New speakers!

[s4turn]

Hello All,

 

 

I just joined this forum days ago, as there some good info on this site, and thought i Could get some further help here

 

Im not an Audiophile purist or anything, but enjoy good quality music reproduction

 

I have a somewhat limited background in Audio, but have interests in Car audio for years as personal interest as well! with a 2 way active system + sub etc

 

my current room/setup isnt ideal, as its a open plan lounge.. that extends into other rooms

 

currently have a cheaper Denon (1709?) A/V receiver with a sony dvd player

mainly using my HTPC via optical out to the receiver now as the main source

fronts are Wharfedale Emeralds floorstanders, emerald center and mission di-pole rears, Jamo e85? sub

 

whats sparked me to upgrade.. is I went out the other day to replace my PC bookshelf's and ended up getting little m31 missions which I really like the sound of which is powered by a a209 pioneer amp (bi-amped as well)

 

I liked it that much, I ended up listening to all my music again

tested the bookshelf's in the lounge and they sounded great too

 

to get the to the main point... Im after some new fronts to replace my emeralds mainly for music listening and movies

 

I have a budget of 800-1k to spend... the less the better..

my local stereo shop is Paul moneys.. as alot of other retailers have since closed down

 

Im not sure what to get, whether I leave only restrict myself to the brands Paul Money has, or to look at everything

as I can audition the speakers first hand at Paul Moneys

 

a few deals on trademe have sparked my interest.. however some speakers I would not be able to audition! - Im based in AK

 

I like mainly Rock, and now starting to listen to Classical, Jazz and Opera...

 

I have heard many in store setups over the years, including B&O 15k? speakers, and some big systems in Smiths Hi fi (where I got my sub years ago) and loved them to pieces...

not a fan of satellites speakers.. prefer the full body of bookshelf's or floorstanders

also heard many B&W setups.. and some I liked and others disliked.. I even sold a set of B&W 600 series years ago in Noel leemings..

 

 

Question is..

 

for a budget of 800-1k or around there.. what would be an ideal speaker or speakers I should start short listing? I know its a bit of a guess.. but some brands like paradigm, Jamo now... Arvus? I do not have the access to listen to these... and only going by reviews on the net...

 

Im also watching trademe closely for any deals..

 

 

/my future posts wont be long.. just thought id give the reader tired eyes and a better understanding of my past

[s4turn]

also have owned diamond 9.1s and did a back to back comparison of my emeralds bookshelf's with them..

 

eventually ended up selling the diamonds. also do not like the sound of the pacific evo's that wharfedale make...

 

so wharfedale is a little out of the question for me now.. unless I can hear some Opus speakers

[Electra]

Everyone has been quiet around here... Welcome to the forum

 

If your budget is limited to that sort of money, I would strongly suggest looking second hand. TM is your friend, but ensure you can pickup and pay once your satisfied that the speakers are indeed in good, working order. Or, get some form of guarantee from the seller regarding this.

 

There were a pair of Missino 782's on TM recently which didnt sell, with new midrange drivers ( this was a common problem with 78series Missions, the new drivers are of a different type and sorted the problem ) which are great sounding speakers, and very, very small for floor standers.

 

Otherwise, look for some larger M3 series missions on TM, some of the better M5 or M6 series ( very similar speakers, the M54 is a pretty good all round floor stander ) or maybe even some Q acoustics ( or is it Q audio? ) which is basically what the people behind Mission have become once Mission became part of IAG ( Also own Wharfedale, Quad..... )

 

Good luck. Ask questions on here, people are willing to help

[s4turn]

how would the 782's rate against the other mission models?

 

Im a little confused by the model line up, Mission Offer

 

I realize the M6 series is better or a step up from the M3's, however from reviews the m3 series have better bass?

 

but the e series? where do they fit in? and then the Mission 7xx series?

I also read that in reviews about the 782's with the failing mids

 

 

I really like the sound the little mission m31's produce.. so I guess I cant go wrong with buying higher end missions..

 

I plan to hear them all if I can

[Electra]

The 782 is a totally different kettle of fish from the M3. The M3 is a bit of a movie speaker in my opinion - My brother owned a pair of M34's ( originals, not the newer i version ) and while they were pretty ok for music, they were more aimed at the HT market I felt, specially in their more bassy tuning, albeit at the expense of articulate bass. The M6 is a more musical speaker ( which gives away little in HT ) with better integration between woofer and tweeter, better build quality and nearly double the price tag. You get what you pay for though.

 

The 782 has been replaced by the 794, which reviews well. Its essentially the same setup ( with a different mid ) in a newer cabinet design.

 

The E series are I think aimed slightly more toward the looks market, as opposed to the M series being for the value market. They review well, but I think that generally their a bit on the expensive side for what they are.

[Electra]

 

s4turn;105544 wrote:

 

but the e series? where do they fit in? and then the Mission 7xx series?

