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Can of Worms Time! Audiophile Fuse Directionality


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Hi all,  

 

Ok I know... I am brave, maybe even stupid posting such a proverbial can of worms topic. And I'm sure that there will be some non believer back lash and that's fine with me. I have learnt to take it on the chin, clean the blood off with 'snake oil' and move on.

 

Anyway I was hoping to have an on topic discussion with believers such as myself as to why directionally in some brands of audiophile fuses should make the profound difference to sound that it does? I base this question on my experience with Hifi Tuning Supreme fuses and most recently (and to my ears more significantly) with Telos Quantum X2 fuses.

 

I have stopped asking myself why fuses should have the impact they do a long time ago, and I'm not 100% sure that even the manufactures have all of the answers. So instead I simply wish to pose the question of why installing a fuse in one direction can sound so different to the other direction.

 

Many thanks and please be gentle with me!

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56 minutes ago, Hifigeek said:

I have stopped asking myself why fuses should have the impact they do a long time ago, and I'm not 100% sure that even the manufactures have all of the answers. So instead I simply wish to pose the question of why installing a fuse in one direction can sound so differento the other direction.

You’ve stopped asking but you’re asking ?

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The previous owner of my power amps sold them to me with synergy black fuses. I replaced them with $0.40 Jaycar ones because they sounded better since I wasn't wincing thinking about the cost of and owning the other fuses, and sold them instead. The wincing was making it hard to enjoy the power amps. The person who bought the fuses from me asked what direction they were supposed to go in and I referred him to the synergy website. Apparently he said they sounded better one way than the other. So there you have it. Some random dude you've never heard of read somewhere on some advertising blurb that the fuses he bought from me were directional and insisted they sounded better the correct way around.

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6 hours ago, Ittaku said:

The previous owner of my power amps sold them to me with synergy black fuses. I replaced them with $0.40 Jaycar ones because they sounded better since I wasn't wincing thinking about the cost of and owning the other fuses, and sold them instead. The wincing was making it hard to enjoy the power amps. The person who bought the fuses from me asked what direction they were supposed to go in and I referred him to the synergy website. Apparently he said they sounded better one way than the other. So there you have it. Some random dude you've never heard of read somewhere on some advertising blurb that the fuses he bought from me were directional and insisted they sounded better the correct way around.

 

Aah, Con, I have not experimented with the direction my fuses are inserted ... but I only use ceramic fuses, bought from RS Components.

 

Why - a couple of decades ago (when RS had a Port Melbourne store) I was there buying 'normal' fuses and the guy behind the counter said the cops always bought ceramic fuses for their radar guns - because the normal (glass) fuses generated too much noise.

 

So ever since then I've been using ceramic fuses everywhere (if it's good enuff for the cops' radar guns ... it must be good for my hifi!  :lol: ).

 

I have quite a few values so I can lend you some ... if you want to experiment.

 

Andy

 

 

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1 hour ago, andyr said:

I have quite a few values so I can lend you some ... if you want to experiment.

After trying one of the most expensive sets of fuses money can be wasted on and not hearing a difference, I think I'll pass on any further fuse experiments... Thanks though.

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20 hours ago, Hifigeek said:

Hi all,  

 

Ok I know... I am brave, maybe even stupid posting such a proverbial can of worms topic. And I'm sure that there will be some non believer back lash and that's fine with me. I have learnt to take it on the chin, clean the blood off with 'snake oil' and move on.

 

Anyway I was hoping to have an on topic discussion with believers such as myself as to why directionally in some brands of audiophile fuses should make the profound difference to sound that it does? I base this question on my experience with Hifi Tuning Supreme fuses and most recently (and to my ears more significantly) with Telos Quantum X2 fuses.

 

I have stopped asking myself why fuses should have the impact they do a long time ago, and I'm not 100% sure that even the manufactures have all of the answers. So instead I simply wish to pose the question of why installing a fuse in one direction can sound so different to the other direction.

 

Many thanks and please be gentle with me!

If you can hear a difference then it is money well spent. I have been playing around with speaker placement lately and have found that it has made a  big difference and it’s free. 

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12 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Aah, Con, I have not experimented with the direction my fuses are inserted ... but I only use ceramic fuses, bought from RS Components.

 

Why - a couple of decades ago (when RS had a Port Melbourne store) I was there buying 'normal' fuses and the guy behind the counter said the cops always bought ceramic fuses for their radar guns - because the normal (glass) fuses generated too much noise.

 

So ever since then I've been using ceramic fuses everywhere (if it's good enuff for the cops' radar guns ... it must be good for my hifi!  :lol: ).

