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My C7 from JB came in a small private courier van but was upright and the delivery guy asked me to check the “tilt sensors” attached to the box to confirm that it had not been laid on one side or angl

Not many people will highlight this in there OLED comparisons but the LG has the best operating system of any TV on the market and not by a small margin but a country mile.The PQ difference between th

You are not adding a lot to the discussion qwertyqaz.

Awesomeness... looking fwd to that. . . instead of wall mounting our tv's. . we can just use blu tack to hold them in place..lol...

:lol:

Easier than screws hey...

It may not be that long before whole walls could be screens... reminds me of "Total Recall" somehow. ^_^

Interesting prospect though, it could mean days are numbered for projection systems.

JSmith :ninja:

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Sony has been working on this technology for years and still it hasn't got past the size of a tea towel.

Whatever happened to their Scanning laser projector ? That technology was much more viable.

The name of the game is....marketing, the capabilities of the product is secondary to that, remember the HD DVD and Blu-ray shamozzle. It was aggressive marketing that killed HD DVD, not Blu-ray as a product.

OLed does have many desirable attributes but first it must be of a marketable size to compete, and on price, otherwise it may as well remain a curiosity. Who knows ? One day it may adorn our fridges and such but the reality may be more futuristic than we would hope.

C.M

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Sony has been working on this technology for years and still it hasn't got past the size of a tea towel.

Whatever happened to their Scanning laser projector ? That technology was much more viable.

The name of the game is....marketing, the capabilities of the product is secondary to that, remember the HD DVD and Blu-ray shamozzle. It was aggressive marketing that killed HD DVD, not Blu-ray as a product.

OLed does have many desirable attributes but first it must be of a marketable size to compete, and on price, otherwise it may as well remain a curiosity. Who knows ? One day it may adorn our fridges and such but the reality may be more futuristic than we would hope.

C.M

Well it seems LG are releasing a 31" OLED panel this year, although it will be $9000 to start I'm sure prices will drop and sizes increase on a similar scale to LCD and Plasma panels...

As for size it seems there is a 55" in the pipeline, along with Samsung investing $4.8 billion on OLED alone, and LG $18.2 billion, a decent part of which will be on 3D OLED displays. With all due respect it seems that this is alot of investment for something that is "futuristic", yet may be here in next few years in a decent size at least.

Quote;

"Samsung says that they will invest 5.4 trillion won ($4.8 billion) on OLED factories this year."

"A couple of months ago there were reports that Samsung plans a Gen-8 pilot line for OLED TVs that will produce 4000 55" OLED TVs monthly. Perhaps Samsung will indeed build this plant during 2011."

JSmith :ninja:

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Well it seems LG are releasing a 31" OLED panel this year, although it will be $9000 to start I'm sure prices will drop and sizes increase on a similar scale to LCD and Plasma panels...

As for size it seems there is a 55" in the pipeline, along with Samsung investing $4.8 billion on OLED alone, and LG $18.2 billion, a decent part of which will be on 3D OLED displays. With all due respect it seems that this is alot of investment for something that is "futuristic", yet may be here in next few years in a decent size at least.

Quote;

"Samsung says that they will invest 5.4 trillion won ($4.8 billion) on OLED factories this year."

"A couple of months ago there were reports that Samsung plans a Gen-8 pilot line for OLED TVs that will produce 4000 55" OLED TVs monthly. Perhaps Samsung will indeed build this plant during 2011."

JSmith :ninja:

Well I am very surprised to hear that, I was under the impression that most companies had dropped OLED some time ago because of the limited lifespan of the organic materials. Obviously they have overcome such problems if such a large investment is taking place.

But to be honest, $9000 for a 31" OLED panel is way to 'futuristic' for me, even at $900.

C.M

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LOL at the optimism and how this is supposed to be a new development. Looks like very little has changed on the OLED scene since 2006

http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/rollabl...splays-2006029/

I never said the roll down/flexible aspect was new or OLED's, simply that alot more investment is going into OLED screens in general now and that there is alot more development in relation to cost. Fair to say that these companies have not invested anywhere near this amount in the past on OLED screens, however they have had to justify all their investment in LCD and plasma first... Of course they will all still push LCD and plasma for some time, but a new screen type entrant into the maket would be welcome IMO. Read all the links provided for more info on current investment plans for OLED.

