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Gior's Ht Mess


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Finally figured out why I've been not liking the sound of the I-93's with regards to imaging.

Turns out one of the midranges was wired to the tweeter's crossover (which is out of phase) and the tweeter was connected to the midrange's crossover. Amazingly the HP filter for the midrange has managed to protect the tweeter from smoking up for all these years lol!

So I'm guessing the 'voice of god' effect that I've been hearing has been due to the out of phase midranges connected to different crossovers. Doh! Who would've ever thought that was possible on supposedly top of the line gear???

I should of pulled these speakers apart years ago rather than wait till now. They passed all the normal 'phase' listening tests and also Audyssey's phase tests as the Deqx phase test. They just didn't sound right in 2ch listening (fine for HT as the voices come out of the centre channel). This is why I never bothered with 2ch listening till I got that glowy Jungson thing. With that in the system, I just had to get the 2ch right.

Anyway, links for the current HT setup mess are here. Al wanted me to use the new 'small plastic abortion' and grab some pics. You can quite easily tell which camera images are the Sony's and which ones are the Olympus I think :)

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For real? That sounds like a rather big mistake to make it all the way to the customer?

I remember Greg Osborn making a similar mistake on a set of eclipses before but that was picked up at our GTG (unfortunately for us).

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For real? That sounds like a rather big mistake to make it all the way to the customer?

I remember Greg Osborn making a similar mistake on a set of eclipses before but that was picked up at our GTG (unfortunately for us).

Yup, the left one was wired up correctly, but my right one wasn't. I looked at the wiring and thought to myself I better do a driver polarity check. Without the crossover in place it was much easier to get the drivers moving with a little battery and it was obvious then. I suspected that was the case when the crossovers were in place and did go and order one of the Phase-It speaker polarity checkers to make life easier in the future but had to go and double check my suspicions today as I had a bit of time.

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Anyway, links for the current HT setup mess are here. Al wanted me to use the new 'small plastic abortion' and grab some pics. You can quite easily tell which camera images are the Sony's and which ones are the Olympus I think :)

Mess? What mess? Everything looks great! :wub:

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Yup!

I don't see any mess.

Gior, let me know if you need 19" rack parts.

Graham

Hi Graham,

Thanks mate :) Hopefully all will be good though with the rack bits. Have 19 inch racks on the way supposedly. Meant to get another 14 RU Middle Atlantic rack to mount those amps on some castors. Gonna pull something in my back if I keep moving em around...

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Holy toledo toe-in Batman... :o

Lol, well I've been trying to get a coherent stereo image out of these guys for years now - hence even laser aligned toe ins for optimal beaming of the sound :) Little did I know that the internals of the speakers was wired up wrong.

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Mess? What mess? Everything looks great! :wub:

hehe, yes what mess ! ?

good stuff gior, good on you for posting, looks like a real nice room there.

I like your combined flat panel and pj setup too, one day hopefully I'll get there, I notice you have a heater/ac vent just where the pj comes down ? does that effect things ? always wondered how drop screens go with heating ventillation and whether they end up swaying in the breeze

Lol, well I've been trying to get a coherent stereo image out of these guys for years now - hence even laser aligned toe ins for optimal beaming of the sound :) Little did I know that the internals of the speakers was wired up wrong.

yeah quite a bit of toe in there indeed, would be pointing right at the sweet spot I imagine probably at expense of sound stage width. hopefulyl dont have to go so drastic given the internal wiring stuff up you've found. imaging probably going to be a revelation once you've got that sorted !

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hehe, yes what mess ! ?

good stuff gior, good on you for posting, looks like a real nice room there.

I like your combined flat panel and pj setup too, one day hopefully I'll get there, I notice you have a heater/ac vent just where the pj comes down ? does that effect things ? always wondered how drop screens go with heating ventillation and whether they end up swaying in the breeze

yeah quite a bit of toe in there indeed, would be pointing right at the sweet spot I imagine probably at expense of sound stage width. hopefulyl dont have to go so drastic given the internal wiring stuff up you've found. imaging probably going to be a revelation once you've got that sorted !

