brabs Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 The behringer I had was passive cooled no fan. A500 was the model. But didn’t have dsp. i have read that the inukes are good with the fan mod. I’d that the one your looking at? Just finding out there infrasonic capabilities is the hard job 1
Mobe1969 Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, brabs said: The behringer I had was passive cooled no fan. A500 was the model. But didn’t have dsp. i have read that the inukes are good with the fan mod. I’d that the one your looking at? Just finding out there infrasonic capabilities is the hard job Did the A500 have a standard low pass filter for subwoofer or did you need a separate filter? Thanks. Yes the newer version of the inuke, the NX1000D. Looks more like a traditional amp too not like the inuke. It is as far as I'm aware it is the inuke with a nicer body. The crowson thread at AVS talks quite a bit on the inuke, but not much on the new ones. As you said though the lack of standby mode, and no remote is a downside. It means I'd have to get up if I needed to adjust the volume...
brabs Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said: Did the A500 have a standard low pass filter for subwoofer or did you need a separate filter? Thanks. Yes the newer version of the inuke, the NX1000D. Looks more like a traditional amp too not like the inuke. It is as far as I'm aware it is the inuke with a nicer body. The crowson thread at AVS talks quite a bit on the inuke, but not much on the new ones. As you said though the lack of standby mode, and no remote is a downside. It means I'd have to get up if I needed to adjust the volume... No filters like that, I used the sub2 out from my processor which sends the same signal as my sub. Up to 80hz, to me the effect still blends in well. I used to set the gain on the a500 to about 70%ish and use the sub2 trim on the processor to adjust the volume. It’s important to know the correct levels to avoid clipping the amp and destroying the crowsons. the setup with the rotel is different as there is no gain knob and it triggered. 1
Mobe1969 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, brabs said: No filters like that, I used the sub2 out from my processor which sends the same signal as my sub. Up to 80hz, to me the effect still blends in well. I used to set the gain on the a500 to about 70%ish and use the sub2 trim on the processor to adjust the volume. It’s important to know the correct levels to avoid clipping the amp and destroying the crowsons. the setup with the rotel is different as there is no gain knob and it triggered. It may end up just being the Crowson is the simplest cleanest option if you don't have existing HW to spare. Noiseless, remote, standby. Just it only has a low pass down to 40. I could use the miniDSP (it will be coming from that anyhow, but I'm using that for BEQ in a major way so it would mean I'd have to merge the BEQ dsp xml files with the crowson output. I do have an old reciever I could possibly use. I did have a nad stereo amp from years ago, but I lent it to someone. Was such an unreliable unit too... Edited September 12, 2019 by Mobe1969
A9X Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 On 11/09/2019 at 11:40 AM, Mobe1969 said: Anyone tried these with amps other than Crowson? Yep, used them with Yamaha and currently Quest pro amps. Much cheaper than the Crowson amp. I have one on a single recliner/rocker. The distributors were very easy to work with and gave great CS. 1
Mobe1969 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, A9X said: Yep, used them with Yamaha and currently Quest pro amps. Much cheaper than the Crowson amp. I have one on a single recliner/rocker. The distributors were very easy to work with and gave great CS. Cheers. Yeah Oceanic seem great so far. Which Quest amp do you have? Something like a QA1004? Or one with DSP ?
A9X Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 QA3004 for the Crowson. I also have QA4004s for the subs. All have fan mods as they're Hoovers otherwise. I got them all cheap from a guy I know secondhand. The 4's were 5yo but had spent their lives powering speakers for holiday pantos in a shopping centre, so they probably had <100hrs use. The Yamahas would be better for home use as the fans never come on. Beware of the lower bandwidth of all pro amps as many roll off high. It's a simple single cap mod though to lower it. 1
Mobe1969 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, A9X said: QA3004 for the Crowson. I also have QA4004s for the subs. All have fan mods as they're Hoovers otherwise. I got them all cheap from a guy I know secondhand. The 4's were 5yo but had spent their lives powering speakers for holiday pantos in a shopping centre, so they probably had <100hrs use. The Yamahas would be better for home use as the fans never come on. Beware of the lower bandwidth of all pro amps as many roll off high. It's a simple single cap mod though to lower it. Nice. Do you have a DSP between it and the source? Looking at the QA3004 the low pass is only 80Hz. So you modified the amp to stop the low freq rolloff? Edited September 12, 2019 by Mobe1969
A9X Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said: Do you have a DSP between it and the source? Yep. Modified DCX2496. 2 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said: So you modified the amp to stop the low freq rolloff? Yep again. All pro amps are basically the same; an unbalancer, attenuator, series cap and a DC coupled power module. Cap changes the LF point. 1
Mobe1969 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 Sounds complicated and a lot of parts! I'm still looking for a nice subwoofer amp. Hard googling stuff like that without finding a lot of junk. I came across the Dayton ones though and maybe they will fit the bill.
brabs Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said: Sounds complicated and a lot of parts! I'm still looking for a nice subwoofer amp. Hard googling stuff like that without finding a lot of junk. I came across the Dayton ones though and maybe they will fit the bill. It funny you say that, I have one at home collecting dust. Would need a mod though, as it has internal filter at 18hz.
