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Connoisseur BD2A Repairs


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Hey

 

So we've been given a Connoisseur BD2A Turntable by my father in law, and intend to use it for financial and nostalgic reasons.

It however has a little fault where the motor sometimes starts up backwards. It's also missing the head shell, but are these a standard sizing? Other tonearms I've had were all straight through with the head shell as part of the arm...

 

Does anyone know who would be able to get this going in the south east QLD area?

I don't want to spend a fortune, but also want to see it running again.

 

Does anyone also have experience changing arms on these tables? It's not a separate arm board like the LP12's, so I assume options are more limited, and I guess permanent once the hole is made bigger..

 

Cheers for any help/advice

 

Dan

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What arm is on it? Pictures? Is it the the model with suspension? is it the one bolted on a plinth?

Edited by mloutfie
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There is a mechanical thing in the motor that stops it starting backwards
It sometimes gets noisey so it's taken out
If you flick the platter clockwise on start it will not go backwards
The start lever does this but it doesn't always work
The headshell is not replaceable with another type
A Grace 707 will be a good alternative

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Sorry, Been to busy to get to pictures haha. Its the original tonearm I believe to be a connoisseur piece but you guys would probably have a better idea. The head shell may not be lost, but if it is I take it your suggesting replacing the whole tonearm with a 707? What other arms would fit? SME3009 seem readily available, or would a Rega suit?20190531_194111.thumb.jpg.b223ba6d181932eccc4d90944a14c855.jpg20190531_194005.thumb.jpg.5dce98e394885e119bba1be60258dba9.jpg

20190531_194016.jpg

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I think my father in law said the little plastic thing is broken, but he couldn't fix it, but to be honest I hadn't thought about just starting it manually, Being a DC motor I understand they run as freely both directions, so if it's an electrical fault would the manual start of the platter give enough momentum/force to override the motor issue?

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3 hours ago, Gremrock said:

Sorry, Been to busy to get to pictures haha. Its the original tonearm I believe to be a connoisseur piece but you guys would probably have a better idea. The head shell may not be lost, but if it is I take it your suggesting replacing the whole tonearm with a 707? What other arms would fit? SME3009 seem readily available, or would a Rega suit?20190531_194111.thumb.jpg.b223ba6d181932eccc4d90944a14c855.jpg20190531_194005.thumb.jpg.5dce98e394885e119bba1be60258dba9.jpg

20190531_194016.jpg

You might have to put it outside the plinth for other tonearm. That original  tonearm has quite short spindle to pivot distance. If I'm not wrong it was under 210mm it's definitely a short arm. You can verify this by measuring the distance. A grace 707 would be 222mm pivot to spindle distance

Edited by mloutfie
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Hey, 

 

My measurement comes in around 200mm, is there any better arm that can drop in without mutilating the plinth? I found another one cheap with the bits I need, so that could work, but is this table with its original arm comparable to say a rega Planar 3/6 ? I want to get/keep it running properly for nostalgic reasons but also want it to sound good. Would plan to put a DL103 or Ortofon jubilee, would either of these options pose problems for the bd2a in it's standard form?

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2 hours ago, Gremrock said:

Hey, 

 

. Would plan to put a DL103 or Ortofon jubilee, would either of these options pose problems for the bd2a in it's standard form?

The Connie tonearm doesn't keep the headshell parallel to the record by design (automatic anti skating) 

So DL103 with spherical stylus will be OK.

Don't use a fine line stylus.

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2 hours ago, Gremrock said:

My measurement comes in around 200mm, is there any better arm that can drop in without mutilating the plinth?

Some Japanese (usually CEC) tonearms from 1980's cheaper turntables have short tonearms that would fit, but I couldn't tell you which ones sorry.

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2 minutes ago, eltech said:

The Connie tonearm doesn't keep the headshell parallel to the record by design (automatic anti skating) 

So DL103 with spherical stylus will be OK.

Don't use a fine line stylus.

You're saying not the jubilee?

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2 hours ago, Gremrock said:

but is this table with its original arm comparable to say a rega Planar 3/6

The platter bearing is very quiet on the Connie, and the platter is nice 'n heavy so in this regard, it's excellent. The original tonearm is ok, but nothing fantastic, but does sound dynamic (from memory)

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13 hours ago, Gremrock said:

Hey, 

 

My measurement comes in around 200mm, is there any better arm that can drop in without mutilating the plinth? I found another one cheap with the bits I need, so that could work, but is this table with its original arm comparable to say a rega Planar 3/6 ? I want to get/keep it running properly for nostalgic reasons but also want it to sound good. Would plan to put a DL103 or Ortofon jubilee, would either of these options pose problems for the bd2a in it's standard form?

This table is not the same level as planar 3 let alone 6. I have both 3 and bd2(suspended) in the past. I didn't like the small platter for one there is an inch of record end just hang without support. It's a decent starting table but that's about it. 