JSmith :ninja:

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I really did think SED had a chance but with the current prices on Plasma and LED there is no way a new display technology is ever going to make a dint in the marketplace, let alone OLED with its miniscule screen sizes.

C.M

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I really did think SED had a chance but with the current prices on Plasma and LED there is no way a new display technology is ever going to make a dint in the marketplace, let alone OLED with its miniscule screen sizes.

C.M

Yes SED looked promising at one point, it's a damb shame it won't be developed into a commercial sucess.

As for OLED I guess it depends on Sony, Samsung, LG etc. to continue to explore these new ways to make OLED screens on the cheap, something which was discussed briefly in the first article... an inkjet type process. Surely with this type of heavy investment in OLED this year and a 31" coming out in will only be a matter of years before we see larger screens at better price points...

JSmith :ninja:

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Sony has been working on this technology for years and still it hasn't got past the size of a tea towel.

Whatever happened to their Scanning laser projector ? That technology was much more viable.

The name of the game is....marketing, the capabilities of the product is secondary to that, remember the HD DVD and Blu-ray shamozzle. It was aggressive marketing that killed HD DVD, not Blu-ray as a product.

OLed does have many desirable attributes but first it must be of a marketable size to compete, and on price, otherwise it may as well remain a curiosity. Who knows ? One day it may adorn our fridges and such but the reality may be more futuristic than we would hope.

C.M

Yeah,when Sony bailed out of LCD & Plasma R&D in the 1990's the talk in USA Technology Mags. was they had made a breakthru. with a new type of Laser display,with hindsight some think it was an OLED type technology but they have obviously run into major deadends/problems as its still not on the market and they have backflipped and invested heavily into LCD. Time will tell but i'm sure they will come up with something new to get the consumer to spend money.

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Yeah,when Sony bailed out of LCD & Plasma R&D in the 1990's the talk in USA Technology Mags. was they had made a breakthru. with a new type of Laser display,with hindsight some think it was an OLED type technology but they have obviously run into major deadends/problems as its still not on the market and they have backflipped and invested heavily into LCD. Time will tell but i'm sure they will come up with something new to get the consumer to spend money.

Laser TV is completely different to OLED apart from the laser using a diode... it certainly had promise too, however the last release of a laser TV was by Mitsubishi in 2008. The has been some developments in this area also, see here.

They will definitely find new ways for people to spend money that's for sure.

JSmith :ninja:

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  • 1 year later...

As for size it seems there is a 55" in the pipeline, along with Samsung investing $4.8 billion on OLED alone, and LG $18.2 billion, a decent part of which will be on 3D OLED displays.

"Samsung says that they will invest 5.4 trillion won ($4.8 billion) on OLED factories this year."

"A couple of months ago there were reports that Samsung plans a Gen-8 pilot line for OLED TVs that will produce 4000 55" OLED TVs monthly. Perhaps Samsung will indeed build this plant during 2011."

As has been discussed, Samsung and LG are releasing 55" OLED panels this year.

Sony and Panasonic are also getting in on the action.

Quote;

"Sony Corporation (“Sony”) and Panasonic Corporation (“Panasonic”) today announced that they have signed an agreement regarding the joint development of next-generation OLED (organic light-emitting diode) panels and modules for TVs and large-sized displays."

"Also, each company plans to utilize its own strengths to develop and commercialize its own competitive, high-performance, next-generation OLED televisions and large-sized displays."

JSmith

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looks like laser tv is out of the question. I wonder if the products Sony and Panny produce are going to be able to compete with Lg and sammy. They did join the race a bit late, but considering that lg and sammy are releasing it later this year maybe they'd be able to compete in 2013.

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You are assuming OLED will be overall better than existing products, thats is FAR from established. Don't count your chickens until they have hatched, OLED could take several generations before it is truly competitive and by then something else may have come along.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Anyone can buy a Samsung OLED after they are released and copy it as much as they want, however if they ever try to sell a product that infringes Samsung's patents they will be sued out of existence.

Most of the technology is in how the panels are produced not the panels them selves.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...

http://www.oled-info.com/lg-display-announce-plans-650-million-gen-8-oled-tv-fab-will-begin-production-h1-2014

"LG Display announced today that they have decided to install a new Gen-8 OLED TV mass production line in their Paju plant, in a 706 billion Won (about $650 million) investment. LGD will start constructing the new line in Q1 2013 and mass production will begin in H1 2014.