Mobe1969 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, brabs said: It funny you say that, I have one at home collecting dust. Would need a mod though, as it has internal filter at 18hz. Ah right so they aren't just listing that low freq, but they are actively putting a low pass filter on it? That seems nuts - especially for an amp that is listed as a subwoofer amp. Just nuts. The one you have is the SA1000? How hard would that mod be? Or do you have a link to a thread that might cover it? Or the best search terms. If you were in Brisbane I'd probably offer to buy it from you! Edited September 12, 2019 by Mobe1969
brabs Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said: Ah right so they aren't just listing that low freq, but they are actively putting a low pass filter on it? That seems nuts - especially for an amp that is listed as a subwoofer amp. Just nuts. The one you have is the SA1000? How hard would that mod be? Or do you have a link to a thread that might cover it? Or the best search terms. If you were in Brisbane I'd probably offer to buy it from you! I’m in Melbourne, it’s this one https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-hpsa1000-r-1000w-rackmount-subwoofer-amp--300-810 i have heard of these having something replaced inside to remove the filter. But I’m not diy savvy in that way. I used it with 2 passive subs, but the purchase of a further 2 means I needed more POWERRRR!! 1
A9X Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 35 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said: Sounds complicated and a lot of parts! 6 3 way active speakers, 6 subs and a Crowson. Complicated? Nah. 42 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said: I'm still looking for a nice subwoofer amp. If you're talking plate amps, most are complete crap. I know because I used to repair electronics and I had so many of them come across my desk and they couldn't be repaired affordably, I wouldn't accept them in the end. Because most small domestic subs have a fairly high tune, the amps also typically have a high high pass filter to protect the driver. Waste of time for a shaker. 1
Mobe1969 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, A9X said: 6 3 way active speakers, 6 subs and a Crowson. Complicated? Nah. If you're talking plate amps, most are complete crap. I know because I used to repair electronics and I had so many of them come across my desk and they couldn't be repaired affordably, I wouldn't accept them in the end. Because most small domestic subs have a fairly high tune, the amps also typically have a high high pass filter to protect the driver. Waste of time for a shaker. No, I was looking for a component/rack type one - The Dayton SA1000. sounded pretty good to me, until you mentioned that low frequency cutoff they put in it. Do you sell units then if you are a repairer? Would you be able to point me in the right direction for how to remove the SA1000 low frequency cutoff filter? I've been searching Google AVSForum but no luck. I might be searching the wrong terms. I do have some soldering ability, although sadly largely unpracticed (I did an electronics engineering degree 87-91, but have been just in software development... :P)
A9X Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Mobe1969 said: Do you sell units then if you are a repairer? No. My background is electronics and I repaired a couple of amps for a guy years ago and then got the rest of the business word of mouth. Became not worthwhile some years back so I stopped. 1 hour ago, Mobe1969 said: Would you be able to point me in the right direction for how to remove the SA1000 low frequency cutoff filter? Only if you find me a schematic or service manual.
Mobe1969 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, A9X said: No. My background is electronics and I repaired a couple of amps for a guy years ago and then got the rest of the business word of mouth. Became not worthwhile some years back so I stopped. Only if you find me a schematic or service manual. No worries. I thought from what you were saying you knew how. Edit: looking at the manual, the SA1000 might be of. That 18hz filter is controlled by a switch on the back. "Subsonic Filter Selects a subsonic filter with -3dB @ 18Hz, Q=.8. Allows the user to remove the subsonic information from the signal and tighten the low end response of some subwoofer systems" Edited September 12, 2019 by Mobe1969
Mobe1969 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 5 hours ago, brabs said: It funny you say that, I have one at home collecting dust. Would need a mod though, as it has internal filter at 18hz. BTW, this is from the manual on the SA1000. It sounds like it might fit the bill. It has a bypass. The bass boost curve is interesting but I guess not needed.
