Crazy mad scientist 2Ch and HT Setups

[Tonto]

As mentioned I have a doosey from my days working at HN

But first I wanna here all about those crazy 2nd systems/ making one system out of two, Trend Amps Mono Amping all drivers, crazier the better!

 

Here's a Taster (warning may cause Nausea:p)

 

I wired up an exe's Dads numerous midi type systems to give him Dolby Digital once - here goes - draw it out it looks insane!!!!

I used the analogue 5.1 channel out of a Mizuda DVD player (his first DVD!). He had lots of "lovely" passive subs so I used the L/R of one system to drive those. Sub Line in to Auxilery Input. Then I ran matching Sony Speakers across the front (one of those 4 way midi systems - I used 3 ). Then another smaller set up for surround which was handily by his computer on the other side of the room . So he had his computer audio on a switch with that! The trickey thing was level control and I cant remember how I did it , either a macro remote or a feature on the Mizuda I can't remember.

Cost $ for some RCA cables although the DVD was a recent buy- before then all the stereos were stacked next to the TV - Most had broken CD players/tape decks and the 4 ch one had a dodgey channel. It sounded OK, like one of those DVD Midi systems just better centre and surrounds.

The Horder-potential Father in law is probably praying I will be back one day!

 

There you go best is yet to come but please some crazy stuff to make my day!

[JamesB]

I think my digital playback chain might take the grand prize here!

 

I've got my CDs ripped to my hard drive and play them from the computer, so starting from there...

1. Computer, outputs USB to

2. USB HUB, outputs USB to

3. Optical USB cable, provides isolation from the PC and a 10m fiber run to

4. Empirical Audio Offramp Turbo 2, converts USB to AES/EBU, outputs to

5. Genesis digital lens, ram buffer jitter reducer, outputs AES to

6. DSC 974 upsampler, upsamples to 88.2khz, outputs AES to

7. Assemblage D2D-1, jitter reducer, outputs AES to

8. Cal SC-20 DAC, outputs the analogue signal to

9. Ortho Spectrum AR-2000 analogue reconstructor, and from there to

10. Preamp

 

I didn't plan it this way from the start. It kind of evolved organically!

 

It makes really good music.

[Ernie1553552694]

Does the music sound filtered, veiled or unnatural, because there's a lot of pieces in that remarkable chain, JamesB?

[Tonto]

Whoa, now what does half that stuff do:confused: lol !

Good thing digital has minimal cable effects!

[Tristar71]

 

JamesB;89239 wrote:

I think my digital playback chain might take the grand prize here!

 

 

 

I've got my CDs ripped to my hard drive and play them from the computer, so starting from there...

 

1. Computer, outputs USB to

 

2. USB HUB, outputs USB to

 

3. Optical USB cable, provides isolation from the PC and a 10m fiber run to

 

4. Empirical Audio Offramp Turbo 2, converts USB to AES/EBU, outputs to

 

5. Genesis digital lens, ram buffer jitter reducer, outputs AES to

 

6. DSC 974 upsampler, upsamples to 88.2khz, outputs AES to

 

7. Assemblage D2D-1, jitter reducer, outputs AES to

 

8. Cal SC-20 DAC, outputs the analogue signal to

 

9. Ortho Spectrum AR-2000 analogue reconstructor, and from there to

 

10. Preamp

 

 

 

I didn't plan it this way from the start. It kind of evolved organically!

 

 

 

It makes really good music.

 

 

pictures/ diagrams / explanations please

[grex]

that IS hard to beat james ! well done

[kaka]

Ah, but where is the weakest link ?

 

Another consideration is the interconnects and cables - what you been forced to compromise due to the numbers of cables involved ?

[nixon76]

 

JamesB;89239 wrote:

 

3. Optical USB cable, provides isolation from the PC and a 10m fiber run to

 

 

James, is this one of these? http://industrialcomponent.com/opticis/opm210010.html

 

Any problems with it? Does it need (DC) power at one or both ends?

[JamesB]

 

Tristar;89256 wrote:

pictures/ diagrams / explanations please

 

OK, here are some more details, hopefully they'll also answer some of the other questions on the thread

 

1. I've found computer audio a revelation. At first I thought that I'd rather listen to CDs but after some years the convenience of a computer for digital playback has won me over. A while back I brought a EA Off-ramp Turbo (the first model) to try out computer playback, this unit take its input via USB, hence USB output from the computer. The system listed is the result of many years of tweaking.

 

2. I got the optics USB cable to allow me to have the computer away from the stereo. As explained it also has other benefits (ie isolates the computers 'dirty' power supplies etc from the stereo). I found that the quality of power to the upstream end of this optical usb cable makes a difference. I guess the optical encoding of the signal and strength of light is effected by the quality of the 5v coming from the computer. I found that running the optical cable from a self powered USB hub made a big difference in the sound (hence it being another step in the playback chain). I've even gone so far as to open up the USB hub and replace some power supply capacitors with rubycon KZG and a black gate.

