Jump to content

Yamaha RX-1100 Vs Rotel RB 1080


Recommended Posts

Am I going Up or Down?? 

I am trying to get into the (?) sub-audiophile level. [as in, I haven't got thousands to pour into "audiophile" level gear!] 

Recently invested [was a long time coming!] in a new turntable - Rega P6 + Garrott Bros K3. So far, sooo Good! 

Considering updating the Yamaha with a Rotel. Help? 

My speakers are mock JBL-4343's - all orig drivers, just not in a proper cabinet. 

Any advise/Help with the amp choice will be a wonderful help. [$1100 in reserve, that's it!] 

Many Thanks!

Kind Regards,

DogBox [Steve]  

 

***Oops! Think this should be in Beginners & Purchasing Advice... Sorry Moderators, my bad/newbie error :( 

Edited by DogBox
Wrong place?
Link to comment
Share on other sites



The Yamaha is a receiver meaning intergrated tuner and power amp in one unit and the Rotel is a power amp, which needs a preamp to go with it, so it’s like comparing apples to mangoes.

 

For $1100 used there are many good integrated amps meaning volume, phono and input selector controls with decent power amp in one box. You can also put together a separate preamp with those controls and team with something like the Rotel for that price. 

 

See or search regular forum poster Cafad’s reviews of many integrated amps for ideas. If you want to use the Rotel look for many popular preamp brands from Rotel, Yamaha, NAD and others for around $200-700+ and post again here for reviews.

 

Either upgrade should a lot better as receivers are known to have very blurry sound compared to good integrated amps.

Edited by Al.M
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Al.M said:

The Yamaha is a receiver meaning intergrated tuner and power amp in one unit and the Rotel is a power amp, which needs a preamp to go with it, so it’s like comparing apples to mangoes.

 

For $1100 used there are many good integrated amps meaning volume, phono and input selector controls with decent power amp in one box. You can also put together a separate preamp with those controls and team with something like the Rotel for that price. 

 

See or search regular forum poster Cafad’s reviews of many integrated amps for ideas. If you want to use the Rotel look for many popular preamp brands from Rotel, Yamaha, NAD and others for around $200-700+ and post again here for reviews.

 

Either upgrade should a lot better as receivers are known to have very blurry sound compared to good integrated amps.

What he said    -   secondhand ROTEL 1080 and a good pre should perform better than an equally priced integrated.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree a much newer 2ch solution is the way to go . I notice @DogBox the rx1000 is around 1985 vintage with aspects that wouldn't be good for sound quality these days with sources like sacd which have very wide frequency response beyond 20khz for example .. Not a lot of ce's very keen on midrange tone controls these days and cant imagine video detail comb filters and the like are conducive to a low noise environment with a short signal path like todays models :)
 

Quote

 

The rolloff at the low end of the FM response, which is less severe than we see in many receivers and tuners, isn't entirely due to the tuner itself. Yamaha seems to have deliberately delimited the receiver's frequency response, possibly to reduce the opportunities for intermodulation with so much going on in its circuitry. In particular, a useful infra-sonic filter is built in (and even listed in the specifications), rolling off at about 12 dB per octave below 10 Hz. The result of the bandlimiting is a slight droop at both ends of the audible spectrum: to - 3/4 dB at 20 Hz and to almost - 1/2 dB at 20 kHz.  


 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, cwt said:

sound quality these days with sources like sacd which have very wide frequency response beyond 20khz

Old amps can do 20-20khz and should on paper be able to do SACD but modern amps perhaps voiced more nicely.

 

There are many sub $700 good old power combos like Quad 405, Adcom 555, Audiolab 8000P, other Rotel, Musical Fidelity, Bryston, ME and NAD etc.

Edited by Al.M
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites



4 hours ago, Al.M said:

Old amps can do 20-20khz and should on paper be able to do SACD but modern amps perhaps voiced more nicely.

 

There are many sub $700 good old power combos like Quad 405, Adcom 555, Audiolab 8000P, other Rotel, Musical Fidelity, Bryston, ME and NAD etc.

Yes ' ; to clarify ; without going into whether the upper frequencies are audible [ a Japanese paper once described the effects of ultrasonic frequencies iirc ] sacd 1bit dsd tracks do go above 20khz

https://www.lifewire.com/super-audio-compact-discs-3134859

That said if there are any effects of dsd it may be just the high noise levels it exhibits ; most dsd was lpcm at one stage anyway and a conversion doesn't help ..

