WI=3 Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Why is it that I manage to scratch new LPs despite taking the utmost care? This has happened to me twice recently. I took out my newish 180gm Miles Davis Kind of Blue last night and there it was in the first track - tick...tick....tick. I do take special care of my records and my Koetsu Rosewood is not over revealing of surface noise, the only thing I can think of is that my Pink Triangle Anniversary turnable does not have a mat for the record to sit on (it was designed that way), so maybe I need to take more care when removing records - like making sure it has totally stopped revolving. This is a thread born of sheer frustration and self flagellation in the hope that it might prompt me to be even more careful in the future.....
Guest Guest Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 I feel your pain. I've scratched brand new records just taking them out of their shitty, shitty inner sleeves for the first time.
Guest Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Record was probably scratched and/or scuffed before you got it. Poor handling at the factory and poor inner sleeves are to blame.
Owen Y Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 I actually takes quite a lot to audibly scratch a record. V often light scratches are not deep enough to affect the stylus tip deep in the groove. So, I would tend to agree...this 'scratch' was actually a blemish in the pressing (but you have not noticed before, right?). Sometimes, LPs are made with poor quality vinyl base material & imperfections are frequent. Sometimes pressing quality is inconsistent. And yes, one good thing about Koetsus is that they do not use stylus profiles that emphasise 'surface noise'.
ilikecrumpets Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 michael w;128513 wrote: Record was probably scratched and/or scuffed before you got it. Poor handling at the factory and poor inner sleeves are to blame. + 1. My 180gm copy of Archie Shepp's "Four For Trane' suffered the same fate. Bastard.
Ayou21553552688 Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 surface scratches that you can see are often not audible. MW is right when he says it happened in pressing, so its probably nothing that you did. Lots of people clean brand new records for this reason.
SONDEKNZ Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 I too have experienced scratches and scuffs on brand new LPs. And As Owen quite rightly states; it is not that easy to damage an LP to the inner depths of the groove. This is why I always hunt out older, original pressings. I feel that they were better manufactured in the first place... Especially West German and Holland pressings! Another thing. A lot of these new LPs [not all] have been digitally remastered and the original integrity of the signal has been compromised. They don't sound right, especially in the tops. Where possible, I say stick with the MINT old pressings... Otherwse, try to get an early AAD CD that hasn't been messed with. -TONY
WI=3 Posted July 26, 2010 Author Posted July 26, 2010 An interesting point, Sondek, and one I had not previously considered. I have been collecting records for over 40 years and now when I think of it I have many older recordings that remain scratch free.
Vinylhead Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 I have many old, standard weight (not 180 gm ) Lp's that are perfectly flat and "concentric". Many so-called new "premium" 180gm/200gm Lp's can't even get the tracks running concentric and often the LP is warped. These are just basic qualities which new 180gm, expensive vinyl should get right.( but don't )
Brian Ono Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 The older Vinyl I have seems harder than my later lps
SONDEKNZ Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 IMHO this HEAVY VINYL thing is just marketing hype. Of the thousands of LPs that I own, the best sounding ones come in all weights. For example, I have some truly excellent sounding LPs that are so thin they just about bend in my hand... But flatten out nicely on the platter. Some of the HEAVY VINYL LPs sound great too... But mostly they are OLDER HEAVY VINYL pressings [Circa 1960s]; not the new ones. Read what you like into that... Other great LPs I own are on the WORLD RECORD CLUB label... Here is a nugget for those of you who are interested in the music... not the snobbery. During the 1970s, many WORLD RECORD CLUB members signed-up for "X" number of records per month and to this day, [long after the original owner has passed on] many of these records have never been opened; let alone played. Best of all, some of these titles are amongst the best versions ever set to record; and most [not all] are well pressed and quiet. If you are not a label collector and just love the music, there is a lot to be had for nix out there... and for the best sound, you don't have to have it on HEAVY VINYL. Last point: IMHO HEAVY VINYL seems more prone to warping... So if it cost more, warps easier and doesn't sound any better... Why bother? Just my view... -SONDEK
Owen Y Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 Even during the halcyon days of vinyl (60s-late 70s) there were similar manuf quality issues. eg. It was known that English manuf Philips (classical) recordings tended to have noisy surfaces, compared with Dutch Philips pressings.
