Dolby ATMOS . The price of admission

[powerinnumbers]

One extra feature. 5 thousand bucks!!!

That's the ridiculous price tag I have come to realise for my own circumstance in order to add Dolby and DTS 3D audio.

It's out of the question and it makes me pretty unhappy that I have to force myself to ignore the want. Sure, if I was a high income earner I'd be dedicated to spend that and maybe even more - because I want it!! Alas, my family deserve me to spend the money on them and not another set of home theatre upgrades.

Now let me explain why I put a 5 grand price on this. Before hand though, I might just add that I have ZERO interest in adding Dolby Vision, HDMI 2.1, HDCP 2.2 video switching features, am totally happy feeding HDMI cables to the TV with the video and one HDMI from the SONY X800 to the pre-amp for audio as I currently do with just one toslink coming back from the TV digital output when using Foxtel, Chromecast or inbuilt TV apps. I know I will get these extra benefits with any new components but it's not a value to me I would choose to pay extra for because we like having just the TV on from time to time ya know, don't need 1000W to watch TV.

I currently run 7.1 with all VAF speakers and have an old but high quality Integra pre-amp DCH 9.9 , 1x Yamaha receiver ( RX-V1) used for 5 ch power and 1 x Yamaha (RX-V3000) for surround back power, so I do not wish to spend money and go backwards on quality, there's the biggest problem. How do I upgrade just one feature for a fair price without going backwards.

Sure, I could get a Black Friday special 7.2 ch AV receiver for maybe a grand and run 5.1.2 ( boring) and there's my ATMOS> No thanks, those entry level or even mid level units are a step backwards in power and quality of power. What really upsets me is that these low to mid tier units do not have pre-outs OR if they do have pre-outs they never have enough pre-outs. If you want 7.1.4 the manufacturers FORCE you into the very high end receiver market or the separates market and you need 3 grand plus JUST TO ADD ATMOS to an existing capable 7.1 system. Why can't they make a sub $1000 receiver with low power amps or just 7 or 9  channels but at least have 11 channel pre-outs? 

If I am going to do something I am going to do it right, that means 7.1.4 and that means my cheapest option is the Marantz SR 6013 plus my existing RX-V1 to drive at least 2 channels. ( id probably drive 5 from it ). It also means I need 2 sets of quality height speakers ( $2 k ) and accessories, 5 k all up.

I know a lot of people would say get  cheaper speakers but I don't want the new feature to be the low point, from what I have read I would not be happy with 2 height channels either and best to go 4 up top?

 

Sorry if my whining is hard to understand. I just can't play with the big boys like I was hoping to.

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by shueardm1

[Chill3]

Seriously !  - You define your "needs" and "wants" - if you think you need $2k  speakers for some added sound effects, fair enough, some of us spend more than that on a 2m pair of speaker cable, some spend that on a whole system  -  but its not "required" it  is at "want".  

 

You have a system built around an AV pre pro, that is by definition a mid to high end system  so updating / replacement with like for like will cost.  Most low to mid range AV receivers have no, or reduced, pre outs because 99% of owners will never use them. 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Chill3

[minireza]

No one is forcing you to upgrade. If you are happy with what you have currently, leave it that way.

 

If ATMOS is a must have feature for you, do what I did; purchase the Yamaha RX-A 3080 AVR Receiver (11 channel Pre-out decoding, 9 channels amplied internally). The Receiver is a brand new model, and cost me less than $2,500 for the unit itself. I also bought Paradigm Pro Height Channels (4 in total for less than $1,300); they run same tweeter as the prestige series in my surround channels so are a good match. You can use your current Yamaha AMP to power some of the channels, and let the AVR do the rest.

 

So for less than $4K, you have a great receiver and surely you can get roof speakers for less than 2K (I certainly did).

 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by minireza

[joz]

Yea hard keeping up with the Jones’

 

just re adjust your expectations to meet your budget.

[Kensell21]

Yea hard keeping up with the Jones’
 
just re adjust your expectations to meet your budget.

Now, now.. leave me out of it.. [emoji4].

[Neilsy]

I would also approach a reseller and ensure you get a demo of some movies with only the atmos speakers enabled.

Unless the receiver is doing upmixing and actual object based decoding all the set-up can actually ending being is more channels that only see a sound when signal is sent to them.

[powerinnumbers]

On ‎22‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 9:49 AM, Chill3 said:

Seriously !  - You define your "needs" and "wants" -

etc etc

 

I don't really see a point you're trying to make other than you think I should shutup. 

[powerinnumbers]

On ‎22‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:24 PM, minireza said:

No one is forcing you to upgrade. If you are happy with what you have currently, leave it that way.