Quote

One point remains. Various listening tests have indicated that DSD files sound ‘different’. If a 192/24 file is converted to 64 fs DSD and both files are played back through the same converter, some listeners prefer the sound of the DSD file. Two aspects characterize the technical difference between the two files. First, there is some inevitable loss of signal quality after the transfer to DSD. But in view of the listening results the ‘damage’ probably falls below the hearing threshold or is euphonic. Secondly, the DSD file will have a lot more noise between 20 and 100 kHz (the exact amount depending on the D-to-A used). An example of this can be seen in fig. 6 that shows the spectrum of a -60 dB tone through our AD1. This noise is inaudible to human ears but can have second order effects. For instance, the presence of the noise could influence jitter performance in some converter designs. Some have suggested that this HF noise may change the behaviour of capacitors, cables and electrical contacts. We have not done any research into this ourselves, but it should be relatively simple to set up a listening test featuring a third file: the original 192/24 file but with added HF DSD noise taken from a silent DSD recording. If the ultrasonic noise is responsible, this file should sound ‘better’ than the original 192/24 without the added noise.

http://av2day.com/2014/11/dsd-myth-a-white-paper-by-grimm-audio/

 

  

Edited by cwt
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, cwt said:

these days with sources like sacd which have very wide frequency response

Thanks so very much guys for All the Help! Greatly Appreciated!!! :) 

I am not really one for 'Digital' like "sacd" [but didn't He say 'Audiophile'???] and am very happy - except wanting a MC cart!! next too - and just sticking to vinyl for my source music. As I was thinking hard about the Stereo Amp side, I did pick up a beautiful RC-980BX Rotel Pre. All the caps inside + everything else look schmick! brand new. So I am prepared to go down the Pre/Power road. Hoping the combo of the Rotel Pre/(?)Rotel Amp be a better proposition than "mix & match"...

 I thought with reference to sacd I thought you were going to pounce on the JBL's for not being 'up' to it..??  Being in a small living space with brick walls compounds the set-up problems. It does sound pretty nice but I thought the Yamaha [love to afford a new one!] would be the Next step..???

Am going to check some of those other brands but am limited to buying second hand :( but am saving as I wait. 

I also realise some models are better (than others) even in the same brand...

Thanks again for the replies and encouragement! :) 

DogBox     

Edited by DogBox
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ya Grumpy! Have my eye on one [RB-1080] and for the price, I'm not sure if I will do any better..?.?? I will admit though

I haven't scoured the For Sale here..?

I see on You equipment: Sherbourn... I had never heard of them until last night.. Alright are they?

Many Thanks to All for the inspiring Help! :thumb:  

Kind Regards,

DogBox [steve]

Edited by DogBox
Forgot my name..???
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have had both Rotels and the 1080 hits it's sweet spot when the volume gets above 'background' volume where it all smooths out and gets tighter. At low volume it sounds like the 1070.

 

SHERBOURN ( I think Emotiva took them over )

 

were a US company and l bought this pre from a SNA member because it had all the things l wanted in a pre amp ( HT bypass ' trigger output' xlr connection'  etc ) and it was a good price AND it sounds great  -

Edited by Grumpy
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites



34 minutes ago, Grumpy said:

AND it sounds great  -

Well, that's gotta be the buying point! 

Can't say I had ever heard of Emotiva before a few months back. Relatively new I take it. Don't they love Blue LED's!!!  I think that cooked it for me; looks a bit cheap when overdone.. 

Off to the For Sales...! Appreciate the info, Thanks Grumpy! 

DogBox

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DogBox said:

Well, that's gotta be the buying point! 

Can't say I had ever heard of Emotiva before a few months back. Relatively new I take it. Don't they love Blue LED's!!!  I think that cooked it for me; looks a bit cheap when overdone.. 

Off to the For Sales...! Appreciate the info, Thanks Grumpy! 

DogBox

Just a bit of sherbourne background . Emotiva and them were/are both owned by Dan Laufman . Sherbourne are no longer ; I bought a pt7030 pre pro on runout  and has very nice sound quality [its a spare atm] :) Both of them have been around for decades ; just low profile - emo was web based sales only and sherbourne distribution was targeted at system designers - Crestron etc options and 12v trigger's up the wazoo :)

For something from Emo [when they make the next batch that is :whistle: ] with much fewer dimmable leds ; a pt100 covers mm/mc and analogue inputs and is a wide bandwidth design ;   https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/pt-100  Good luck

Edited by cwt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hi DogBox,

 

I am coming late to the conversation, but being a long term Rotel aficionado I like the Rotel power amps matched with JBL typically in most rooms as the lean(ish) analytical sound and tight bass suits the classic JBL speaker sound.  Of course the room is always the final arbiter. At this actual moment as I write I am listening to some 4" full range horn loaded speakers  (home built) powered by an RB1080. Van the man sounds delightful!

 

Cheers

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/4/2019 at 4:18 PM, Linolad said:

Hi DogBox,

 

I am coming late to the conversation...  

 

Cheers

 

Never mind, I suppose I can update now. 'Eventually!' went ahead and got the Rotel and also built up a Graham Slee Genera Phono Preamp to go with it. Now didn't THAT turn out to be a wonderful exercise!❣️ WHAT a phono! WOW! Makes me real tempted now to ditch the Rotel RC-980BX and put the phono straight into the amp... nothing else in the signal chain... mmm! 

