Jump to content

Setting Up Denon 3808 To Pass Analogue To Power Amp


Recommended Posts

I wonder if someone with a bit of know how can assist.

I want to connect my CD player directly to my AVR with 2 rca connectors (CD Input) and I want the analogiue signal to pass thru the Denon AVR 3808 to my power amp hence bypassing the Denon audio DAC's

Can someone who is familar with DEnon please advise.

Edited by CC Rider
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 106
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I wonder if someone with a bit of know how can assist.

I want to connect my CD player directly to my AVR with 2 rca connectors (CD Input) and I want the analogiue signal to pass thru the Denon AVR 3808 to my power amp hence bypassing the Denon audio DAC's

Can someone who is familar with DEnon please advise.

Dunno if one can do that actually.. I thought the 3808 will always convert analog to digital... Hitting pure direct will be as good as it gets...

But I'm just guessing, I can't find anything in the 3808 manual....

Edit: You may want to consider a 2 channel pre with HT bypass... And I think that should work.. But again, I'm just guessing.. :ninja:

Edited by treblid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Edit: You may want to consider a 2 channel pre with HT bypass... And I think that should work.. But again, I'm just guessing.. :ninja:

Yes that will work.

I don't even turn on my AVR when I listen to CD's. Just the CD - PRE - POWERAMP = analogue bliss :wub: Emotiva

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dunno if one can do that actually.. I thought the 3808 will always convert analog to digital... Hitting pure direct will be as good as it gets...

But I'm just guessing, I can't find anything in the 3808 manual....

Edit: You may want to consider a 2 channel pre with HT bypass... And I think that should work.. But again, I'm just guessing.. :ninja:

OK got an answer from specaial member on AVS

if you use the DIRECT or PURE DIRECT surround modes the signal will pass straight through as is with no conversion.

RCA stereo interconnects from CD player to the AVR and setting the AVR to pure direct sends the sound unaltered analogue signal converted by superior audio dacs in the CD player via audio out jacks to my power amp.

The only time signal is altered is if signal source is digital and must be converted to analogue even in pure direct mode using avr's dacs.

Edited by CC Rider
Link to comment
Share on other sites



OK got an answer from specaial member on AVS

if you use the DIRECT or PURE DIRECT surround modes the signal will pass straight through as is with no conversion.

RCA stereo interconnects from CD player to the AVR and setting the AVR to pure direct sends the sound unaltered analogue signal converted by superior audio dacs in the CD player via audio out jacks to my power amp.

The only time signal is altered is if signal source is digital and must be converted to analogue even in pure direct mode using avr's dacs.

Cc rider that is not true, but pure direct or direct the best possible choice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can use the 'EXT IN' multichannel inputs. Iirc they pass through to the amps without being digitized, the only control you have though is master volume and level trims.

Cheers

I've read the avp does vol control in the analog domain macca, but not heard or read that re any of the avrs. Also the level trims I understand are done in the digital domain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've read the avp does vol control in the analog domain macca, but not heard or read that re any of the avrs. Also the level trims I understand are done in the digital domain.

Not 100% sure as I don't usually use those modes. But I found this old post wrt the 3803:

Direct Mode: If analog, the signal is split into 2 identical parts. One is sent full range to the mains, the other is digitized, lowpass filtered and sent on to the sub output. (The sub in Direct can be disabled.) If the original 2 channel signal is digital, the full range signal is ran thru the DACs and on to the mains. The sub receives a digital lowpass signal as earlier and can still be defeated as in the analog mode. The tone controls are bypassed in Direct mode. (BTW, the mains will be sent a full range signal, even if set as "Small".)

Pure Direct Mode: The same as Direct mode except the video circuitry and the front panel display are disabled. If the original signal is analog, only the DAC and lowpass filter feeding the sub's circuit are left on. If it is a digital signal, only the necessary digital circuitry is left on.

The current Denon Stereo Mode's exact nature has been debated recently. If fed an analog signal, older units used the 2 identical analog pathways mentioned above and allowed one to use an analog highpass along with the digital lowpass. This still kept the signal as analog from the mains, even when set to "Small". The tone controls were also available.

Stereo Mode in the current models may no longer operate as an all analog pathway to the mains. They may be digitizing the incoming analog signal from the start. Some of us have tried to get Denon to verify the current Stereo mode's actions but so far, no luck...

And this from UltimateAV on the 5805:

The Denon offers three playback modes for two-channel music. Stereo allows for full adjustment of the receiver's controls, including the available tone controls. Direct mode bypasses these circuits. Pure Direct also turns off the video circuits and, if an analog input is selected, turns off all digital processing circuitry, providing a pure analog bypass.

The Direct and Pure Direct modes do not provide any high-pass filtering on the front left and right speakers—they operate full-range. And if you have set up your system to include a subwoofer, they also leave the subwoofer engaged. This could produce excessive bass in the region where the main speakers and subwoofer overlap. If you specify No for the subwoofer and Large for the main speakers when you perform the speaker configuration during your initial setup, of course, then that will not be a problem, but you won't have an operating subwoofer either.

