Onkyo New 2-channel Gear

[dantan]

It's great to see Onkyo serious about 2-channel hi-fi separates again!

http://whathifi.com/News/Onkyo-launches-ra...i-fi-separates/

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/P-3000R.html

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/M-5000R.html

Dan.

[Crazy Mike]

It's great to see Onkyo serious about 2-channel hi-fi separates again!

http://whathifi.com/News/Onkyo-launches-ra...i-fi-separates/

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/P-3000R.html

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/M-5000R.html

Dan.

They do look aesthetically pleasing. No HT bypass?

[betty boop]

It's great to see Onkyo serious about 2-channel hi-fi separates again!

http://whathifi.com/News/Onkyo-launches-ra...i-fi-separates/

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/P-3000R.html

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/M-5000R.html

Dan.

yes nice to see onkyo back in ! theyve sort had the odd 2ch stuff last few years but good to see what looks like some decent 2ch stuff.

they used to make some really nice cd plaeyrs too, some will remember them with legato link and the like. anyways hopefully a signal of more to come.

[Jliang70]

yes nice to see onkyo back in ! theyve sort had the odd 2ch stuff last few years but good to see what looks like some decent 2ch stuff.

they used to make some really nice cd plaeyrs too, some will remember them with legato link and the like. anyways hopefully a signal of more to come.

The M5000 reminds me the old M504 power amp.

[betty boop]

The M5000 reminds me the old M504 power amp.

its still on the website !

http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?class=Am...ier&m=M-504

wouldnt be surpised if the new one is a re incarnation of the model of old. like with a few brands a lot of the old stuff was pretty damn good.

[dantan]

Certainly can't see any signs of HT bypass, which would be a surprise if it certainly is the case.

I am very impressed by the fact that the 2-channel pre-amplifier weighs a hefty 12.0kg, which is about what a fully-featured A/V Surround Processor/Pre-amplifier weighs!

The 2-channel Power Amplifier weights a very hefty 23.5kg, which certainly suggests ample power supply. It has 4 x 27,000 microfarads worth of capacitance, according to Onkyo's web-site.

I would be very interested to check these units out, when and if a Perth retailer has a pair for demo purposes.

Dan.

Edited November 19, 2010 by dantan

[ttn]

Certainly can't see any signs of HT bypass, which would be a surprise if it certainly is the case.

Dan.

there's 2 pre-outs at the back.

Can use one to connect to avr/pre-pro and the other one to connect to power amp?

[betty boop]

there's 2 pre-outs at the back.

Can use one to connect to avr/pre-pro and the other one to connect to power amp?

TTN 2 pre outs cant be used for ht bypass.

what a htbypass requires is a htbypass circuit. that basically takes anything plugged in the htbypass input, eg an av pre amp and bypasses the vol/pre stage of the 2ch pre to pass straight to the power amp output. there is no mention of such a feature.

twin pre-outs are simply a duplication of the pre amp output. and can be usefull where running multiple pwr amps eg for bi-amping, or running a subwoofer as well which can be fed off the 2nd pre out. both outputs will be controlled by the vol control of the pre though, unless a htbypass circuit is employed.

[ttn]

TTN 2 pre outs cant be used for ht bypass.

what a htbypass requires is a htbypass circuit. that basically takes anything plugged in the htbypass input, eg an av pre amp and bypasses the vol/pre stage of the 2ch pre to pass straight to the power amp output. there is no mention of such a feature.

twin pre-outs are simply a duplication of the pre amp output. and can be usefull where running multiple pwr amps eg for bi-amping, or running a subwoofer as well which can be fed off the 2nd pre out. both outputs will be controlled by the vol control of the pre though, unless a htbypass circuit is employed.

thanks Al,

but would it work if i use a Y splitter from a power amp to both avr/pre-pro and pre-amp? so that i only use either stereo or HT at a time

[betty boop]

thanks Al,

but would it work if i use a Y splitter from a power amp to both avr/pre-pro and pre-amp? so that i only use either stereo or HT at a time

I wouldn't do it ttn, even if switched off, you'd still be driving the circuits of the unused pre. Doubt either pre or processor would like it's outputs driven !

Also use of splitters not really encouraged in 2ch. As very low level delicate line signals dealing with.

And really no real need for any of this as 2ch pre's with htbypass widely available at all price ranges. A huge choice these days. And let's not forget quality 2ch integrated with htbypass as well. Some real items of quality there too and also at every price range.

Even if using a pre without ht bypass there is the tried and tested method of utilizing the vol knob at a reference location eg 10 o'clock or 12 o'clock and playing the volume knob game. Check the htfaq re this in regards integrating 2ch gear with ht.

Otherwise the other way to go is 2ch power amp with twin switchable inputs. Do exist just for this purpose to hook up a couple of different pre's in combined systems.

