georgehifi Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 (edited) AKM seem to me to be the leader of the "non R2R" dac chip sound, this new one is said to be very good, wonder if AKM do Eval Boards like AD and TI do. https://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/detail/0054/ Cheers George Edited December 7, 2018 by georgehifi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukynas Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 (edited) Quote Engineering Samples will be available in January, 2019, and Mass Production starts from May, 2019 before we see any specs and pinout hard to judge if it's just improved 4497 or something completely new but I think this is AKM's final answer to ES9038PRO https://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4499EQ&link_id=link5073 edit: after looking at block diagram this is completely different beast, separated dual mono from input to output Edited December 7, 2018 by kukynas added comment about diagram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, kukynas said: before we see any specs There's a data sheet, if you have a look 1/3 down on my link. Cheers George Edited December 7, 2018 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukynas Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 only available to B2B users and not sure if entire technical list in pdf form like usually available to public after release date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, kukynas said: only available to B2B users Just like getting samples from TI or AD Daniel, I'm sure you know how to fill it in to make it look legit to them. Cheers George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom_made Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Missing an "E" in the title of the thread. It should be AK4499EQ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 4 hours ago, georgehifi said: AKM seem to me to be the leader of the "non R2R" dac chip sound, this new one is said to be very good It is about as "DS" as you can get, with as much oversampling as anyone has ever seen. Wouldn't have thought you'd be so keen on it. Guys using their own software modulators should have some fun with it .... although at 22mhz it is real quick dance steps. 4 hours ago, georgehifi said: wonder if AKM do Eval Boards They do, but only for the stereo version of this converter right now, AFAICT. 3 hours ago, kukynas said: before we see any specs and pinout hard to judge if it's just improved 4497 At only a quick look, I suspect this is a 'multi-die' package of something like the 4497 ..... perhaps 8 of them on on package, which would explain the lower noise (6dB) and the extra channels (4 vs 2 3 hours ago, georgehifi said: There's a data sheet, if you have a look 1/3 down on my link. The link isn't active for me? Am I looking in the wrong place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Actually, do we know the modulator is running at 22.4mhz for PCM in these DACs.... The DSD does ... and the DACs further down the list do (192khz with 128x oversampling, for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said: It is about as "DS" as you can get, with as much oversampling as anyone has ever seen. Wouldn't have thought you'd be so keen on it. I know it's DS, that's why I said: "AKM seem to me to be the leader of the "non R2R" dac chip sound" Doesn't mean I like DS or "keen on it" as you say. But others are, that's why I posted it. It would be good to see you start a thread for a change, instead of just commenting on everyone else's all the time. Edited December 8, 2018 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 It's getting tiring, you two. Put each other on ignore please. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 Great Marc How do I do that? Cheers George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 1 minute ago, georgehifi said: Great Marc How do I do that? Got it, in my settings. Cheers George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, georgehifi said: I know it's DS Yeah, I got that..... just that this is "extremely DS".... By the logic you were using in the other thread, this "more processing" would make it worse, not better, than other DS DACs. The 4499EQ does have extremely low in band noise, and very very! good DNR..... Waaay beyond what anyone should expect to benefit from in a playback system given the highest and lowest levels you can hear. I think that's the "better numbers" trap... and why R2R-like DACs are totally fine. Where their specs look worse, it's just not audible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, Marc said: Put each other on ignore please. Absolutely not. George made some comments in another thread about the relative strengths of different approaches to a DS modulator .... and they're obviously very relevant here given how this AKM DAC works. It's a huge amount of food-for-thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, kukynas said: before we see any specs and pinout hard to judge if it's just improved 4497 Registered and got this block diagram with pinout out of them, but no data sheet or evaluation boards are available yet. Looks to have 4 x balanced outputs, it's a quad, and all are current outputs so you'll need your own I/V stages. Cheers George Edited December 8, 2018 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, georgehifi said: Registered and got this block diagram with pinout out of them, but no data sheet or evaluation boards are available yet. Looks to have 4 x balanced outputs, it's a quad, and all are current outputs so you'll need your own I/V stages. They are also making a voltage output version of this IC .... if people like to feed the output stage that way. PS - Didn't need to register to see that block diagram .... and I did mention earlier it was the 4 channel version. Edited December 8, 2018 by davewantsmoore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rand129678 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 6 hours ago, davewantsmoore said: Actually, do we know the modulator is running at 22.4mhz for PCM in these DACs.... The DSD does ... and the DACs further down the list do (192khz with 128x oversampling, for example). Hi Dave, how do we know this DAC chip up-samples all PCM sample rates up to 22MHz (DSD512)? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 11 minutes ago, Music2496 said: Hi Dave, how do we know this DAC chip up-samples all PCM sample rates up to 22MHz (DSD512)? That was why I made the last comment.... they haven't explicitly said. The clock rate is there.... and other parts have 128x oversampling .... and in the other verita dac implementation guides, AKM are always favouring using the largest amount of oversampling automatically (and warning about degraded performance otherwise). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenelectro Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 So they finally ditched the switched capacitor, CMOS opamp output of the 4497 etc and went current OP ..... yaaaaay! There were whisperings over at DIYA quite some time ago that this was their way forward. And it doesn't have that stupid internal ASRC / 100MHz clocking of the Sabre. I hope it's a true high impedance, current OP DAC, as opposed to the usual hundreds of switched unity weighted resistors = very low OP Z in mono mode (Sabre) I'm excited! T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, zenelectro said: I'm excited! Watch that heart Terry. BTW why quad? seems a silly figure. Not stereo not SR, maybe they want have the option to parallel two ??? Cheers George Edited December 9, 2018 by georgehifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenelectro Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 This is the first of a portfolio, you can be sure. You can also be sure there will be an 8 ch version which will find it's way to Pro Audio apps. I imagine 140 DR was the target to match Sabre and it took 4 channels to do it.... possibly? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 On 09/12/2018 at 1:27 PM, zenelectro said: it took 4 channels to do it.... possibly? It wouldn't surprise if this (like sabre reference parts) this is an 8 channel DAC .... which is just using 2 DACs per channel to get the 4 channels in the 4499EQ .... and that they'll release a version with 8 channels exposed ... and a stereo version (4 out of the 8 for each side). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewantsmoore Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 On 09/12/2018 at 11:34 AM, zenelectro said: So they finally ditched the switched capacitor, CMOS opamp output of the 4497 etc and went current OP ..... yaaaaay! I read somewhere (lost the link now) that they'd be doing both current and voltage output versions of most parts moving forward .... but it could have slightly been lost in translation (ie. probably more like ..... the future is our new arch, but don't worry we won't drop old parts too quickly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gieseler Audio Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Sample chips now ordered. ETA January 2019 so I guess I better think about laying out a prototype PCB. Also time to brush up on I/V output stages. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgehifi Posted December 19, 2018 Author Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) On 18/12/2018 at 2:52 PM, Gieseler Audio said: Also time to brush up on I/V output stages. I couldn't find, how much current the outputs on it have, but if high enough, maybe a simple resistor I/V stage could be the order of the day. If not I got some really great sounds using stacked (to lower input impedance) AD844's (with no feedback) as an I/V stage, don't use it's output buffer though, come off pin5 to a genuine OPA627, if you want to stay chip based. https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/227677-using-ad844.html Cheers George Edited December 19, 2018 by georgehifi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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