I did most of my 2-channel listening in plain-vanilla Stereo mode, which does high-pass the left and right front channels if you have set up the receiver for Small main channel speakers (including the front left and right) and a subwoofer, as I did.

The Pure Direct mode does not affect the multichannel analog inputs. There is a menu setting in the Audio Input Setup that determines whether those inputs are converted to digital as soon as they enter the receiver (DSP mode—which will provide you with all digitally processed functions, including MultEQ and bass management) or remain all analog (Analog mode, which bypasses all DSP processing).

The bold section only use to be applicable to the 5805, but I'm sure it also applies to the avp.......not sure if it filtered down to later lower end models :unsure:

I always thought pure direct(or at least ext in) could run analog inputs through to the amps without being digitized(ie master volume and trims had a parallel analog stage :unsure: ). No digitizing on the ext in was always a pain for me in the early DVD-A days as I couldn't use the old 3805 to deal with bass management or run Audyssey eq or any other processing.

Do you have anything from other sources, would be nice to find out for sure B)

Cheers

Edited by MACCA350
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you have anything from other sources, would be nice to find out for sure B)

You are the expert.. Anything I don't know about the 3808, you or Hakka will always have an answer...:ninja:

For me I just get a Denon 2930, and use DenonLink3.. For me that's the best option...

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Hi Macca

So in the above

Pure Direct also turns off the video circuits and, if an analog input is selected, turns off all digital processing circuitry, providing a pure analog bypass.

So this gets back to what I said earlier.

Going analogue into CD input on the AVR and switching Pure direct on will produce a pure analoge output to the ext power amp.. The 3808 has an option to use sub or not with LFE.

for2ch direct/ stereo you can select if want a sub for lfe or lfe to go to mains.

There is also an option to turn on/off room equalisation in pure direct mode.

The three options on the 5805 are also preesnt on the 3808.

Edited by CC Rider
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are the expert.. Anything I don't know about the 3808, you or Hakka will always have an answer...:ninja:

Flattery will get you nowhere :P

For me I just get a Denon 2930, and use DenonLink3.. For me that's the best option...

I would have done the same.......not sure it was available when I got the 2200 :unsure: either way I didn't have it in the player :(

Cheers

Edited by MACCA350
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pure Direct also turns off the video circuits and, if an analog input is selected, turns off all digital processing circuitry, providing a pure analog bypass.

So this gets back to what I said earlier.

Going analogue into CD input on the AVR and switching Pure direct on will produce a pure analoge output to the ext power amp..

That's assuming it is correct.

The 3808 has an option to use sub or not with LFE.

for2ch direct/ stereo you can select if want a sub for lfe or lfe to go to mains.

There is also an option to turn on/off room equalisation in pure direct mode.

The three options on the 5805 are also preesnt on the 3808.

I can't check my 3808 at the moment, it's getting checked out under warranty, but are you saying there is an option to digitize the ext in and apply dsp processing? Ie the section I highlighted in bold, or are you referring to those features you just mentioned?

I currently don't have the 2200 in the ht, it's on bedroom duties and I don't have DVD-A or SACD support in either the BD or HD DVD players in the ht.......so it's all academic for me ATM.

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As Al said its very rare and usually confined to expensive units an analog volume control ;the rest make do with electronic pots . Very common that a ''pure direct ''mode will bypass dsp /room correction only . Never owned Denon though so no practical experience ;)

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread...-volume-control

http://www.dtvforum.info/lofiversion/index.php/t84322.html

Edited by cwt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

but are you saying there is an option to digitize the ext in and apply dsp processing? Ie the section I highlighted in bold, or are you referring to those features you just mentioned?

Cheers

If Direct Mode includes EXT in then yes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



OK an update on my advice got on AVSForum

Sorry you have been given incorrect info by one of the "pseudo-mavens" here on this thread.

The only way to pass the analog signal "untouched" is to connect to the "external in" jacks on the back. Use the L+R ones. Then you select "ext.in" on the remote via the input button onthe touch screen (you can do this when ANY input is selected/active. Just remember to go back to "auto" when you are finished, or you wont get sound from the active input selected.

This will achieve your goal in the least processed (volume only) manner. The "senior member" on the other forum was correct.

I do this with my BD-55 Panny L+R analog outs for reference "unprocessed" playback of redbook CD's.

So it seems ext in is the best way of achieving this as per Macca above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can use the 'EXT IN' multichannel inputs. Iirc they pass through to the amps without being digitized, the only control you have though is master volume and level trims.

