s4turn Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 I've read so much about tube amps giving a different signature sound as opposed to SS amps. Im quite interested in these now, however the price is a way over my budget. and Im not sure where to really start here. firstly would I benefit from a Tube amp by using my Onkyo 706 amp as a preamp? Source being the PC via optical out with Proac 2.5 clones? I have also read the proac 2.5 clones are quite inefficient and would require more power. would I also need a tube preamp? Id be looking at spending roughly around $500-600 (maybe a little more) I have seen a few Yaqin amps? more so the ML-10L on ebay for around $350-400 u.s shipped to NZ or would I be better waiting for a better second hand tube amp to come up for sale?
Shane Hanify Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 Gidday S4turn, on your first question, no. You would never have a tube power and SS pre, as that's the bad combination. You could however use a tube pre leading to your 706. This would work mainly for 2 ch sources. You'd simply feed it into either an available input or better still, if you have a direct input (bypasses the amp's processing) then use that. This of course only works for analogue connections. With your PC you'd have to go PC > outboard DAC > valve pre > AVR. Cheers, Shane.
nixon76 Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 Low Orbit;136605 wrote: You would never have a tube power and SS pre, as that's the bad combination. I had no complaints running this combination. Esp when my SS pre was also the DAC. In fact a Dac/Pre + Tube amp is the only combination I'd get in the future.
jasper1553552693 Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 I've been using the ss Sugden Masterclass pre with the Almarro A340 Monoblocks. Believe me it sounds very fine. I'm keen on hearing Neil's Shindo with the Almarros some time in the future. That could be a hell of a match.
NeilNZ Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 Yes that should be an interesting match for sure! Aaron is using a Plinius Pre with his ASL monos.... its impossible to put absolutes on anything in the Audio world. Just because its tubes doesn't mean its all rose tinted warmth and such, and solid state doesn't mean shrill nasty power either. Generally though SS watts are cheap and for a relatively inefficient pair of speakers like yours, a tube pre and SS power would be the way to go probably. Maybe. Potentially. Suck it and see... Its what I have in my set up and it works for me. Then again, it depends on how you listen, what you listen to and how big your space is... I had a little 50 Watt tube ARC integrated driving my big Dyns and it was excellent, and they were supposedly difficult to drive.
curiousgeorgenz Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 SS DAC/Pre running into tube here too. Happily listen for hours.
Electra Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 Low Orbit;136605 wrote: on your first question, no. You would never have a tube power and SS pre, as that's the bad combination. Whats your reasoning on this Shane? I don't understand why it would be a so much worse combo than tube pre into SS amps?
aarond1553552714 Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 on your first question' date=' no. You would never have a tube power and SS pre, as that's the bad combination. QUOTE'] real baaaaad combination, it keeps me up into the wee hours of the morning....
s4turn Posted October 25, 2010 Author Posted October 25, 2010 I do have a cheap (ebay) Muse USB dac, that Im also using via analogue outputs. Mainly use the Optical out though via the onkyo is there any tube amps in the price range or even second hand that would do the job? or particular models I should look out for? or would I be better getting a good SS power amp?
nixon76 Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 How big is your room and how loud do you like to play your music?
Beeman Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 SS Dac preamp into 200 watt valve monos here too - nice - sorry Low Orbit you missed the mark here by a mile - I agree with Neils advice - good luck
s4turn Posted October 25, 2010 Author Posted October 25, 2010 its a medium sized lounge, however its open plan so normally have to turn it up to get decent volume the Onkyo reciever currently powering it sounds fine, I was just wondering with the info on the net about valve amps sounding differently. Just very curious to get this sound now
got tinnitus Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 I'd say what Shane was suggestimg is a budget valve amp as a slave isn't a good idea...(?). The Yaquin's can be quite good but beware you won't get the slam/bass control of SS.
nixon76 Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 I don't think you'll (easily) find tube power for that situation for that budget.
little blue penguin Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 got tinnitus;136623 wrote: I'd say what Shane was suggestimg is a budget valve amp as a slave isn't a good idea... I thought Shane was suggesting that an AVR as a pre-amp would not get the best out of the valve amp. Come on Mr Hanify, explain yourself.
victor tubeman Posted October 27, 2010 Posted October 27, 2010 s4turn;136622 wrote: its a medium sized lounge, however its open plan so normally have to turn it up to get decent volume the Onkyo reciever currently powering it sounds fine, I was just wondering with the info on the net about valve amps sounding differently. Just very curious to get this sound now You can use your AVR as a pre with a tube amp,and if 2 chan is a priority a dedicated 2 chan pre will further improve your sound quality. Try a tube amp,you may not want to back to SS amp again. Cheers Victor.
Electra Posted October 27, 2010 Posted October 27, 2010 This thread is a little bit curious after a couple of discussions I had with some Hifi importers/dealers yesterday. I asked one "Why don't you have valve amps in your store" - which would mate very well ( to my ears ) with his premium brand speakers he is importing ( one I am very happy to see imported again!! ) His answer - He has had enough of people coming into the store telling him their system sounds terrible one day and great the next, of people coming into the store and complaining that their getting what turn out to be issues with the inherent problem of ( specially larger, power amplifier ) valves being microphonic, and then explaining to someone a year or two down the track that perhaps they might have saved themselves not only potentially into the thousands of dollars replacing their nice glowy things they had left on permanently because either they were pretty, or they sounded best well warmed, but also potentially thousands of dollars on their power bill. He is happy to concede that some people will always buy valve gear, that in some situations, valve gear sounds better and he is aware that he is not tapping that market. I suspect that its just something that he found was not great as a retailer. The other retailer, who sells a lot of valve based gear, invited me to see his personal system, which has no valves in it, nor any of his current display systems. Why? "Running costs, and most people cant be bothered with the hassles of valves" Maybe those of us on this forum who are valve lovers or appreciate good valve based systems really are the vast minority! Interestingly, I heard what must be the sweetest, best sounding stand mount system I have heard yet yesterday, and if I had felt like having $10K on my credit card or writing out a cheque for same, I could have it here in my lounge now. All solid state, modestly powered. But sorry Aaron, your SF's just got eclipsed!.
aarond1553552714 Posted October 27, 2010 Posted October 27, 2010 Yes, they have been eclipsed by the valve DAC & power amp combo now. Sweetest sound I've ever heard, right here at home.
Ayou21553552688 Posted October 27, 2010 Posted October 27, 2010 I wouldn't recommend an entry level valve amp into Proac 2.5 clones. Lots of SS muscle is IMO the best match for them or possibly something valve that is quite powerful, like a VTL or similar.
Jon1553552729 Posted October 27, 2010 Posted October 27, 2010 With a nominal sensitivity of 86dB/W/m I would avoid a tube power amp of less than 30W it would struggle at the loudness levels you are suggesting you listen to...
Antipodes1553552706 Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 I had no big problem driving Proac 2.5 clones with a 15w amp in a moderately large lounge, and 25w was comfortable.
Owen Y Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 I see nothing in the Proac 2.5 specs which would suggest that it would be any more difficult to drive for a valve amp, vs a SS one. Particularly if PP valve. SE valve is another matter. WPC requirement depends a lot, as usual, on listening SPL & listening distance/room size.
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