 

I also read that in reviews about the 782's with the failing mids

 

The new mids are a different material, which has solved this issue. The original cone material released ascetic acid, which the voice coils did not appreciate too much.

 

The 7xx series are Missions premium range ( the Pilastro being their flagship, another beast altogether )

 

The M3i's are the cheapest models I think, the M6 sitting between the M3 and the 79x models. The E series I think are spaced between the M3 and the 79x also.

[Luckiestmanalive]

What about these?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Home-audio/Speakers-and-stands/Floor-speakers/auction-245129823.htm

[s4turn]

also.. I have a 2 channel Pioneer a209 amp

Im wondering if that would be better driving the new speakers I intend to buy?

using the preout on my denon amp?

 

or am I wasting my time with that pioneer amp?

 

as I need to look for a cheap receiver for my PC speakers as id rather use the optical out

[SpongyP]

 

s4turn;105520 wrote:

 

... for a budget of 800-1k or around there.. what would be an ideal speaker or speakers I should start short listing?

 

I was tossing up b/t Q Acoustics 1030 and Paradigm Monitor 7 a year ago - but then saw a pair of Image 412 (ex-demo, returned from an audio dealer) for similar money to new Q 1030s so scored these. I love the 412's - fantastic 2-channel but also a lot of fun when pumping HT.

 

The Q's sounded great when demoed and are I believe good value, but I get the feeling they have low resale appeal - maybe being a newish brand, no high-end models (yet), or perhaps the quirky looks of the 1000 range.

A pair of the first model on offer (& within your budget) at http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Home-audio/Speakers-and-stands/Floor-speakers/auction-245581631.htm

 

I have never owned Paradigm but do like the few I've heard; they (V3, V4, V5) often pop up on TM at realistic prices - within your budget.

[SpongyP]

 

s4turn;105520 wrote:

 

... whats sparked me to upgrade.. is I went out the other day to replace my PC bookshelf's and ended up getting little m31 missions which I really like the sound of which is powered by a a209 pioneer amp (bi-amped as well)...

 

Not quite clear on your bi-amped comment; are you talking about A+B speakers?

[s4turn]

 

SpongyP;105594 wrote:

Not quite clear on your bi-amped comment; are you talking about A+B speakers?

 

 

yes, so the a channels going to high, b to the mids

[s4turn]

has anyone compared the missions back to back?

 

more so the e54 with the m64's or a similar model from those series?

quite anxious to hear what peoples opinions are on them

 

as theres not much info on the net about the e54's

[Electra]

 

s4turn;105578 wrote:

 

as I need to look for a cheap receiver for my PC speakers as id rather use the optical out

 

Get a dac/preamp. There are plenty of fairly cheap options on Tm, or something like http://www.miniatureaudio.com/fubar3.html

 

USB appears to be a pretty reasonable digital audio transfer method.

[s4turn]

Would I be better to use the amp for my fronts for my HT system? or not bother?

[Luckiestmanalive]

 

s4turn;105604 wrote:

Would I be better to use the amp for my fronts for my HT system? or not bother?

 

Try it out and see what you think. I wouldn't think the Pioneer would be much of an improvement but your ears are the final arbiter. I did it for a while when I bought a (second hand) Plinius power amp as it was a noticeable step up from my Onkyo receiver.

[tamarillo]

always interesting - new budget or second hand 'was better in its day'. Good thing about S/H is you can usually resell at same $ if you just dont get on with it whereas buy new and you take a hit. BUT new means auditions, support, advice. Surprised you disliked the diamonds so much - maybe it was the environment it was in? Money does do some great prices on Diamonds and for their money they can do a fine job - maybe ask if you can take your pioneer in to demo with properly?

Albe maybe be patient and keep a look on this sites listings as well - some old but good speakers still sound very very good. I tested some 20 year old Dean Alto's I have spare against newer $1000 speakers and would not have bothered spending the money - the money would have been better spent on front end source as the old Deans were well capable of partnering newer gear. To me speakers are basically very old fashioned things compared with sources and next amps. So IMO don't be afraid of older GOOD speakers and spend saved money elsewhere. And if you don't like what you buy, or have money burning in a years time - sell and buy better.

[little blue penguin]

 

s4turn;105520 wrote:

Helloended up getting little m31 missions which I really like the sound of which is powered by a a209 pioneer amp (bi-amped as well)

 

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

 

Without intending any offence (we all have to learn things as we get more involved in this hobby) I'd just like to correct you on one thing.

 

The A209 amp is a stereo amp with 2 sets of speaker terminals (a + b).

 

From your description of the wiring I believe that your system is actually bi-wired, rather than bi-amped.

 

 

s4turn;105520 wrote:

a channels going to high, b to the mids

 

A bi-amped system has a seperate amplifier for each cable.

 

I've no other comments or suggestions to add, but I encourage you to enjoy the journey, and stay focused on the goal of music reproduction.

