stuarth Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 Following on from the thread about investment in Computer audio, there's some folks on this forum (these fora? - whatever) who have been using computer audio for some time. Most have been aiming for sound quality that surpasses that of most budget CD players, and even some mid-priced ones. My current PC audio setup sounds pretty good to me, but doesn't surpass the sound I get from my Arcam CD37 which is admittedly more mid-range than budget. I'm pretty confident the PC I'm using as the server is well suited for the task. See this thread for more on that. The USB DAC I'm using, the first-generation MusicStreamer II (reviewed elsewhere in Audioenz) is great value for money IMHO but things have moved on since then. Supposedly jitter is the big enemy with USB DACs which means the waveform may get mangled in the D>A conversion process. Asynchronous USB DACs - as explained here http://www.hifi-advice.com/USB-synchronous-asynchronous-info.html - seem to be the way to go for those like me who wish the simple plug-into-the back of the box route without extra outboard reclocking devices. I'm in no rush replace my little Streamer as the field is still evolving. To be released in NZ next month & of interest to me is the Arcam r-DAC http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,Solo,DACs,rDac.htm I'll be keen to audition the rDAC, as it's asynch & apparently uses the same Wolfson chip as the CD37. Here's some more to consider: I stumbled upon this site http://www.usb-dacs.com/ "news reviews & info for Australian customers" - probably with some bias. The Bel Canto DAC3 seems well reviewed. Are there any other contenders I should be looking out for without stepping up into the loftier price range of the Weisses, Perfect Waves, etc?
Ernie1553552694 Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 Watch out for Wadia later this year. They've launched the PowerDac 151, but that's got an amp built-in. There will be a companion model which is promising to be something special.
mazinger Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 i have never experienced a MusicStreamer II, if your expectation is high, u might need to look for spdif dac instead of usb dac! btw a little self promo here, new stocks of KECES just arrived, i will load them on TM tonight hehe...
nixon76 Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 horn-loaded;128246 wrote: I stumbled upon this site http://www.usb-dacs.com/ "news reviews & info for Australian customers" - probably with some bias. The Bel Canto DAC3 seems well reviewed. I haven't looked at that link but the DAC3's USB implementation is old school now and is something that I would only use out of convenience rather than sound quality. BelCanto in their latest (top end) DAC3.5 don't have an onboard USB implementation. Instead they have a special ST optical input. To use this you need one of their outboard USB -> ST Optical converters. Why outboard? The feel the field is moving too fast and that internal implementations will date too quickly - just like in the DAC3.
curiousgeorgenz Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 Ernie;128252 wrote: Watch out for Wadia later this year. They've launched the PowerDac 151, but that's got an amp built-in. There will be a companion model which is promising to be something special. c'mon that's a tease... tell us more.
stuarth Posted July 22, 2010 Author Posted July 22, 2010 Of course, rather than USB for the PC connection, there's the Ethernet alternative mentioned by Antipodes and others in the Computer Audio Investment thread. That option would interest me further down the track but opens another can of worms. I currently have a monitor directly attached to the PC which means I can choose tracks etc in my listening room - the PC is silent so I'm happy with it next to my audio rack. Admittedly aesthetics leave something to be desired, but . . . My listening room is off-line - no ethernet connection or wireless LAN. If it _did_ have ethernet I could put the music server in the room where my desktop PC and router live. However then I would need some remote connection to the server so I could control things from my favourite listening chair, such as a netbook running VNC or even (slather) an iPad or similar touch-screen interface. Many of you can do this streaming-type approach already with a Squeezebox or similar, but perhaps the DAC in those could be improved on? Anyway - thanks for comments so far.
x-large1553552716 Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 Would you consider using coaxial SPDIF output? This has many advantages over USB, especially the USB DACs at the lower end of the market. Firstly, you will be able to listen to 24-bit/192kHz high-res files. A lot of the cheaper USB DACs are limited to 16-bit/48kHZ. Even network streamers have difficulty with high-res, with the new Squeezebox Touch only supporting up to 24-bit/96kHz. Another thing to watch out for is noise from connection to the computer. If you use SPDIF, make sure the input to your DAC is transformer coupled, this goes a long way to isolating the noise from the computer. With USB you will need to find a galvanically isolated USB DAC, which I think you'll find are fairly rare. From memory I think the Peachtree Nova has a galvanically isolated USB input. Dollar for dollar, in the low to mid level, I think you'll find you'll get better peformance using an SPDIF DAC. To get the best out of USB you need to start looking at asynchronous USB DACs from the likes of Wavelength and Ayre Acoustics. A cheap but sometimes time consuming exercise is to make sure the data coming out the USB/SPDIF is bit-perfect. Google it and you'll find numerous forums to start you in the right direction. You'll be surprised what the OS can do to the seemingly simple task of spitting out 1's and 0's.
Robocop Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 Mr Jones I reckon Computer Hi-fi deserves its own forum. Its the future and gaining ground.
stuarth Posted July 28, 2010 Author Posted July 28, 2010 x-large;128879 wrote: Would you consider using coaxial SPDIF output? x-large, I have considered this, but my little server does not have any provision for SPDIF on the case itself. There is a header (i.e. pins) for SPDIF on the mainboard but I'd need to do some surgery on the case. Beeman, I'd taken a look at the pricetag of the Wavelength Cosecant and ruled it out as being overkill, but looking further I see they have a more basic model that is well reviewed - the Brick. http://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/905listen/ J Gordon Rankin seems to prefer USB to SPDIF (from above review): Then there's the matter of timing: Any D/A converter and its datastream source must be synchronized with one another, and in a system of digital separates, that's usually accomplished by having the converter lock on to the word-clock signal contained in the datastream from the transport. According to Rankin, the S/PDIF environment is more prone to unwanted variations in the frequency of the incoming word-clock signal, which the converter is always trying to track. But with a USB controller generating its own word-clock signal, the frequency remains steady. "In USB," Rankin says, "the bit clock and the word clock are almost a given: There are only a few frequencies it has to deal with, and if it sees a standard PCM signal coming in, it says, 'What's this? 44.1kHz? Fine—let's go!' It doesn't waver." For now I'm enjoying the PC setup as is, although I'm sure it can be improved on. Playlists are great - I can make my own 'compilations' with a running order that I choose!
Ernie1553552694 Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 curious_george;128265 wrote: c'mon that's a tease... tell us more. There's been talk that Ray Samuels has been assisting with a headphone stage on this new unit. It sounds, um, hot.
stuarth Posted July 28, 2010 Author Posted July 28, 2010 x-large;128879 wrote: Firstly, you will be able to listen to 24-bit/192kHz high-res files. A lot of the cheaper USB DACs are limited to 16-bit/48kHZ. Even network streamers have difficulty with high-res, with the new Squeezebox Touch only supporting up to 24-bit/96kHz. Good point. Ability to play 'hi-res' files is one reason I'm looking to upgrade my present DAC which is limited to 16 bit as above. I've yet to listen to 24 bit files, but a closer approximation to the original waveform has to be better. Despite all the talk of the demise of the silver disc there doesn't seem to be a wealth of alternatives yet for those in NZ wanting to improve on CD quality. There's some music I like on the Naim and Linn sites, but hdtracks (good back catalogue jazz) wants a US credit card. Maybe a few years down the track with improvements in broadband, downloading these large files will seem no big deal, and more record companies will embrace the australasian market? Sorry for taking my own thread slightly off-topic!
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