 

I have quite a few values so I can lend you some ... if you want to experiment.

 

Andy

 

 

I find that difficult to believe. And it seems strange that constable plod would be servicing his own technical equipment.

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3 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said:

I find that difficult to believe. And it seems strange that constable plod would be servicing his own technical equipment.

 

Well, I don't find it difficult to believe.  :tongue:  And I don't call replacing a fuse "servicing"!  :lol:

 

It seems entirely feasible to me they found they were getting too many suss readings at first, with their radar guns ... wondered why - and what they could do about it - and someone they asked, suggested ceramic fuses.

 

When the coppers found that their radar guns "read" better, the VicPol Technical Branch simply made it a matter of policy to insert ceramic fuses in all new radar guns.

 

Andy

 

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Guest Muon N'

Has anyone considered that as well as placebo influencing positive results, that the nocebo effect is just as likely to confirm a negative outcome in someone that expects a negative outcome.

 

I have no horse in this race as i don't dabble with fuses, but have no issue if others do. I just feel that if some of us will postulate that others are hearing things that are not there, the same is equality as likely in regards to an expected negative outcome.

 

Just throwing it out there for others to consider, if inclined.

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On 13/02/2019 at 11:57 AM, Hifigeek said:

So instead I simply wish to pose the question of why installing a fuse in one direction can sound so different to the other direction.

Are you looking for actual real/verified explanations? .... or for people to just guess at what might explain it?

 

By limiting the discussion to only "believers", you seem only likely to get the later.

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1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

 Not sure I understand the logic.... the circuit inside a radar gun is similar to the circuit in your audio device?

 

Let me (try to!) explain, Dave.

 

The coppers found the ceramic fuse produced less noise in their radar gun's readings.

IOW, the power line in the radar gun (after the fuse) must've been more stable.

Therefore, the power line in my hifi components will also be more stable (ie. have less noise) with a ceramic fuse.

 

Andy

 

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I think I read in a review (sorry, I've just looked and cannot find it) that Parasound have fitted ceramic fuses to their newly released JC 5 power amp. IIRC, the reviewer was obviously cautiously impressed: "I didn't think you had it in you, Parasound". Notwithstanding my observations about Parasound's choice of component quality, I think they must be "believers". I certainly don't recall orientation being mentioned!

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I fail to see how the outside envelope of a cartridge fuse can make any difference. Especially if you're talking about the difference between ceramic or glass. There are only a couple of things that can change the characteristics of a fuse, and one is the material used in the contact area of the fuse (ie end caps and fuse holder) and the type of material used in the filament/element. OK, some fuses are sand packed, but at the currents and voltages involved in audio equipment, it isn't relevant. And both ceramic and glass can be sand filled anyway.

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21 minutes ago, bob_m_54 said:

I fail to see how the outside envelope of a cartridge fuse can make any difference. Especially if you're talking about the difference between ceramic or glass. There are only a couple of things that can change the characteristics of a fuse, and one is the material used in the contact area of the fuse (ie end caps and fuse holder) and the type of material used in the filament/element. OK, some fuses are sand packed, but at the currents and voltages involved in audio equipment, it isn't relevant. And both ceramic and glass can be sand filled anyway.

You're making the mistake of letting science get in the way of audiophilia...

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1 hour ago, bob_m_54 said:

I fail to see how the outside envelope of a cartridge fuse can make any difference.

?    Of course, but the nice thing about it is we don't even have to speculate/understand.  :) 

 

We can look at the result .... and we can see changes (or not) in the signal/performance.    If we want to we can observe changes so small they are almost science-fiction.    Literally thousands (or even millions) of times smaller than what the speaker (or your ear, if the speaker did move) will respond to.

 

If these things did alter the performance of the electronics at all (or at least in a way which wasn't insignificant), then it would be clearly quantified.

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2 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

?    Of course, but the nice thing about it is we don't even have to speculate/understand.  :) 

 

We can look at the result .... and we can see changes (or not) in the signal/performance.    If we want to we can observe changes so small they are almost science-fiction.    Literally thousands (or even millions) of times smaller than what the speaker (or your ear, if the speaker did move) will respond to.

 

If these things did alter the performance of the electronics at all (or at least in a way which wasn't insignificant), then it would be clearly quantified.

Would you kindly provide us with some of the results you are referring too?

Also details by what means those results were come by.

 

We might otherwise have to assume that your statement is an unqualified opinion only.

 

I for one would be interested as there is a lot of talk of how everything can be measured but hardly any evidence is ever provided.

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