 

Treat the equipment and media as just the means of achieving that goal.

 

No point having flash toys with no soul.

 

 

Regards,

Brendan.

[s4turn]

the diamonds were nice speakers, but head to head with the Emeralds .. the emeralds were just nicer all around

 

I had the diamonds for nearly a year? they were nice speakers

but if I had to choose m31's or Diamond 9.1's... the missions win hands down imho

I was not impressed years ago when I heard the Pacific Evo's off some high end pioneer receiver at Monaco in their showroom, the speakers just did nothing for me

 

 

i got to listen to the m64i's for 5 minutes haha

but will audition them properly in the weekend if I get time

 

sounded ok, but I wasnt really paying much attention as the shop was about to close.. was in a rush, just wanted to see them

 

 

the e54's look better in picture.. than in person.. however still need to audition them

 

 

the salesman rated the Energy C-500's? over the missions, and I have also read that in some reviews too

 

 

what Im thinking now.. is to set up a proper dedicated music room

as I have a spare bedroom with junk in it which needs clearing out

 

and leave the emeralds in the HT setup

[s4turn]

 

cloth_ears;105674 wrote:

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

 

 

 

Without intending any offence (we all have to learn things as we get more involved in this hobby) I'd just like to correct you on one thing.

 

 

 

The A209 amp is a stereo amp with 2 sets of speaker terminals (a + b).

 

 

 

From your description of the wiring I believe that your system is actually bi-

wired

, rather than bi-

amped.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A bi-

amped

system has a seperate amplifier for each cable.

 

 

 

I've no other comments or suggestions to add, but I encourage you to enjoy the journey, and stay focused on the goal of music reproduction.

 

 

 

Threat the equipment and media as just the means of achieving that goal.

 

 

 

No point having flash toys with no soul.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Brendan.

 

thanks bit of misconception there on my part!

[Shane Hanify]

 

s4turn;105597 wrote:

yes, so the a channels going to high, b to the mids

 

Gidday, welcome.

 

Just to clarify, A + B speakers do not in any way shape or form mean bi - amping. (would you run all of your channels on the Denon into the Wharfedales?). When you hit that button - which is there to run a zone 2 speaker generally (in another room) you make the amp work a lot harder (when running both at once).

 

Tie the binding posts together and run them off A only - you'll probably be pleasantly surprised.

 

Onto your other issue.

 

What is it you don't like about the big Wharfedales? Too much bass? Too little? Not enough clarity?

 

Before you go spending $ on upgrades that may or may not work, work with what you have first. Make absolutely sure they're set up as best they can be in the room they're in.

 

See if you can swap out the cabling for a different type / brand (that makes more of a difference than you'd imagine).

 

If you're still not settled, choose the amp you like the best, and cart it off to a hi fi store and demo demo demo.

 

Then pick some speakers and cart them home.

 

That should be a good starting point for you.

 

Cheers, Shane.

[s4turn]

 

Low Orbit;105678 wrote:

Gidday, welcome.

 

 

 

Just to clarify, A + B speakers do not in any way shape or form mean bi - amping. (would you run all of your channels on the Denon into the Wharfedales?). When you hit that button - which is there to run a zone 2 speaker generally (in another room) you make the amp work a lot harder (when running both at once).

 

cheers noted in the above reply

not to sound like an arse, but I do know the difference, however being so naive and the fact that I dont read things properly 9 times out of 10, made me look like a fool

I even explained the difference today to a work colleague about the difference between bi-amping and biwiring.. and there it was right under my nose..

 

 

 

Low Orbit;105678 wrote:

 

What is it you don't like about the big Wharfedales? Too much bass? Too little? Not enough clarity?

 

I tested them tonight, back to back with the m31's and they do sound quite nice to me, im actually thinking whether I even need to buy anything or not

 

 

 

ever since my emeralds got merged into the HT... i never have really listened or taken a liking to listening to music on them much

have had quite a few receivers over the time with the same speakers, the best they ever sounded.. was with a older harmon kardon amp

 

deep down, I really would like to have just a musical system, just need to justify spending the $$$$ on it

[Ernie1553552694]

.

[Evan1553552740]

Trust your instincts... Although most of the guys here on the forum love the diamonds and all seem to agree they are good value for money I just cant stand them, and im in the same boat as you about the pac evos... The only Warfs that I have liked lately were the opus but then I changed my mind because of the amount of midrange that was there.

 

At the end of the day some people like a particular sound and then others like us prefer a superior sound

[s4turn]

im now eyeing up the Proac studio 100's on trademe, no idea what they sound like but look very interesting from the reviews

[tanman_sg]

ProAc speakers tend to be a like it it hate it item. Personally I like them.

 

I'm not sure that they would offer value for money at the moment. They'll need a bit of grunt behind them to drive them nicely, and they might not just mesh with any gear.

 

Pays to have a good listen first.

 

(with your own gear and then compare with the sellers gear to see if yours will work)