[ttn]

I wouldn't do it ttn, even if switched off, you'd still be driving the circuits of the unused pre. Doubt either pre or processor would like it's outputs driven !

Also use of splitters not really encouraged in 2ch. As very low level delicate line signals dealing with.

And really no real need for any of this as 2ch pre's with htbypass widely available at all price ranges. A huge choice these days. And let's not forget quality 2ch integrated with htbypass as well. Some real items of quality there too and also at every price range.

Even if using a pre without ht bypass there is the tried and tested method of utilizing the vol knob at a reference location eg 10 o'clock or 12 o'clock and playing the volume knob game. Check the htfaq re this in regards integrating 2ch gear with ht.

Otherwise the other way to go is 2ch power amp with twin switchable inputs. Do exist just for this purpose to hook up a couple of different pre's in combined systems.

thanks Al, understood now but still 1 more question pls

i have 4 posts speakers (2L & 2R). Should i connect 1 post to pre-amp & the other to avr/pre-pro or join cables & connect to both pre-amp & pre-pro at the same time & still working ok?

[betty boop]

thanks Al, understood now but still 1 more question pls

i have 4 posts speakers (2L & 2R). Should i connect 1 post to pre-amp & the other to avr/pre-pro or join cables & connect to both pre-amp & pre-pro at the same time & still working ok?

Why you want to connect speakers to the pre amps ttn ?

Speakers should be connected to power amp or integrated amps speaker terminals if using them.

You probably need to list equipment your using so can give a specific response.

But if your question is just whether the twin posts should be hooked upto to separate sources. No they should be hooked upto a single source. And if have twin posts on the speakers they're just there if want to bi wire or bi amp. You dont have to do either, but Have a read in the htfaq whether want to do either.

[ttn]

Why you want to connect speakers to the pre amps ttn ?

Speakers should be connected to power amp or integrated amps speaker terminals if using them.

You probably need to list equipment your using so can give a specific response.

But if your question is just whether the twin posts should be hooked upto to separate sources. No they should be hooked upto a single source. And if have twin posts on the speakers they're just there if want to bi wire or bi amp. You dont have to do either, but Have a read in the htfaq whether want to do either.

oops, . Kept thinking pre-amp is like avr.

atm, denon 4308 do all processing, too easy.

very soon, moving into the new room, avr will connect to Elektra (bought last year). However, i want good stereo so thinking of pre-amp & 2 monoblocks and use avr for HT meaning Elektra is a waste (but if use Elektra for stereo duty, get a feeling that it is not fulfilled)

thanks Al

[betty boop]

oops, . Kept thinking pre-amp is like avr.

atm, denon 4308 do all processing, too easy.

very soon, moving into the new room, avr will connect to Elektra (bought last year). However, i want good stereo so thinking of pre-amp & 2 monoblocks and use avr for HT meaning Elektra is a waste (but if use Elektra for stereo duty, get a feeling that it is not fulfilled)

thanks Al

depends a little on the speakers re amp upgrades, because I can tell you the quality of the elektra is such its certainly not taxed by even quite power hungry speakers. and quality for music and 2ch is superb in my opinion.

the 4308 and elektra will make a very nice combo, something I ran for a little while myself. youll find the 4308 quite good 2ch wise. if can hook upto it wiht a 2930 or 3910/3930 universal player you'll find denon link the best way to go for all formats 2ch and multichannel. very decent indeed !

otherwise if going over analog yes could add a pre amp, but would run with the elektra first rather than jumping to mono blocs and all that.

[Cody]

the gear looks great but not having a processor bypass input is a massive fail in this day and age imo.

[Jliang70]

the gear looks great but not having a processor bypass input is a massive fail in this day and age imo.

They look like rehashed M304 and M504 which were not bad in their days. Remember M504/M304 were released i 1987 and that is 23 years for Onkyo to introduce their replacements. Just to show how much interest Onkyo has in two channel audio.

[Cody]

They look like rehashed M304 and M504 which were not bad in their days. Remember M504/M304 were released i 1987 and that is 23 years for Onkyo to introduce their replacements. Just to show how much interest Onkyo has in two channel audio.

im all for dusting off great models of old, but at least put a little effort into bringing them up to spec. it wouldnt have taken much effor to put a processor bypass input on. although sometimes i wonder if manufacturers make a point of not including it on certain models to help market them as more 2ch "purist" models (for example, high end marantz gear).

re the M304 / M504, not models that im familiar with, but coincidentally was just flicking through an old HiFi buyers guide from 1994 that my 1yo kindly found and both of them are in there. spec wise they look like different beasts to these to me:

Integra M504 - US$850

- 165w x 2 (8ohms)