I know. I wasn't after money

 

On ‎22‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:24 PM, minireza said:

If ATMOS is a must have feature for you, do what I did; purchase the Yamaha RX-A 3080 AVR Receiver

Ill keep my eyes on this model but I probably prefer a pre-pro 

 

On ‎22‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:24 PM, minireza said:

surely you can get roof speakers for less than 2K (I certainly did).

I could but would it be balanced or cheap that is ( my ) question to answer I guess

 

[powerinnumbers]

On ‎22‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:34 PM, joz said:

just re adjust your expectations to meet your budget.

That means going backwards in audio quality that's my whole point. You enter in the game with a higher end pre-pro than an AV Receiver and you end up stuck, having huge upgrade costs or going backwards.

It's a statement people, I am not complaining to you like the world owes me something

[audible1]

I have set my room for Atmos. 

 

The more 4K blue ray titles I have bought  and watched, the more I am convinced it is a big step up in sound quality.

 

It does take some significant effort and time to set up

 

 

[betty boop]

It is to me THE single best update have done on my setup. adding gains on ALL material native 3D audio (atomos, dts-x, auro3D) abd off ALL sources DVD yes even DVD, fta tv, blu-Ray, uhd blu-ray, streaming Netflix and prime.

 

it it took significant research and experience of many systems for me though, and about 2years of planning saving buying off thing here and there as could afford.  

 

Installation also took some thinking and planning, abd even then when came to crunch had to think on my feet.

 

There are challenges in implementing a system for 3D audio, considerable cost, challenges of what’s possible in rooms and actually making happen

 

all that said if doing a new system in a new room it’s not much more in scheme of things, in cost or complexity or in installation. Also on other hand if already have a system capable just adding two/4 speakers using power already have in avr or adding an affordable amp to drive two/4 more speakers might be a relatively easy step for you ... and possibly as was for me ... one of the best things you have done to take system to another level ... literally plus adding a significant level of enjoyment factor  as end result

[Chill3]

14 hours ago, shueardm1 said:

That means going backwards in audio quality that's my whole point. You enter in the game with a higher end pre-pro than an AV Receiver and you end up stuck, having huge upgrade costs or going backwards.

It's a statement people, I am not complaining to you like the world owes me something

AV Receivers  and AV Pre Pros are and all ways have been shocking investments, many people paid $10K plus for top end products only to see them made completely worthless, in a year of two, from the introduction  of new technology ( HDMI, 4K, Lossless Audio ...... )   

[betty boop]

2 hours ago, Chill3 said:

AV Receivers  and AV Pre Pros are and all ways have been shocking investments, many people paid $10K plus for top end products only to see them made completely worthless, in a year of two, from the introduction  of new technology ( HDMI, 4K, Lossless Audio ...... )   

depends... I spent thousands on a top end pre pro ....and it took me through 8 years ! and was kept unto date at cutting edge the entire time by denon. not one of the updates hard ware or software were promised from the outset .... and all hardware was done as a white glove service drop in one day pick up the next. so you  can imagine I was pretty pleased....of  course 8 years is pretty decent, it still wasn't "completely worthless" at that point but comes a point have to move on... I still got what I thought reasonable money for it on selling on so suspect not completely worthless for someone else either. 

 

my marantz processor I have had last 3 nearly 4 years. , it too got software and hardware upagrades to keep upto date so at this point in time it is still fully capable and can throw the latest and greatest at it and works a treat. I am not left wanting for anything. certainly far from "completely worthless" I would suggest  

 

what will find every model release .... in some cases its annual usually lower models will bring some fripperies... is it needed ? "top end products" tend to have a longer model run. rather than a year or two replacements to keep upto speed. 

 

major format changes tend to happen every 8-10 years think dvd, blu-ray and now uhh blu-ray

 

it isnt quite every year that what you have is completely worthless in a year to two as you describe. certainly not something I've seen

 

of course if you were not smart enough not to buy on a cusp of new format eg release of blu-ray or uhd blu-ray then yes quite possible you bought prior and anything you bought wouldn't have been fully capable. 

[Mobe1969]

I might be naive, but until someone comes out with a format with "under" speakers (eg so you can get sound moving under you), I can't see me needing to upgrade the 11 channel setup I have... The only thing in the vague horizon currently I can forsee that would make me move the AVR is something like say needing a new projector that handled IMAX enhanced.

[hakka69]

1 hour ago, Mobe1969 said:

 "under" speakers (eg so you can get sound moving under you)

http://crowsontech.com/

 

One of the best upgrades you can make to a HT system. Can be added onto pretty much any HT system, doesn't need a fancy AVR or software support.

[Irek]

In my opinion Atmos is a great invention but it requires content recorded in Dolby Atmos. Availability of Atmos movies is still very limited. Anything recorded in 5.1 or 7.1 sounds worse or weird, at least on my Yamaha AVR. It's so annoying that I am disabling ceiling speakers when not watching Atmos movies (most of the time). Also unless the cinema room is really big it doesn't make sense to have more than 2 speakers in ceiling. 