 

Now back to tonearm project lower end model I think has 200mm pivot to spindle distance (8.6 inch arm) https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/products/Replacement-Tonearm . You might need to do a bit of work with the chassis to fit the mount but doable.

 

For cartridge I suggest go to a more basic cartridge like om10 it at95e. Dl103 would be to low compliance and ortofon jubilee would be way overkill for this table not to mention it's really expensive

Edited by mloutfie
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I have 1 of these sitting in the spares cupboard. Mine is the kit version (built by my father in the 70's) and installed on a nice solid hardwood plinth. I have the Grace 707 arm on mine but I have a lose wire connection somewhere and 1 channel drops out intermittently. It is otherwise in brilliant condition. As I didn't know what I was sitting on I bought a low end Project table and have slowly made my way up the TT ladder to the extent I'll never use mine again despite Duc(rip) once telling me I'd need to spend well over $1000 to better it.

 

@Gremrock If you'd like mine to combine the best of each table send me a pm and we can work out a solution.

 

 

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Thanks for the advice and the offer @blybo, how's the tonearm sit with it? I understand they're a lot longer than the original, does this suit properly and would it suit the Jubilee? I have one needing a repair which would cost me $500, so it would be nice to make use of it.. I'm be getting a supratek with a mc phono, so it really needs to be low output not a magnet. 

 

Will know after tonight if I have a donor table for motor etc, but even if I do I may still be on the lookout for a better (cheap) arm to put on

 

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I don't have specs but the 707 AIUI, was 1 of the most common arms mated to this turntable so it was not retro fitted, it came as OEM. I think the arms still sell for around the $300 mark and are highly regarded, as are the Grace carts. I would think any cart would suit, although I'm no expert. Not sure I understand this...

14 minutes ago, Gremrock said:

I'm be getting a supratek with a mc phono, so it really needs to be low output not a magnet. 

This has no bearing on arm type, you can fit any MM or MC art to any arm, some carts suit better than others according cart and arm weight etc etc. As I said, I'm no expert.

 

My motor still runs perfectly and without noise, however they are all a little slow to get up to speed. I also have at least 1 spare rubber band for the platter which I brought in from England.

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1 hour ago, Gremrock said:

 

Thanks for the advice and the offer @blybo, how's the tonearm sit with it? I understand they're a lot longer than the original, does this suit properly and would it suit the Jubilee? I have one needing a repair which would cost me $500, so it would be nice to make use of it.. I'm be getting a supratek with a mc phono, so it really needs to be low output not a magnet.

 

 

If you're planning on using a Jubilee - fine cart!  :thumb: - with its 11gm mass (including cart bolts) and Dynamic Compliance of 16, you need a light to medium compliance arm, according to the Vinyl Engine Resonance Calculator.  Say 7-15gm eff weight.

 

Andy

 

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Hey @blybo sorry, multi-facetted reply. The Supratek is a Low Output MC only stage, with very high gain, so I can't use a Magnet cartridge with 3+mv output as it will blow. you out of the room (and probably have ridiculous background noise too) That part was aimed more towards @mloutfie.  (Also @eltech says you shouldn't use the fine eliptical stylus with the connie tonearm as it's no quite straight with the groove... not sure how this would be with the grace?)

 

If it's going to cost $300-400 to get a DL103 I'd rather spend a little more and get the Jubilee running as its simply in a different league.

 

Cheers @andyr, but I think that's only part of the story, tonearm picking I suppose has to do with the angles and length etc involved and I have no clue how to work out what would suit it haha. The Grace obviously fits it if it was supplied as part of a kit, so I guess ill look into its mass specs

 

Looks like I won the auction for the donor table for $75 + freight. If I get a table running out of it (minus a cart) with standard tonearm, I guess I'm not doing too bad.

 

Does anyone know of a really cheap Low output option that could work, or is DL103 really where it starts?

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2 minutes ago, Gremrock said:

 

If it's going to cost $300-400 to get a DL103 I'd rather spend a little more and get the Jubilee running as its simply in a different league.

 

 

Absolutely!  :thumb:

 

2 minutes ago, Gremrock said:

 

Cheers @andyr, but I think that's only part of the story, tonearm picking I suppose has to do with the angles and length etc involved and I have no clue how to work out what would suit it haha. The Grace obviously fits it if it was supplied as part of a kit, so I guess ill look into its mass specs

 

 

No, sorry, G - effective arm weight (that I talked about) is entirely different to "angles and length etc"!

 

"Angles and length" mean you can put the arm pillar in the right position to get the cartridge correctly aligned.

 

But there's a relationship between the arm's effective weight and the cart's weight & dynamic compliance.  If this relationship is bad ... the cart won't sound any good on that arm.

 

Andy

 

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I doubt the TT nostalgia aside is worth the effort..1 bought 1 on eBay for $23 took it to my tech for evaluation. He took it and me out the back and placed it gently in his dump bin.