 

3. Rationale explained before. The other point of note is that I got a 5v rechargable battery (used for recharging cell-phones) and use this to power the downstream end, rather than the plug in adapter.

 

4. This is the external soundcard required to get bits to the DAC. As I already had a separate DAC before embaking on computer audio I got this one which allows me to use my existing DAC (which I like!). It is possible to plug this directly into the computer with a USB cable, the steps above are just extra tweaks!

 

5. Most people would know about this, its purpose is to reduce jitter. The empirical audio guy now makes his own version called the 'pace car'. I used to have 2 of these and daisychained them one into the other...

 

6. A while back I got a DCS 972 for upsampling, and later moved to a 974. This is the studio version of the purcell. Upsampling can be done by the computer, which I tried early on, but having the upsampling here allows me to use my digital lens (which can only accept 44.1khz), and the algorithm used sounds good. I also wanted to, at one stage, move to a more modern DAC and so can still use this unit to upsample to 384khz or DSD. This is a real can of worms, but one of the theorys with upsampling is that the DAC filters are less likely to effect a higher sample rate signal, because its happening higher in the frequency range. I'm upsampling to 88.2 because it sounds better to me than 96 (which is the highest my DAC will accept).

 

7. I found the the output of the 974 benefited from jitter reduction. This unit was to have been replace but the digital lens/974 combo, but because it can de-jitter 88.2 and because that seems to be an improvement, it stays here.

 

8. Just my DAC. I've done various modifications to it over the years (some kind fellow sent me the schematics), its a tube one which allows me to 'tube roll' to find a sound/tone I like.

 

9. A really esoteric piece of equipment that I found out about just by chance. IIRC it is a kind of low pass filter that encodes the analogue signal optically and then decodes it again, which is meant to make it sound better!!! (Look it up on the Web, suffice to say thoses explanations will be better than mine.) I though I'd give it a try--its one of those things that you only really know about by trying, and it made an improvement to my ears, so there you go.

 

10.

 

Organics...

 

A> I started with just the offramp and the DAC.

B> I got the Assemblage D2D-1 to offer some dejittering and upsampling to 24.96. (So now offrame > D2D-1 > DAC)

C> Because B shoed me improvements wrought both by upsampling and dejittering, I looked for a good upsampler (DCS make some of the best stuff), and a good de-jitterer (the digital lens is well regarded, though tere are many options here.

D> C was to replace B (and it did in the playback chain), but I found that because the D2D-1 can de-jitter the output of the upsampler, and because it made a positive difference, I kept it.

E> All the USB stuff is just tweaking, also there are many options on the computer that effect the sound (ie bios tweaks such as turning of spread spectrum control--which induces timing errors (jitter) on purpose). I upgraded my offramp to the next version.

F> The ortho spectrum came last and was just a punt on some strange (but well regarded) technology that paid off for me.

 

So, there you go.

 

Obviously if one already has components then a natural path for upgrade is augmenting them, especially over a long time period. If starting now from scratch I doubt I'd have anything quite so complicated, and yes, this can all be done with one box.

[JamesB]

 

kaka;89264 wrote:

Ah, but where is the weakest link ?

 

 

 

Another consideration is the interconnects and cables - what you been forced to compromise due to the numbers of cables involved ?

 

LOL, not sure about the weakest link. The DAC is old and if I could afford a DCS Scarlatti---well... If I had more disposable income I'd consider a second hand Elgar plus.

 

Each change has involved careful listening and much swapping equipment in and out etc. I'm pretty happy its near optimal, but obviously parts could be cut out of the chain. If I was looking at taking things out now it would be the de-jitter devices (digital lens and/or D2D-1), however I'd have to go though the whole listening/tweaking/evaluation process and can't really be bothered again (just to double check I was right first time!!). These are also the parts that I put together longest ago, most recent work has been on the computer and USB parts of the chain, and I'm more confident that these parts are optimal.

 

You make a good point about cables. I've tried various USB cables (which effect the sound) and settled on kimber ones. I later read that the ferrites on the kimber USB cables are bad for the digital signal so (as I have multiple cables, obviously) experimented in chopping off the ferrites but leaving the rest of the cable intact. This made an improvement, so thats the cable I'm using now for USB to the hub, and from the opticus to the offramp. Elsewhere I'm using ASE/EBU cables of repute, 1.5 meters long, I got good one to minimise cable interferance/loss/reflections and am pretty happy they do the job. But yes, with so many cable they can become a significant cost.

[kaka]

The Offramp comes with some upsampling software - its takes its time to upsample the 44.1 file to create another file, it isn't run on the fly

 

Have you tried that ?

[JamesB]

 

Ernie;89242 wrote:

Does the music sound filtered, veiled or unnatural, because there's a lot of pieces in that remarkable chain, JamesB?