Cheers

Definitely a man of knowledge here. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Flattery will get you nowhere :P

It got me quite far... Still remember how you and Hakka managed to sort out some "user mis-interpretation" issues I had when I first got the unit... I still blame the well written manual... :ninja:

I would have done the same.......not sure it was available when I got the 2200 :unsure: either way I didn't have it in the player :(

For me, when compared to the CD input vs DL3, DL3 for me is the better option. In fact I don't know of a EXT-In at the back until this thread else I would have tried that.. Now that you mention it, kindda makes sense now when I hit Input select, there's a EXT-in.. :blush:

So it seems ext in is the best way of achieving this as per Macca above.

That that and see.. It should be better.. The CD input on the 3808 seems restricted and constipated somehow...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK an update on my advice got on AVSForum

Sorry you have been given incorrect info by one of the "pseudo-mavens" here on this thread.

The only way to pass the analog signal "untouched" is to connect to the "external in" jacks on the back. Use the L+R ones. Then you select "ext.in" on the remote via the input button onthe touch screen (you can do this when ANY input is selected/active. Just remember to go back to "auto" when you are finished, or you wont get sound from the active input selected.

This will achieve your goal in the least processed (volume only) manner. The "senior member" on the other forum was correct.

I do this with my BD-55 Panny L+R analog outs for reference "unprocessed" playback of redbook CD's.

So it seems ext in is the best way of achieving this as per Macca above.

try find a schmatic of the 3808, as personally I believe you are still being given a massive bumsteer. if you look at even denons very top of the range avc-a1hd, in its brochure it outlines for its schematic that all analog ins they go through and ADC

showing as analog in--->ADC-->FPGA(containing DSPs)-->DACs-pre-outs. so all analog inputs go through an analog to digital conversion and through the pre processor, dsps and post processor then feed the dacs for the pre-outs.

I'll repeat again there are very very few with a true analog pass through. most I know are extremely simple devices there is a sony pre amp from years ago that was a analog multi channel preamp, parasound makes one, belcanto makes one.

as some have outlined , if you have ability over denon link that is probably best way to go :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the manufacturer does not advertise or specify that a unit offers full bypass of its internal analogue-to-digital circuitry, then it's a safe assumption that it applies A-to-D conversion, then apply its own internal D-to-A conversion of all received analogue signals.

I know that the Arcam and Anthem gear do 'boast' bypass for audio 'purists'.

Dan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



try find a schmatic of the 3808, as personally I believe you are still being given a massive bumsteer. if you look at even denons very top of the range avc-a1hd, in its brochure it outlines for its schematic that all analog ins they go through and ADC

In other words RTFM :D:rolleyes::lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the manufacturer does not advertise or specify that a unit offers full bypass of its internal analogue-to-digital circuitry, then it's a safe assumption that it applies A-to-D conversion, then apply its own internal D-to-A conversion of all received analogue signals.

I know that the Arcam and Anthem gear do 'boast' bypass for audio 'purists'.

Dan.

I wouldnt go with the sales fluff...the thing is jsut about every manufactuer I know promote a "bypass" even on their lowest gear in the range. But with the "bypass" though dan is it really a bypass so acts just as a simple pure analog preamp ? because in my expeirience not always the case. the classe ssp800 beign compared to their equally supreme cp700 pure analog pre-amp is something that bears that out. if they were indeed identical in just a pure analog pass through shoudl perform the same and they dont ! one look under the hood you would see they could not be identical either ! the other one is comparing the cary c11 vs their cheapest analgo pre. ones a digital beast under the hood well and trully, vs the very analog nature of their other gear.

arcam as well for instance when brought out their first avrs that were indeed probably the best come across for 2ch but still I remember their own designer posting on avforums sayign their top of the line avr even with bypass was only to the level of their mid range 2ch integrated...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In other words RTFM :D:rolleyes::lol:

The more I read that, the more confused I become... :lol: I think I must have read it 15+ times in all, and still don't get all of it. Nowadays I just use the manual as a map, to find the right connections, etc....

BTW, Macca, what happened to ur 3808?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

try find a schmatic of the 3808, as personally I believe you are still being given a massive bumsteer. if you look at even denons very top of the range avc-a1hd, in its brochure it outlines for its schematic that all analog ins they go through and ADC

showing as analog in--->ADC-->FPGA(containing DSPs)-->DACs-pre-outs. so all analog inputs go through an analog to digital conversion and through the pre processor, dsps and post processor then feed the dacs for the pre-outs.

I'll repeat again there are very very few with a true analog pass through. most I know are extremely simple devices there is a sony pre amp from years ago that was a analog multi channel preamp, parasound makes one, belcanto makes one.

as some have outlined , if you have ability over denon link that is probably best way to go :)

Thanks Al. There is so much misinformation out there it is not funny. PS re Lyle's RTFM comment. The manual is a pile of bull droppings as it is a rudimentary translation of Jap to English without allowance for semantics.

So in a nut shell ....All analogue input audio signals are converted to digital and reconverted to analogue by the avr's DACS.

Edited by CC Rider
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...
To Top