[muriwai]

I might be naive, but until someone comes out with a format with "under" speakers (eg so you can get sound moving under you), I can't see me needing to upgrade the 11 channel setup I have... The only thing in the vague horizon currently I can forsee that would make me move the AVR is something like say needing a new projector that handled IMAX enhanced.

Put some crowsons under yr seats and you will be impressed !![emoji57]

[davewantsmoore]

 

3 hours ago, Irek said:

at least on my Yamaha AVR

Most people seem to be concluding that dolby upmixing is working quite well.    I'd suspect something is up with your situation specifically.     Especially if it's 5.1/7.1 to atmos .....  I could understand if you said you didn't like stereo to full atmos, or something (more likely to be you just don't like it, etc.)

 

.... but I reckon if 7.1 upmixed to atmos sounds weird (or significantly worse), then there's a problem.

[Irek]

12 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

 

Most people seem to be concluding that dolby upmixing is working quite well.    I'd suspect something is up with your situation specifically.     Especially if it's 5.1/7.1 to atmos .....  I could understand if you said you didn't like stereo to full atmos, or something (more likely to be you just don't like it, etc.)

 

.... but I reckon if 7.1 upmixed to atmos sounds weird (or significantly worse), then there's a problem.

My system is 5.0.2

[davewantsmoore]

Sure... or 7.1 mixes to 5.0.2 .... should work well.   Obvious yuck/strange is maybe something going wrong somewhere.   I don't have a lot of experience with YAPO, so not sure of any easy suggestions.

[cwt]

Its well to remember that the object codecs shouldn't be singled out by themselves as they go hand in hand these days with UHD playback... The vast majority of atmos/dts-x disca are UHD and this requires hdmi 2.0a and maybe a UHD capable display.. It follows with a new hdmi protocol just around the corner its wise to look at the whole ecosystem when determining how much to outlay on the pre pro as its more than atmos that should be foremost in your mind..

 

There are solutions that handle pcb upgrades which make sense in the current environment . Its also giving you better dsp upmixers than the older algorithms and theres a lot of bd;s that are compatible.  my 2.0c

Yeah another alternative from the US   ; some butt kickers and a cheap pro amp to drive them if your on a budget ;  https://www.pagnianimports.com.au/buttkicker-products.html  Both companies are great bang for buck.

[betty boop]

5 minutes ago, Irek said:

My system is 5.0.2

I dont know your yamaha AVR irek, but I would specifically check that it is infact upmixing non atmos stuff eg dolby digital or truehd base track to "dolby surround" or just dts/dts-hdma with dts-neural X as I mentioned it is to the benefit of ALL material and works effectively well. in my experience anyways. a great test is mr & mrs smith that scene where brad is on the roof of the car. this is a blu-ray with just a dts-hdma track absolutely amazing how it decodes to have brad struggling around on top of that roof !  right above you ! check it out if have the disc  

[davewantsmoore]

7 minutes ago, cwt said:

It follows with a new hdmi protocol just around the corner its wise to look at the whole ecosystem when determining how much to outlay on the pre pro as its more than atmos that should be foremost in your mind..

If you want really long term UHD video support then it's 2.2 you need to wait for, as this supports all the resolutions (8K) in the UHD standard.

 

[cwt]

4 hours ago, Irek said:

In my opinion Atmos is a great invention but it requires content recorded in Dolby Atmos. Availability of Atmos movies is still very limited. Anything recorded in 5.1 or 7.1 sounds worse or weird, at least on my Yamaha AVR. It's so annoying that I am disabling ceiling speakers when not watching Atmos movies (most of the time). Also unless the cinema room is really big it doesn't make sense to have more than 2 speakers in ceiling. 

When you ran YPAO did you use the full xyz axis 4 point microphones on the trapezoid thingo ? The upper echelon yammies have  64bit hd3 processing which is enough to effect the ceilings as well as the bed channels  Its very easy to just use the 1 point and skip the advanced section I found , I quite liked dts neural and DSU when upmixing 5.1/7,1 to 7.1.4 depending on the track . Hope it sorts itself ; not like we don't have heaps of dsp modes 

[cwt]

16 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

If you want really long term UHD video support then it's 2.2 you need to wait for, as this supports all the resolutions (8K) in the UHD standard.

 

I look at it this way Dave ; when Hollywood starts filming in 8k and/or I need a massive projector screen to discern;  4k will suffice  We have enough flavours of HDR now and 2.0b covers them all even HLG if it turns up ..More important than resolution . Ile have a RMC1/2 next year and no worries about its hdmi upgrades whenever they eventuate due to hdmi pcb replacement ; E-ARC and VSS gaming is all that interests me - even slightly