The monthly capacity of LG's new line will be 26,000 substrates - or about 150,000 55" panels. Of course this is assuming 100% yield. LG's yields are currently very low - probably at around 30% (at best). If this remains so, the new line's capacity will be around 50,000 55" panels in a month.

OLED TV shipments estimates for 2014 range from about 200,000 (iSupply) to almost 2 million (DisplaySearch). LG themselves said last month that they expect the OLED TV market to reach around 600,000 units in 2014. Of course LG is not the only OLED TV maker, and by 2014 we hope to see OLED TVs on the market from at least Samsung, Panasonic and Sony as well."

JSmith :ninja:

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Gen-8 as in generation 8?

Whatever happened to gen-1 to gen-7? All prototypes? Wow, no wonder OLEDs are expensive :no:...

Don't forget OLED has been used in many smaller applications for some time... so no not all prototypes.

OLED screens are cheap to produce, just in large sizes they still have a high failure rate and ATM production is in a low phase. This is not the case for smaller screens.

Once production ramps up to higher levels (as discussed above) then prices will fall as supply increases.

JSmith :ninja:

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Once production ramps up to higher levels (as discussed above) then prices will fall as supply increases.

Waiting for that... Not sure how many years I have been waiting for that to happen, but I'm patient :) Hopefully this will pick up my interest in HT again :)

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Problem is OLED has very stiff competition from very cheap to produce LCD displays that are becoming available in very large sizes.

Its going to be a rough road for OLED.

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Problem is OLED has very stiff competition from very cheap to produce LCD displays that are becoming available in very large sizes.

Its going to be a rough road for OLED.

Not really... companies buy and invest in what technologies they want to sell, hence the large investment in OLED by all the major brands. The 3rd party companies that produce the panels can't do much if the major brand companies don't want to buy their panels any more... Once the production bugs are ironed out, OLED panels will be more economically viable and cheaper to produce than LCD/plasma.

JSmith :ninja:

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Not really... companies buy and invest in what technologies they want to sell, hence the large investment in OLED by all the major brands. The 3rd party companies that produce the panels can't do much if the major brand companies don't want to buy their panels any more... Once the production bugs are ironed out, OLED panels will be more economically viable and cheaper to produce than LCD/plasma.

I kindda agree with Owen on that..

it will take OLED a while before it catches up with LCD/plasma price wise. Even when yields are improved to > 90%, LCD/plasma will always be cheaper....

OLED will never be able to compete on price...

But it will compete on IQ... Some people will buy a 55" for $5k or so if there is a guarantee (different from warranty) and it will work at least 5 years (like any CE is supposed to!), and have a upgrade cycle of 3-5 years at least.

The industry need to find a model to survive on getting $5-$10k from their customers every 3-5 year cycle, not 1. 1 is too short. Only enthusiasts will upgrade that quickly, most wouldn't.

If the cycle is < 1, it doesn't make sense for the average joe/jane to dump $5-$10k. OLED will die like the kuro if they try to push technology at the pace they're doing now. And OLED is so much _better_ than the kuro!!!

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OLED will never be able to compete on price...

Whilst I appreciate your opinion, is there anything you have read to suggest this? Everything I have read suggests OLED will be very cheap to produce once production hurdles are overcome and production moves into mass... cheaper than LCD and most certainly plasma.

JSmith :ninja:

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Whilst I appreciate your opinion, is there anything you have read to suggest this? Everything I have read suggests OLED will be very cheap to produce once production hurdles are overcome and production moves into mass... cheaper than LCD and most certainly plasma.

coz LCD have a loooong head start basically... From what I have read so far - although OLED is cheap to produce, the factory themselves are expensive.

OLED panels have to factor in the cost of the new facilities. Given the head start, and the quick 1 year life cycle before things get outdated... Don't think OLED has any chance to compete on price.

Hope I'm wrong though.

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Hope I'm wrong though.

Me too, especially since the CEO's of these massive muti-nationals have made huge investments in these OLED productions plants... I doubt they'd be completely wrong. ;)

JSmith :ninja:

edit, misquote.

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Me too, especially since the CEO's of these massive muti-nationals have made huge investments in these OLED productions plants... I doubt they'd be completely wrong. ;)

You took out the word hope.. lol... Precisely due to those huge investments why OLED will never catch up on price.. ;)

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[/size]

You took out the word hope.. lol... Precisely due to those huge investments why OLED will never catch up on price.. ;)

Why would such investments be made if there was no return to be had?