 Thanks for joining in Linolad! Good to hear a bit of recommendation! Never been one for full-range speakers except when I was starting out in my Speaker Building passion when I was 11yrs. And yes, my room isn't really big enough to let my JBL's breathe... but, what the heck! They definitely fill the room with music! and I don't have any bad reverberations. I'm in the process now of trying to make some nice interconnects and speaker cables.. Anyone had good results from the wire sold on  Aliexpress? Anyone make their own cables? Getting nice fittings isn't proving easy,..[or CHEAP! Grief!!] ☹️

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi DogBox,

 

I have never had a full range speaker before myself prior to this exercise.  It is certainly a different listening experience that i have been doing for about 8 or 9 months to date.

 

On the advice from someone I trust I tried out a variety of category cables for speakers (cat5, 6 & 7) terminated by banana plugs.  it was an interesting experience and I was expecting it to be ultra detailed and bass shy (I only used one strand per side over a 10 metre run) and I was surprised when it didn't go that way. In the end I shied away as I was continually concerned that they would break and short, particularly with other members of the family (including grandchildren) around. Currently I am using Belden double insulated 18 AWG cable (can't remember the product number) which is quite good across the audio spectrum.

 

About 20 years ago I experimented with single strand solid core electrical cable twisted pair (via a hand drill) for both speakers and interconnect cable to great effect.

 

I think everything is up for grabs in the audio world as we don't know what we don't know. Empirical research and the listening room have a huge influence on the ultimate sound we experience.  We need to move away from preconceived "sound" philosophies.

 

Note: My previous speakers were Polk RTL9's and before that Klipsch RF5 and before that Polk RM3000's  so big speakers are my history!

 

Cheers, Always enjoy the journey

 

Edited by Linolad
Link to comment
Share on other sites



Hey Wimbo, 

Thanks for the direction! A-l-t-h-o-u-g-h instead of paying someone else to have the fun of making them up, I wanted to do it! 

If I can get decent enough cable and fittings my soldering skills and cable making are up to scratch. Plus I love making them! 

Appreciate greatly your tip, Many Thanks! I may even send him a note and find out where he gets his stock from! :p 

Regards,

DogBox 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/4/2019 at 9:52 AM, Linolad said:

Hi DogBox,

 

I have never had a full range speaker before myself prior to this exercise.  It is certainly a different listening experience ...We need to move away from preconceived "sound" philosophies.....big speakers are my history!

 

Cheers, Always enjoy the journey

 

Hey Mark,

Well said! Strange sice you mentioned "full range" single speakers... My immediate thought was Fostex.. been doing it for years but another speaker has been getting a lot of attention, especially around Speaker Builders is the Frugal Horn Mk III. For a look in...

 https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/682278-frugal-horn-mk3-build-log-and-testing/ Sorry for stealing info from another Forum, but 'It's to explain what I mean'..! The choice of speaker you use is up to you but some of the more expensive numbers are getting a wonderful type of "praise"..! 

Are you into Speaker Building? 

 

DogBox

[steve]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi DogBox,

 

You do realise we have gone off topic, so if a Mod pulls us up I understand.

 

Anyway, Yes I do have a history of building speakers dating from the middle 70's through to the middle 80's or so.

 

Then I stopped until a year or so ago when I decided to not just use my wallet, but to invest myself in a building project again.

 

So I have actually built a pair of Frugalhorn Mk3's using Markaudio MP7 Enabled drivers.

 

It is certainly a different yet rewarding listening experience.

 

Cheers

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I concur. Apologies for going off topic there. Just felt the need to inform the member before I forgot as I am inclined to do and to stay 'on-topic' which I also forget to do. I don't like getting old and i'm just short of 60! Oh dear... 

DogBox

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Yeah, it ain't easy; i'm a bit of a sad case - chronic arth. + HEAVY pain meds. I play zombe most of the time... I can still solder but!  

Have they got a whinge section on this site? Might have to start one...!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi DogBox,

 

Keep your chin up,

 

At least you can contribute to this forum, sorry to hear about the heavy duty arthritis however.

 

You have my genuine sympathy.

 

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Linolad said:

You have my genuine sympathy.

Thanks man! 

I actually went to try putting my Phono straight into the amp [Rotel 1080] and it didn't sound too promising so I went back through the Pre-amp like I was. The phono I tried was the Graham Slee Genera [kit]. Just Gorgeous! 

Tried looking those Mark Audio speakers and must have spelled it wrong..(?) Couldn't find them..? Found a few others though..NICE! 

Any Drivers you might want that I might have? Mostly Vifa's you can't get any more... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi DogBox,

 

Markaudio is one word.

 

I have 63 drivers put aside for my next project (I only require 50) to make a line array from 3" peerless drivers.

 

So for the foreseeable future I won't have a requirement for other drivers!

 

Sounds like a very nice phono preamp you have, enjoy it.

 

Thanks anyway.

 

Regards  

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...
To Top