech because when he had his Pass Lab Aleph here there wasn’t much difference driving the 1.7,  however it didn’t last an hr before he decided it wasn’t for him,  the Pass Lab Aleph works better and sounded acceptable compared the Magtech  so he stuck with Pass Labs.   Specification and pricing is just a guide, ultimately decided after a real live listen, never purchased unheard!

Edited by Addicted to music
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7 hours ago, Stereophilus said:

Personally, I would listen to the amps in my system first, then determine value based on what I heard.

Best case scenario. 

 

Most common case scenario is research and reputation. 

 

I've heard ME amps with Maggie's. Having been to Bills store I've heard many different amps with Maggie's. 

 

A hi caps version is difficult to beat at that price range imo. 

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Some of you guys keep saying the same things in class D threads - seems to be going on for years!

 

If you dont think class D is for your maggies or other low impedance speakers move on. You allready believe magtech or ME is better, so live in peace with your choice. I dont understand why you guys keep repeating the same things??

 

No one can argue with your choice, in fact many will feel it has merit.

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36 minutes ago, AudioGeek said:

Some of you guys keep saying the same things in class D threads - seems to be going on for years!

 

If you dont think class D is for your maggies or other low impedance speakers move on. You allready believe magtech or ME is better, so live in peace with your choice. I dont understand why you guys keep repeating the same things??

 

No one can argue with your choice, in fact many will feel it has merit.

Class D (well Hypex or Purifi) has no problem at all with low impedance speakers. 

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5 hours ago, AudioGeek said:

Some of you guys keep saying the same things in class D threads - seems to be going on for years!

 

If you dont think class D is for your maggies or other low impedance speakers move on. You allready believe magtech or ME is better, so live in peace with your choice. I dont understand why you guys keep repeating the same things??

 

No one can argue with your choice, in fact many will feel it has merit.

Comparitvely speaking. 

 

Would I pay 21k for the Molas? 

 

No. Even if the Molas were better because I know enough of what the poetic descriptions that seems to have taken over equipment recommendations mean. 

 

To say that my comment is purely grounded in a rejection of Class D because it is simply Class D and therefore inferior is a misunderstanding. 

 

Molas vs ME 850? Value for money... ME wins for me. 

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On 24/09/2019 at 9:30 AM, March Audio said:

 

The reality is that the HiFi landscape has changed.  30 years ago I had an FM tuner, CD player, tape deck and turntable.  Mulitple switchable inputs required.

 

Now all I have is a dac.  All music sourced through the computer (Roon).

 

I simply dont need a pre-amp.  The dac connects directly to the power amp and everything is controlled through Roon including the volume.

 

The other advantage is that it maximises sound quality.  A pre-amp can only add noise, distortion and colouration.  Of course there still is a market for pre-amps and I am thinking of releasing one next year.

 

Most DACs should have no issue directly driving a power amp.

 

 

OK, I've put my money where my mouth is, as all the threads had piqued my curiousity and have ordered the smaller March Audio amp for my system to see how it fares.  At 125W it should be able to drive my speakers easily.  I will let people know my opinions (admittedly it is against a completely at the other end of the scale in terms of Alan's ethos - a Weston Acoustics valve amp) ?

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7 minutes ago, Rockford said:

 I will let people know my opinions (admittedly it is against a completely at the other end of the scale in terms of Alan's ethos - a Weston Acoustics valve amp) ?

Nice. That will make for a nice comparison for us that love the altered coloured distorted non-neutral sound with its visually appealing sighted biasing effects (that we keep getting told we have.)

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10 minutes ago, Rockford said:

OK, I've put my money where my mouth is, as all the threads had piqued my curiousity and have ordered the smaller March Audio amp for my system to see how it fares.  At 125W it should be able to drive my speakers easily.  I will let people know my opinions (admittedly it is against a completely at the other end of the scale in terms of Alan's ethos - a Weston Acoustics valve amp) ?

 

:thumb:  Looking forward to reading about your conclusions, R.  :)

 

Andy

 

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3 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Nice. That will make for a nice comparison for us that love the altered coloured distorted non-neutral sound with its visually appealing sighted biasing effects (that we keep getting told we have.)

Ouch! :) 

 

I think we make too much of it, personally.     Nothing could be more coloured than my 2.5 watt SET.  Yet I had no trouble moving over to the Tripath 50 watt amp.  That which I describe as "sweetness" in the high end was still there. Both amps can articulate the intricacies of the breath of the wind instrument, and the percussive strikes on strings of an acoustic guitar, and the breath of air on a female vocal.  Of course, at loud volumes the SET would struggle and that's where the Tripath beats it.  Now if (I say 'if' but I am sure it will be so) the Hypex class D  does the same and more,  why wouldn't we like it as well?   This valve vs solid state thing is getting old.   Why can't there be good examples of both?

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18 minutes ago, Rockford said:

OK, I've put my money where my mouth is, as all the threads had piqued my curiousity and have ordered the smaller March Audio amp for my system to see how it fares.  At 125W it should be able to drive my speakers easily.  I will let people know my opinions (admittedly it is against a completely at the other end of the scale in terms of Alan's ethos - a Weston Acoustics valve amp) ?

Yin V Yang.

This should be fascinating and I very much look forward to your impressions.:)

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5 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

I think we make too much of it, personally.     Nothing could be more coloured than my 2.5 watt SET.  Yet I had no trouble moving over to the Tripath 50 watt amp.  That which I describe as "sweetness" in the high end was still there. Both amps can articulate the intricacies of the breath of the wind instrument, and the percussive strikes on strings of an acoustic guitar, and the breath of air on a female vocal.  Of course, at loud volumes the SET would struggle and that's where the Tripath beats it.  Now if (I say 'if' but I am sure it will be so) the Hypex class D  does the same and more,  why wouldn't we like it as well?   This valve vs solid state thing is getting old.   Why can't there be good examples of both?

Quite sure there are. I've said numerous times I also have Hypex NC400 power amps as my backup. Nice amps, and an absolute bargain when built from kit form.

Edited by Ittaku
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10 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

   This valve vs solid state thing is getting old

I agree.

 

10 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

Why can't there be good examples of both?

There definitely is. I have seen and heard good (and bad ) examples of both tube and SS topologies and I am sure that many here have done the same.

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1 hour ago, Rockford said:

OK, I've put my money where my mouth is, as all the threads had piqued my curiousity and have ordered the smaller March Audio amp for my system to see how it fares.  At 125W it should be able to drive my speakers easily.  I will let people know my opinions (admittedly it is against a completely at the other end of the scale in terms of Alan's ethos - a Weston Acoustics valve amp) ?

Good man! Look forward to a write up :thumb:

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If the planets align I’m hoping to have Alan from March Audio pop along for a small gtg for the Perth crew in a month or so’s time. Hopefully he can bring his amps along and we can do a bit of a comparison to my MF A5cr power amp. Should be fun.

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