Never is a bold statement... :P

JSmith :ninja:

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Why would such investments be made if there was no return to be had?

Seriously? :P

Never is a bold statement... :P

For OLED to succeed they cannot win on price. LCD/plasma can afford to win with razor sharp margins, OLED don't have that luxury. Concentrate on IQ, give it a reasonable price...

People will pay a premium as long as the timing is right...

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IMHO I expect OLED to be become commonplace in the next few years in the quality side of the market with LCD/LED for the lower end of the market. I predict that Plasma is destined to fade into obscurity when OLED takes a market share.

Whatever happened to that other technology SLED which was slated to be the killer for high quality screens.

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Major corporations like Samsung and LG invest billions on future technology and the production systems needed to produce it to remain competitive in the long term, they may not see any profit from such undertakings for 5 to 10 years.

The real issue for consumers is not if OLED will come to market but when good reliable products with a price to size/performance ratio that makes sense will be available to purchase, that would seem to be at least 3 years away at this stage in the game.

Its going to be a very tough fight in the showroom for OLED. When compared side by side with dramatically larger and cheaper LCD's customers will wonder what all the fuss is about. OLED will be just another TV with little if anything to distinguish it from the myriad of LCD's, so getting people to pay even a modest premium for an OLED set is going to be a tough ask in deed.

Today I was in my local HN and to my surprise found they have devoted over half of their floor space to 60" plus TV's. The Sharp 70" and 80", the Samsung 75" and the extremely impressive LG 84" Ultra HD where all on display along with a bunch of 65" and 60" models. No way retailers are going devote so much floor space to stock that does not sell and therefore Plasma's where pretty much absent. Against such opposition a stupidly priced 55" OLED does not stand a chance in hell. Those who want a 55" will buy an LCD for a fraction of the price and those looking for something really impressive will go for the really big LCD's for a similar price.

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Major corporations like Samsung and LG invest billions on future technology and the production systems needed to produce it to remain competitive in the long term, they may not see any profit from such undertakings for 5 to 10 years.

That may be the case, however that's not what the projections are (certainly not 10 years anyway)... my money's on the people that are paid alot of money to make such forecasts.

The real issue for consumers is not if OLED will come to market but when good reliable products with a price to size/performance ratio that makes sense will be available to purchase, that would seem to be at least 3 years away at this stage in the game.

Mate a TV that is for sale is about as far as most people go on reliability... if it's on sale they'll but it. I don't think companies will be releasing expensive products that aren't reliable (to the extent of consumer electronics). No one has said that it won't be 3 years before the OLED market takes over... who are you debating with?

When compared side by side with dramatically larger and cheaper LCD's customers will wonder what all the fuss is about. OLED will be just another TV with little if anything to distinguish it from the myriad of LCD's, so getting people to pay even a modest premium for an OLED set is going to be a tough ask in deed.

People will see a marked difference straight away... wow factor will sell them not to mention semi-enthusiasts that want the best and are happy to pay for it.

Those who want a 55" will buy an LCD for a fraction of the price and those looking for something really impressive will go for the really big LCD's for a similar price.

No one has disputed that that will be the case in the beginning... just like any other new product OLED panels will require time to mature in the market and increase in size.

Resistance is futile... :P

JSmith :ninja:

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The real issue for consumers is not if OLED will come to market but when good reliable products with a price to size/performance ratio that makes sense will be available to purchase, that would seem to be at least 3 years away at this stage in the game.

As I see it the real issue is only me and JSmith are interested in OLED.. :lol:

Today I was in my local HN and to my surprise found they have devoted over half of their floor space to 60" plus TV's. The Sharp 70" and 80", the Samsung 75" and the extremely impressive LG 84" Ultra HD where all on display along with a bunch of 65" and 60" models. No way retailers are going devote so much floor space to stock that does not sell and therefore Plasma's where pretty much absent. Against such opposition a stupidly priced 55" OLED does not stand a chance in hell. Those who want a 55" will buy an LCD for a fraction of the price and those looking for something really impressive will go for the really big LCD's for a similar price.

The purpose of displaying 100" or UHD panels in the retail floor space is to draw people to go to that area of the business. They don't expect to sell 'em, the intent is to attract crowds to go to that area..