Robocop Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 All the more reason to give up vinyl. So many discrepancies ie: vinyl thickness, vinyl quality, easily scratched, RIAA curve, turntable speed wobbles, VTA changed for every record due to varying thickness of vinyl. I've heard this one and wow what a difference in sound. If you don't change VTA you most certainly are not getting the best off your record. Your stylus should resemble the vinyl cutter in alignment to record.
Citroen Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 Robocop;128652 wrote: All the more reason to give up vinyl. So many discrepancies ie: vinyl thickness, vinyl quality, easily scratched, RIAA curve, turntable speed wobbles, VTA changed for every record due to varying thickness of vinyl. I've heard this one and wow what a difference in sound. If you don't change VTA you most certainly are not getting the best off your record. Your stylus should resemble the vinyl cutter in alignment to record. OK, I'll bite! God bless Robocop, as he surely will go to hell for such blasphemy!
Citroen Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 Tim, It was most likely bad from the start. Almost drove me to give up on the new stuff (refer this AudioEnz thread)Bugger vinyl or the camels back is broken. About 1 in 10 of my new vinyl gets sent back, and most of the time its a pressing fault. About a third would have faults but not worth sending back (I just grit my teeth and live with it, and enjoy the other benefits of the medium).
kaka Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 None of my digital downloads have been scratched so far - am I doing something wrong ?
Citroen Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 kaka;128706 wrote: None of my digital downloads have been scratched so far - am I doing something wrong ? Ha haaaa! Some of my digital downloads have gone into the ether, never to be seen again, scratched off the face of this known world, lost in the ever increasing world of cyberspace (yeah yeah, i know all about the importance of back ups...).
WI=3 Posted July 27, 2010 Author Posted July 27, 2010 My hi-fi addiction began in the seventies, went via Pioneer PL12D and Linn Sondek to the original Sony CDP101(?) and Meridian MCD players. Then back to a Linn Sondek and now to a fabulous Pink Triangle Anniversary. I still have drawers full of silver discs. and recently purchased a second hand Meridian 507 to try playing them again. I got to say, scratches, warps and all that CD does nor come close to the sheer involvement of vinyl. And yes, I know that my vinyl front end is worth many times more than the CD player but for me it's true.
Gainz Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 Vinyl's lottery is what makes it so appealing to the fanatical brethren who are enslaved to it... just like my british pressing of fleetwoods best of which sounds amazing, where as all my copies of rumours are dull, lifeless frisbees. My 180 gram In rainbows Lp sounds fantastic yet other recent radiohead heavy vinyl lPs sound snarly. My long winded point is that a good record on a good player pretty much cleans up for listening pleasure. I bought a copy of Hendrix' band of gypsys to find a manafacturing fault in the first track (constant tick.) I returned it for another copy, same issue, same batch. The third record from the same retailer was fine. Go figure!
Robocop Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 Gosh when I started importing vinyl in the early 80's after hearing the sometimes huge sonic difference between NZ pressed and UK, my first import was Jimi Hendrix Electric Ladyland. Well bugger me if it didn't have cigarette ash moulded into the grooves. Despite that, it played well and absolutely blitzed my NZ copy(which had no bass in comparison).
Guest Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 Newbie;128709 wrote: Ha haaaa! Some of my digital downloads have gone into the ether, never to be seen again, scratched off the face of this known world, lost in the ever increasing world of cyberspace (yeah yeah, i know all about the importance of back ups...). There's a good article in the June Hi-Fi News by Barry Fox about his losing access to his legally downloaded music and movies when iTunes, AOL and Microsoft all conspired against him.
paul300b Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 As being someone who is part of the art/culture industry, I think we must remember vinyl pressings are cultural objects that will increase in value... (apart from some, you know, Sound of Music, Val Do___can, 25 Polk favs etc.) Digital downloads? You better back up those worthless bits (apart from musical/artist worth)...for they are financially worthless and cannot increase in value as time, edition, rarity is not involved.
nixon76 Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 Interesting take on things there. With digital the music is pretty much there for all time (someone somewhere around the world will always have a copy). Which as you point out makes a digital copy worthless. However you're talking about physical objects (lps) which may have some monetary value. Are we talking art for arts sake here or art for moneys sake?
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