brabs Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said: BTW, this is from the manual on the SA1000. It sounds like it might fit the bill. It has a bypass. The bass boost curve is interesting but I guess not needed. The hpsa1000 doesn’t have a switch like the sa1000. But Ive read even with the switch off it still rolls off sharply at 12hz. Which that graph you posted indicates. the Crowson go flat to 1hz. So I think you really should aim for flattish to around 5hz at least. 1
A9X Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Mobe1969 said: No worries. I thought from what you were saying you knew how. I do, but not knowing the parts values to change, I can't advise without a schematic because they can vary greatly between brands and even models within a brand. When I did the Quest I had a service manual on hand. 1
Mobe1969 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 1 hour ago, brabs said: The hpsa1000 doesn’t have a switch like the sa1000. But Ive read even with the switch off it still rolls off sharply at 12hz. Which that graph you posted indicates. the Crowson go flat to 1hz. So I think you really should aim for flattish to around 5hz at least. Ok thanks. So I guess the Crowson really is the simplest option I can think of. The NX Behringers do have the roll off as well I believe. So does you Rotel go flat to 1hz?
brabs Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said: Ok thanks. So I guess the Crowson really is the simplest option I can think of. The NX Behringers do have the roll off as well I believe. So does you Rotel go flat to 1hz? I Don’t know how to test that, all I know is using a tone generator, I do get movement at 1hz. It’s like a slow pulse, there is plenty at 5hz
Mobe1969 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 BTW, I found on AVSForum about the Behringer DSP series. You can set up a low shelf filter on them to flatten it to zero. So it might still be a decent option. Originally Posted by aron7awol Alright, as promised, for those who want to flatten the iNuke response to 4Hz (+/- 0.5dB!) and only down ~1dB at 3Hz, here's a filter: LS 10Hz Q0.5 4.4dB My Croswon is en route (thanks for the Oceanic tip jeffpr). I just hadn't decided on an amp by the time I ordered it (the rep was about to leave for Cedia so I put it in). I still am tossing up on the actual Crowson though. I guess the standby is useful but not a real problem - more that I have to remember to manually switch it off... On AVSForum people have said volume control really isn't an issue as you tend to set and leave it.
brabs Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Mobe1969 said: BTW, I found on AVSForum about the Behringer DSP series. You can set up a low shelf filter on them to flatten it to zero. So it might still be a decent option. Originally Posted by aron7awol Alright, as promised, for those who want to flatten the iNuke response to 4Hz (+/- 0.5dB!) and only down ~1dB at 3Hz, here's a filter: LS 10Hz Q0.5 4.4dB My Croswon is en route (thanks for the Oceanic tip jeffpr). I just hadn't decided on an amp by the time I ordered it (the rep was about to leave for Cedia so I put it in). I still am tossing up on the actual Crowson though. I guess the standby is useful but not a real problem - more that I have to remember to manually switch it off... On AVSForum people have said volume control really isn't an issue as you tend to set and leave it. When I was using the behringer, I had one of those free smart saver plugs that they were giving away to power it on and off, it had an IR Reciever on a long cable that would detect any remote ir ( for instance it would turn on when you turned anything else on) And you could set it to stay on for a set period of time ( I set mine to 3 hrs) then it would turn off. you can have it if you like edit: I know it has 2 outlets on it, it may even work as master and slave Edited September 12, 2019 by brabs 1
Mobe1969 Posted September 12, 2019 Posted September 12, 2019 38 minutes ago, brabs said: When I was using the behringer, I had one of those free smart saver plugs that they were giving away to power it on and off, it had an IR Reciever on a long cable that would detect any remote ir ( for instance it would turn on when you turned anything else on) And you could set it to stay on for a set period of time ( I set mine to 3 hrs) then it would turn off. you can have it if you like edit: I know it has 2 outlets on it, it may even work as master and slave Nice. Yes someone on AVS mentioned using a smart power strip. To be honest I didn't even know that that was until after I saw it mentioned. I guess I've never felt the need for smart light bulbs to avoid having to use a switch when I enter and leave a room... LOL. Thinking about it though, I have no issue powering it up manually. I may initially forget to turn it off! Once I get accustomed to it, it should not be an issue. Just a wee bit inconvenient - but laziness for me is a slippery slope!!! I ended up just getting an NX3000D. I've got the RCA to XLR cables ordered as well as a recommended quiet fan (the Noctua NF-A8 PWM Premium 80mm). Given Aron7awols low shelf curve to compensate, that seems like a pretty simple option I can live with.
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