Personally I don't care which display tech is the king of the consumer market... I do agree with you a OLED doesn't stand a chance in hell, luckily we don't live in hell.. lol...

Seriously though I hope enthusiasts or a hobbyists can at least give OLED a good shot.

My faith now lies with the consumers, and not the manufacturer (they have ****ed this up splendidly :angry:)

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IMHO I expect OLED to be become commonplace in the next few years in the quality side of the market with LCD/LED for the lower end of the market. I predict that Plasma is destined to fade into obscurity when OLED takes a market share.

Whatever happened to that other technology SLED which was slated to be the killer for high quality screens.

SED.

It's DED.

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That may be the case, however that's not what the projections are (certainly not 10 years anyway)... my money's on the people that are paid alot of money to make such forecasts.

The likes of Samsung and LG also pay people a lot of money to talk up their business prospects and projected profits to hold up their share prices. I take all of it with a grain of salt, believe it when I see it.

Mate a TV that is for sale is about as far as most people go on reliability... if it's on sale they'll but it. I don't think companies will be releasing expensive products that aren't reliable (to the extent of consumer electronics). No one has said that it won't be 3 years before the OLED market takes over... who are you debating with?

You skipped over the issue of size/performance to price ratio. When people stand in the showroom and compare OLED to LCD they wont see any value in OLED.

In 2012 we where led to believe that OLED TV"s would be on sale in 2013, now it seems its 2014 at the earliest. Could it be that OLED is not yet reliable and market ready. ;)

Do you really think OLED will "take over" in three years? They will have barely entered the market by then and market share will be tiny. It took over 20 years for LCD and Plasma to get to where they are now.

People will see a marked difference straight away... wow factor will sell them not to mention semi-enthusiasts that want the best and are happy to pay for it.

What "wow factor", in a showroom they will be just another TV, no more different then the various incarnations of LCD. Only way to make OLED look markedly different in that environmnet would be to set them up to display a wildly inaccurate picture.

Once calibrated decent displays are about 95% accurate if not better, errors that small are not reliably visible. No way OLED will be perfect so the best we can hope for is a different flavor of imperfection.

The only area where OLED stands out is in black level, and in a showroom thats irrelevant as LCD's have visibly perfect blacks in that environment already so OLED cant do better. The only time the black level advantage will be visible will be in a dimm to dark room so people wont get to see it in a showroom and few will care anyway.

If black level mattered to consumers LCD would never have been the success it undoubtedly has been. A hand full of "enthusiasts" aren't buying enough product to get manufacturing volumes up and prices down to the point where they are competitive will LCD, that will take quite some time as it did with Plasma and LCD.

SED was a technology that was supposed to be cheap to produce, was scalable to huge sizes, could be made flexible and ultra thin like a roll up projector screen. SED never got off the ground but OLED has similar potential and enough backing to make it happen, sooner or latter. The wheels of progress dont turn as fast as most of us would like.

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As I see it the real issue is only me and JSmith are interested in OLED.. :lol:

:lol:.... seems that way. I'm plenty interested in anything that will do the job better than whats currently available, but I cant get worked up over products that are still vapour ware.

The purpose of displaying 100" or UHD panels in the retail floor space is to draw people to go to that area of the business. They don't expect to sell 'em, the intent is to attract crowds to go to that area..

Maybe, but the store in question was not large and floor space was very limited. The LG was not put out on display to draw attention, it was just in a row of TV's with a 75" Samsung on one side and a 70" Sharp on the other, you had to go into the TV section to see it.

My main point is that all the largest size LCD TV's available in Oz where on display in this one store and outnumbered the 46" and smaller TV's. Its clear to me that market acceptance of large size TV's has increased markedly and there is a big push by manufacturers and/or retailers to sell them.

Seriously though I hope enthusiasts or a hobbyists can at least give OLED a good shot.

My faith now lies with the consumers, and not the manufacturer (they have ****ed this up splendidly :angry:)

Your faith may be misplaced, I suspect that the vast majority of consumers will send a loud and clear message that they are not prepared to pay a large premium for OLED. It will be a up to enthusiast types to keep OLED alive until it can be price competitive but enthusiasts have not been successful in keeping products like Kuro alive.

Thankfully the likes of Samsung and LG should have the resources to keep OLED afloat long enough for it to swim on its own and eventually deliver it's full potential, but I suspect it will take more time them some people think.

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