- Dual mono design

- discrete outputs

- linear switching

- 4 way speaker selector

- peak power meters

- THD 0.003%, SN 120DB

- 49.5lb

Integra P-304 - US$550

- 8 inputs including MM/MC

- all discrete signal path

- in phase signal filters

- FET phono stage

- Direct tone controls

- side panels

- 2 record out selectors

- THD 0.0005%, SN 81DB

As a side point, interesting that they had 3 models of pre-pwr back then (in addition to AV pre-pro & pwr), with the flagship being the P338F pre-amp (US$1200), M588F 200w x 2 power amp (US$2000) and DX-788F CD player (US$1200), all fully balanced. some serious gear at some serious prices (remembering those are 1994 US dollars)

[dantan]

I must admit that I am very impressed with Onkyo's 'purist' approach. It certainly is a bold move not following with the latest trend of HT bypass, etc. However, by having digital inputs in the pre-amplifier, it is going along with the latest trend so they seem to be contradicting themselves in a way.

[Cody]

I must admit that I am very impressed with Onkyo's 'purist' approach. It certainly is a bold move not following with the latest trend of HT bypass, etc. However, by having digital inputs in the pre-amplifier, it is going along with the latest trend so they seem to be contradicting themselves in a way.

thanks Dan, that illustrates my point perfectly!

[betty boop]

I must admit that I am very impressed with Onkyo's 'purist' approach. It certainly is a bold move not following with the latest trend of HT bypass, etc. However, by having digital inputs in the pre-amplifier, it is going along with the latest trend so they seem to be contradicting themselves in a way.

The thing is Dan a htbypass is just a straight pass through. Input to output bypassing the whole pre stage and vol control. Couldn't be more purist than that. Plenty of high end pres come with them. supratek, audioresearch, moon, musical fidelity, krell, Conrad johnson etc etc list is endless. I think it's just laziness frankly. Or just rebirthing an old design and not bothering.

Could be they're just un aware to. The Elektra tube pre never always had a htbypass for instance. Spoke to Arthur and he couldn't understand why anyone want feature like that. But on explaining quickly understood the need and off the bat could think of couple of ways to easily implement. So could be just oversight by onkyo designers. If realized and put mind to it am sure would have the feature.

[dantan]

Could be they're just un aware to. The Elektra tube pre never always had a htbypass for instance. Spoke to Arthur and he couldn't understand why anyone want feature like that. But on explaining quickly understood the need and off the bat could think of couple of ways to easily implement. So could be just oversight by onkyo designers. If realized and put mind to it am sure would have the feature.

It certainly would be very poor performance by the RESEARCH & Development Department if they are unaware that many/most 2-channel gear now come with HT bypass.

Hope that they perform a last-minute change by having this feature, otherwise, I can see them losing some sales on their 2-channel Pre-amplifier.

Dan.

[betty boop]

a bit more info on the onkyo 2ch separates on the avland site, looks like a cd player, dac, pre amp and power amp.

http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/onkyo/1020/c7000r/c7000r.asp

http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/onkyo/1020/dac1000/dac1000.asp

http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/onkyo/1020/p3000r/p3000r.asp

http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/onkyo/1020/m5000r/m5000r.asp

quite stylish pieces, and look well made. looks like have kept cost reasonable with making them in malaysia

frankly good to see onkyo taking the effort,

[Cody]

a bit more info on the onkyo 2ch separates on the avland site, looks like a cd player, dac, pre amp and power amp.

http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/onkyo/1020/c7000r/c7000r.asp

http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/onkyo/1020/dac1000/dac1000.asp

http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/onkyo/1020/p3000r/p3000r.asp

http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/onkyo/1020/m5000r/m5000r.asp

quite stylish pieces, and look well made. looks like have kept cost reasonable with making them in malaysia

frankly good to see onkyo taking the effort,

does indeed look good, the dac in particular has pricked my interest..

i note also that the pre mentions a "direct mode", which is likely a HT bypass.

[betty boop]

does indeed look good, the dac in particular has pricked my interest..

i note also that the pre mentions a "direct mode", which is likely a HT bypass.

the back panel doesnt give any clues, in the 80s the direct modes were just a more direct path. like yamahas pure direct mode. it could just shut down all digital circuitry or something. probably something have to check the manual to see what it actually does *shrug*

[ultramic]

Sorry to pull up this thread, but I have been considering the Onkyo 2 channel channel preamp (P-3000R) for some time and have a couple of questions.

Assume I am using the preamp in 2.2 mode (ie connecting 2 subwoofers to the preout 2 connections), how do I set the crossover ? Does it send the sub a full signal and I have to set the crossover on the sub ?

Also, the instruction manual says it has ht bypass for the L/R via the "tape in" connection. How would I utilise the 2 subs for multichannel sources given there is no ht bypass for the sub ? Would I have to make a direct connection from the "sub pre out" on the AVR to the sub directly ? ie the sub will have two inputs - one from the preamp and one from the AVR ? Would this be achieved via a Y - splitter ?