Shondek Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) Hi guys, I'm new here and to the digital world in general. I've just put together a streamer comprising of a giga something motherboard, the name escapes me, amongst other things like ram etc and an ESI DAC. I've always refrained from getting into the digital streamer world as every time I demoed the different levels mainly Linn it seemed like an amplifier upgrade rather than a source upgrade. So I'm wondering is the most important part of the chain still the hardware that's closest to the software ie record deck CD player. So in this case it would be the server rather than the client. Your views would be extremely helpful, many thanks Leo Edited February 10, 2019 by Shondek
kukynas Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 The most important part is the one prior and directly connected to your DAC 1
Guest Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 It is the music chain, both hardware and software, which all contribute to audio quality (AQ). NAS -> link -> streamer -> link -> DAC To answer your question, I would focus on the streamer to DAC side first. Noise from power supplies in the chain has probably the biggest influence on AQ, so suggest getting better PSU for streamer, DAC. An easy path to experiment is to try different software on the streamer. Another thing to explore is the link between streamer and DAC.
skermajo Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) I'm going to second the streamer and DAC side being the most important. I've tried a lot of combinations of a couple of different streamers/dacs and digital sources including: USB drive directly plugged into the streamer UPnP streamed over the network Roon streamed over the network To my ears the biggest difference, by a very very wide margin, is the streamer/dac. What surprised me most in my listening is how much the streamer software affected the sound. The software running on the streamer can alter the sound by a lot more than I would have thought. Edited February 10, 2019 by skermajo clarification 1
Shondek Posted February 11, 2019 Author Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) Thanks for your replies guys that's very interesting. I've heard it said the DAC plays a similar role to a cartridge on a turntable, converting information to analogue, and I know if you spend a large amount of cash on a cartridge with a sub standard TT it will initially sound impressive but musically it might not necessarily keep you engaged.What are your thoughts on that. Do you have a hierarchy of importance, my guess would be mobo hard drive software and least of all dac. Have any of you experimented with different server software /hardware combos to come to these conclusions? Edited February 11, 2019 by Shondek
Guest Posted February 11, 2019 Posted February 11, 2019 It gets complicated quickly because of the many options and combinations available in the music chain. It is how well the components work together that determine the overall AQ. Suggest focussing on the streamer first. Are you prepared to invest in upgraded hardware and power supplies? Do a search of dedicated music based computers to see how much effort and $ is put in to reduce noise. Also have a look at music software which can range from free to hundreds of dollars. A dedicated network streamer will perform better (see my primer). I suspect it is to early for you, especially since you have just put together your PC based streamer but I put in the link to expose you to a complicated world! For some, it is too complex but others relish the challenge!
Shondek Posted February 13, 2019 Author Posted February 13, 2019 On 11/02/2019 at 1:04 PM, Snoopy8 said: It gets complicated quickly because of the many options and combinations available in the music chain. It is how well the components work together that determine the overall AQ. Suggest focussing on the streamer first. Are you prepared to invest in upgraded hardware and power supplies? Do a search of dedicated music based computers to see how much effort and $ is put in to reduce noise. Also have a look at music software which can range from free to hundreds of dollars. A dedicated network streamer will perform better (see my primer). I suspect it is to early for you, especially since you have just put together your PC based streamer but I put in the link to expose you to a complicated world! For some, it is too complex but others relish the challenge! Many many thanks Snoopy,that primer should be a sticky.. Lots of great info in there. When you say a dedicated network streamer will perform better did you mean better than music based computers. Why do you suggest working on streamer first. Do you put the same effort into server/Nas builds as you do to your streamer?
Guest Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Shondek said: Many many thanks Snoopy,that primer should be a sticky.. Lots of great info in there. When you say a dedicated network streamer will perform better did you mean better than music based computers. Why do you suggest working on streamer first. Do you put the same effort into server/Nas builds as you do to your streamer? Started with an el cheapo dedicated laptop running Foobar2000. Have a NAS to backup music, but music was stored on laptop (less complexity). Since discovered how noisy laptops, PCs were and techniques to reduce and isolate that noise. It is possible to build or buy music based computers which are quiet but decided to try a standard SMS-200 network streamer. It blew my laptop setup away. Why the streamer first? It provided the biggest jump for the dollars spent. Note that I am not using a server and resisting a push in that direction because of increased complexity. Also, my streamer is directly connected to my NAS, bypassing a noisy router.