 

No, I don't think so, but of course that's a subjective answer.

 

When talking digital, and the only thing that directly modifies the digital music signal is the DSC 974 upsampler. Everything else in the digital chain is concerned with signal strength, galvanic isolation, or correcting timing errors. Steps 1-8 take place exclusively in the digital domain.

 

For the analog part, well the sound is only as accuracte as the DAC, and as previously mentioned, the voodoo of the 'analogue reconstructor' is difficult to explain--you can read the reviews on the net as to whether it makes the music sound filtered etc. (I don't think so )

[JamesB]

 

kaka;89273 wrote:

The Offramp comes with some upsampling software - its takes its time to upsample the 44.1 file to create another file, it isn't run on the fly

 

 

 

Have you tried that ?

 

No, I haven't. I did try the secret rabbit code plug-in for foobar that came with it and IIRC liked the DCS unit better (this was a long while back).

 

The reason the DCS unit works well for me is that it allows me to use the digital lens (as outputting anything higher than 44.1 from the computer is incompatible with it), it also will upsample CDs that I play back via my transport (those not ripped, or those that someone brings over).

[JamesB]

 

nixon76;89265 wrote:

James, is this one of these?

http://industrialcomponent.com/opticis/opm210010.html

 

 

 

Any problems with it? Does it need (DC) power at one or both ends?

 

Yeah, that's the one.

 

It take host power from the upstream end (see my notes about about use of a hub), and requires 5v DC at the downstream end (they supply an adapter, but I'm using a battery).

 

I dunno if its because of the battery supply or slight incompatability with the offramp, but it sometimes takes a couple of goes to get the connection going. I turn the downstream battery off when I'm not using it, there is a light on the offramp 2 that idicates when its got power through USB, and it sometime takes a couple of off-on cycles of the battery to get this to light up. Sometimes the offramp won't be recognised when the computer boots up, but I just unplug the opticus and plug it in again and that fixes it.

 

I had a lot of correspondance with the distributors of the opticus and they think that the slight flakyness on startup (absolutely no problems when its going), are due to me having an old motherboard (1999) at the upstream end and not using the supplied wall-supply at the downstream end. Of course I'm not buying another computer and I wanna tweak, so I put up with this.

 

I actually have 2 of these cables, one not being utilised, if you're interested in giving it a try.

[JamesB]

Yeah. I bet I sound like a mad professor

 

Oh well, this is 3-4 years worth of info all spewing out at once. LOL. :cool:

[Tonto]

Hi James is it ok if I post your setup on another Forum? They would get a kick out of it

[grex]

any pics james ? you got me excited mate !

[JamesB]

 

grex;89284 wrote:

any pics james ? you got me excited mate !

 

Here are some crappy lo-res ones.

 

1 = BPS power supply for off-ramp turbo 2

2 = empirical audio off-ramp turbo 2

3 = battery power supply for opticus usb cable

4 = genesis digital lens

5 = ortho spectrum 'analogue reconstructor'

6 = assemblage d2d-1

7 = dcs 974

8 = cal sc-20 dac

 

This next one shows the positioning of the computer reletive to the stereo.

 

[JamesB]

 

Tonto;89282 wrote:

Hi James is it ok if I post your setup on another Forum? They would get a kick out of it

 

Sure

[Guest]

James;

 

Is that a Spectral preamp ?

 

Are you using the requisite MIT cables to the Plinius ?

[JamesB]

 

michael w;89293 wrote:

James;

 

 

 

Is that a Spectral preamp ?

 

 

 

Are you using the requisite MIT cables to the Plinius ?

 

Yeah, an old DMC-10. I'm not sure how requisite the MIT cables are for this preamp, it was produced circa 1980 and the spectral/MIT work was circa 1985. In any case there isn't a great deal stock about the pramp any more, I've had a go at it with the soldering iron. LOL.

[Tonto]

So you guys might not be able to beat JamesBs Shenanigins but please more madnesss, MORREEE!!! BWAHAHAHA:D

[kaka]

Hi James

 

I should have asked what your battery power supply for the offramp is ? Is it the EA unit or something else ?

 

I like the concept of avoiding the mains

 

Ta

[JamesB]

 

kaka;89320 wrote:

Hi James

 

 

 

I should have asked what your battery power supply for the offramp is ? Is it the EA unit or something else ?

 

 

 

I like the concept of avoiding the mains

 

 

 

Ta

 

Yep. Its the EA unit. Seem to have to replace the battery every 1-2 years or so.

[kaka]

 

kaka;89273 wrote:

The Offramp comes with some upsampling software - its takes its time to upsample the 44.1 file to create another file, it isn't run on the fly. Have you tried that ?

 

Oppps, memory loss has kicked in here

I checked out out again and EA supply the SRC (Secret Rabbit Code, no less) plugin for Foobar etc, so it is actually on the fly up-sampling