Hes a big man the inference seemed to be that if I bought a TT without asking his opinion first next time I’d be placed in the bin

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7 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Absolutely!  :thumb:

 

 

No, sorry, G - effective arm weight (that I talked about) is entirely different to "angles and length etc"!

 

"Angles and length" mean you can put the arm pillar in the right position to get the cartridge correctly aligned.

 

But there's a relationship between the arm's effective weight and the cart's weight & dynamic compliance.  If this relationship is bad ... the cart won't sound any good on that arm.

 

Andy

 

Hey,

 

I get that, I mean more that it needs to suit the table, before the cartridge suiting the arm is important. Needs to suit both :(

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2 minutes ago, djb said:

I doubt the TT nostalgia aside is worth the effort..1 bought 1 on eBay for $23 took it to my tech for evaluation. He took it and me out the back and placed it gently in his dump bin.

Hes a big man the inference seemed to be that if I bought a TT without asking his opinion first next time I’d be placed in the bin

Haha love the story. The theory is to just put the good motor and tonearm (or possibly even just headshell there's really nothing wrong with the one on there it's just lost the headshell in storage) and get a new belt and it should be just about good to go.  Was hoping I'd be told the Jubilee would suit it with the arm it has, so it can then be used down the track. Even buying a DL103 though is not a bad investment, as I could likely use it for a few years and still resell it for 80% of what I pay, particularly if bought second hand.

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2 minutes ago, Gremrock said:

Hey,

 

I get that, I mean more that it needs to suit the table, before the cartridge suiting the arm is important. Needs to suit both :(

 

Sorry, G - I can't quite understand what you've written.  :(

 

The relationships that are important are as follows:

  • the cart needs to suit the arm's effective mass.
  • this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the arm's length ... or its mounting distance.
  • some TTs (eg. a Linn LP12) will only take a 9" or 9 1/2" arm, at most.
  • some TTs (eg. a Linn LP12) do not go well with heavy arms.

 

Andy

 

 

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Just now, andyr said:

 

Sorry, G - I can't quite understand what you've written.  :(

 

The relationships that are important are as follows:

  • the cart needs to suit the arm's effective mass.
  • this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the arm's length ... or its mounting distance.
  • some TTs (eg. a Linn LP12) will only take a 9" or 9 1/2" arm, at most.
  • some TTs (eg. a Linn LP12) do not go well with heavy arms.

 

Andy

 

 

The Con is a very short arm, so doesn't leave much space to go longer. 

 

If the DL103 is going to suit the original arm, This may be the best way to try things first once I get the donor table. If it doesn't work well I guess I can just resell the cartridge and then get serious later about a whole other turntable.

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I have the kit version bd1 mounted on a reinforced concrete plinth (about 30KG) with an RB300 tonearm and garrott P77. I replaced the steel plate with brass. The bearing is set solid in the concrete. The platter has a 3mm perspex platter mat with neoprene bonded to it (full size of the mat is 12 inches). In this form you would be surprised how good it sounds, in fact so good I have not bothered to replace it with anything else. I do have a lenco gl75 in the shed I  will get going one day in concrete plinth to see if it is any better.

Wayne

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Sounds interesting, but I'm under strict instructions not to molest the thing haha, wonder if an rb300/330 Would drop in on the standard plinth? Good budget option for sure for a replacement arm.

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1 minute ago, Gremrock said:

Sounds interesting, but I'm under strict instructions not to molest the thing haha, wonder if an rb300/330 Would drop in on the standard plinth? Good budget option for sure for a replacement arm.

The BD2 plinth is not large enough to mount an RB300. The connoisseur tonearm is very short

Wayne

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  • 3 months later...
On 02/06/2019 at 9:09 PM, eltech said:

The Connie tonearm doesn't keep the headshell parallel to the record by design (automatic anti skating) 

So DL103 with spherical stylus will be OK.

Don't use a fine line stylus.

Would that Ortofon rondo red in the classifieds work? I can't seem to find a lot of info on its stylus. I can get a dl103 for similar price but have a sort of soft spot for the Ortofons 

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  • 4 months later...

@eltechYou've advised a DL103 would be suitable, but for a slightly cheaper alternative would something like an Ortofon MC10 suit? It's an "elliptical" stylus, as opposed the "Fine Elliptical" or "Fine Line Elliptical" of the MC20/20 variants? I can get one of these for around half the price of the DL103. 

 

Have ordered a motor suspension kit and have a donor table with an intact tonearm. Cartridge seems to mount from underneath, does this limit options or just a unique way of fitting?

 

Also it has what appears to be an in-tact M91ED Shure cartridge on it, Cantilever is straight and Diamond is there, Would anyone be interested in this? Seems to sell for around $100-150 so I intend to list it for $100 posted. Will either test first if I get to it, or offer a week return option if I don't get to testing. Looks like a nice cartridge just too high output for my pre.

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