Hi Al,

The AC vents all point towards the seating position so nothing blows back onto the screen. The screen doesn't flap around at all if I have the central AC on. But anyway, the central AC is kind of superfluous now as I put a 6kw split system in that room as when the equipment is all on, the room does heat up a few degrees. The split system keeps it all nicely under control :)

Have just finished rewiring up the speakers removing the passive crossover. Have to do some cutting and pasting in the DEQX software now to copy my measurements from the left speaker over to the right speaker. That's not ideal but should be good enough for now. It's raining right now and I don't think doing outdoor measurements is a good idea in the rain :). Depending on results, I may end up dragging the right speaker outside later and measure that one independently.

Will be doing my first DEQX room calibration later today hopefully. Gonna let the wizard do an autoEQ and see if I like those results. If not, there's a nice parametric EQ in the software for me to tweak to my heart's content :)

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Ok, have just managed to get the DEQX modified I-93's up and running in full active mode.

Fixing the wiring issue has made these guys sound like proper speakers now :) I now finally have a coherent 2ch stereo image for the first time ever with these speakers!!! I feel like hooking up the old passive crossovers wired correctly this time and seeing how they sound but am too lazy to do so.

Will be running some measurements of the speakers with driver correction but before room correction EQ applied now.

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Great stuff mate.

LD's I93's were some of the best hifi I have heard in a home environment.

Glad you are going to finally be able to enjoy those lovely speakers.

His obviously didn't have wiring issues :)

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Lol, well I've been trying to get a coherent stereo image out of these guys for years now - hence even laser aligned toe ins for optimal beaming of the sound :) Little did I know that the internals of the speakers was wired up wrong.

Hi Gior,

Speakers wired incorrectly,happens far more often than people think.

Looks Good,how many subs you running 2 seatons ?

Cheers Victor.

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Hi Gior,

Speakers wired incorrectly,happens far more often than people think.

Looks Good,how many subs you running 2 seatons ?

Cheers Victor.

Hi Victor,

Yeah I'm only running the two Seaton's. They are the stands below those JTR Quintuple speakers :)

Anyway, I've just finished tuning the DEQX and the I-93's for the room. Now I have a +/- 3db response from the VAF's 20hz-20khz (even though on Fuzzmeasure the HF tails off above 10khz dramatically due to the vertical mic orientation I'm using for bass measurement) :) I would put up the graph but I forgot to save as I had done over 100 measurements before I got sick of fiddling with the parametric equaliser. I think I can get the response +/- 2db if I spent long enough on it but I was itching to listen. Now am waiting for more banana plugs to arrive so I can rewire the rest of the system nicely and run an Audyssey Pro tune on it.

Imaging issues have all been resolved. The speakers are finally sounding great :)

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Hi Victor,

Yeah I'm only running the two Seaton's. They are the stands below those JTR Quintuple speakers :)

Anyway, I've just finished tuning the DEQX and the I-93's for the room. Now I have a +/- 3db response from the VAF's 20hz-20khz (even though on Fuzzmeasure the HF tails off above 10khz dramatically due to the vertical mic orientation I'm using for bass measurement) :) I would put up the graph but I forgot to save as I had done over 100 measurements before I got sick of fiddling with the parametric equaliser. I think I can get the response +/- 2db if I spent long enough on it but I was itching to listen. Now am waiting for more banana plugs to arrive so I can rewire the rest of the system nicely and run an Audyssey Pro tune on it.

Imaging issues have all been resolved. The speakers are finally sounding great :)

Great stuff mate. Congrats on a good outcome :)

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Thanks mate :) It has been a bit of effort doing this, but I think well worth the effort.

Would have been less of an effort had you just opened the speaker and worked out the x/over was wired wrong before converting them to active :D

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Would have been less of an effort had you just opened the speaker and worked out the x/over was wired wrong before converting them to active :D

Only crazy people go and open their $8k speakers up to check that their internal wiring is correct!!! Do I sound crazy to you!!!??? :P:o:huh:

Besides, if it all did sound right, I would never have bothered with getting a DEQX, and I tell you, I LIKE the DEQX. So much tweaking flexibility...YUM...

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Only crazy people go and open their $8k speakers up to check that their internal wiring is correct!!! Do I sound crazy to you!!!??? :P:o:huh:

Besides, if it all did sound right, I would never have bothered with getting a DEQX, and I tell you, I LIKE the DEQX. So much tweaking flexibility...YUM...

Neurotic yes, insane nah.... well... hmmm *scratches head*

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