Shondek Posted February 14, 2019 Author Posted February 14, 2019 6 hours ago, Snoopy8 said: Started with an el cheapo dedicated laptop running Foobar2000. Have a NAS to backup music, but music was stored on laptop (less complexity). Since discovered how noisy laptops, PCs were and techniques to reduce and isolate that noise. It is possible to build or buy music based computers which are quiet but decided to try a standard SMS-200 network streamer. It blew my laptop setup away. Why the streamer first? It provided the biggest jump for the dollars spent. Note that I am not using a server and resisting a push in that direction because of increased complexity. Also, my streamer is directly connected to my NAS, bypassing a noisy router. Good progress there Snoooy8, have you tried using a router with a switch as some people have found this gives improved musicality over direct link, though sound is slightly worse
Guest Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 57 minutes ago, Shondek said: Good progress there Snoooy8, have you tried using a router with a switch as some people have found this gives improved musicality over direct link, though sound is slightly worse There are expensive solutions for including audiophile routers, power supplies, master clocks etc. into the music chain. Decided enough was enough and chose to stick with a direct link between the SMS-200 and the NAS which has 2 Ethernet ports (some software config required). IF (still a big if) I choose to upgrade, I would look for a high end single box solution with a streamer, SSD and DAC with internal master clock and linear power supply to simplify everything and reduce all the noise and jitter in the music chain. A very expensive upgrade requiring a loss on expensive current gear. Hence the hesitation... Sorry, I have digressed a bit but hopefully I have given you some (expensive $$$) ideas on your next steps. Best wishes on your journey, please post if you have more questions.
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted February 14, 2019 Volunteer Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) On 11/02/2019 at 5:09 AM, Shondek said: ..... it seemed like an amplifier upgrade rather than a source upgrade I’m not sure what you mean by this. Can you let us know? Edited February 14, 2019 by Sir Sanders Zingmore 1
Shondek Posted February 14, 2019 Author Posted February 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said: There are expensive solutions for including audiophile routers, power supplies, master clocks etc. into the music chain. Decided enough was enough and chose to stick with a direct link between the SMS-200 and the NAS which has 2 Ethernet ports (some software config required). IF (still a big if) I choose to upgrade, I would look for a high end single box solution with a streamer, SSD and DAC with internal master clock and linear power supply to simplify everything and reduce all the noise and jitter in the music chain. A very expensive upgrade requiring a loss on expensive current gear. Hence the hesitation... Sorry, I have digressed a bit but hopefully I have given you some (expensive $$$) ideas on your next steps. Best wishes on your journey, please post if you have more questions. I hear you S8 but just because there are expensive so called Hifi peripherals out there it doesn't necessarily mean they sound good or does one have to buy them I use a very musical sounding netgear switch which sounds better than without it. Thanks very much for showing me the direction I should be going it has been very enlightening.
Shondek Posted February 14, 2019 Author Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Sir Sanders Zingmore said: I’m not sure what you mean by this. Can you let us know? To my ears when you improve an amplifier the improvements seems to more sound based, ie better bass treble stereo imaging etc and it tends to have a more impressive sound. In the case of a genuine source upgrade it usually doesn't seem that much more impressive but music seems less hurried with more space between the notes and melodies are much easier to follow with better insight into the musicians intent.So for me the further away from the music the upgrade is the more it alters the sound (eg speakers) and the closer the more it improves the musical qualities. My friend built a nas/server to same spec as the streamer I built and he was surprised by the improvement it brought. Flac rips he thought were badly recorded/mastered now sounded enjoyable to listen to even though the sound(bass, treble etc) hadn't improved that much. Very interesting times ahead. Ps This streamer in some ways sounds musically better than Linn Akurate DS 1 Edited February 14, 2019 by Shondek
Guest Posted February 14, 2019 Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Shondek said: I use a very musical sounding netgear switch which sounds better than without it. Using Ethernet in music chain can isolate noise, improve AQ and your own experience with the switch supports this. The same isolation principle led to the development of the network streamer. However, noise from routers, their power supply and timing issues with Ethernet created a different set of problems, hence the expensive gear mentioned previously. Unfortunately, it never stops in the quest for the ultimate AQ. You have to decide what your limit is and when to stop! For some, it never stops . ..
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