Projector And Screen Selection With Aussiemorphic Mk4 Lens

[Quark]

I'm new to the idea of projection, having recently been convinced after seeing a 150" scope screen with Mark Techer's Mk3 and Mk4 anamorphic lenses, so looking for advice please.

The room is 5.5m wide (narrows down to 4.5 at the end opposite where I intend to put the screen) and 6.5m deep. Light control won't be perfect, as the there is a large (5m) full height window down one length. The window has block out curtains and I'll add a pelmet. An external roller shutter on the window isn't an option, as the eaves are quite low. The open area on the other length we can close off and add some doors.

Given the less than perfect light control, I'm probably looking for a bright projector - the two most likely candidates at this time are a BenQ W6000 or an Infocus SP8602 (LCD is not an option).

The room has a complex ceiling and without significant work (and some serious PJ cooling issues), I can't get a throw of more than ~4.9m.

Looking at a 130" scope screen i.e. image height of about 128cm and Mark4 lens. Seating will be ~4m from screen.

At a throw of 4.9m, the scope screen looks workable (to me) subject to:

1. Will there be a problem with the Mark4 vignetting on either of the PJs I've shortlisted?

2. What screen gain should I aim for? On the Projector Central calculator it looks like I don't need more than 1.0 gain, but it's not clear if the calculator assumes an anamorphic lens or zooming for scope screens.

3. [Edit] Will pincushion be noticeable with the Mark4 on a 4.9m throw?

Suggestions welcome.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Quark

[oztheatre]

I'm new to the idea of projection, having recently been convinced after seeing a 150" scope screen with Mark Techer's Mk3 and Mk4 anamorphic lenses, so looking for advice please.

The room is 5.5m wide (narrows down to 4.5 at the end opposite where I intend to put the screen) and 6.5m deep. Light control won't be perfect, as the there is a large (5m) full height window down one length. The window has block out curtains and I'll add a pelmet. An external roller shutter on the window isn't an option, as the eaves are quite low. The open area on the other length we can close off and add some doors.

Given the less than perfect light control, I'm probably looking for a bright projector - the two most likely candidates at this time are a BenQ W6000 or an Infocus SP8602 (LCD is not an option).

The room has a complex ceiling and without significant work (and some serious PJ cooling issues), I can't get a throw of more than ~4.9m.

Looking at a 130" scope screen i.e. image height of about 128cm and Mark4 lens. Seating will be ~4m from screen.

At a throw of 4.9m, the scope screen looks workable (to me) subject to:

1. Will there be a problem with the Mark4 vignetting on either of the PJs I've shortlisted?

2. What screen gain should I aim for? On the Projector Central calculator it looks like I don't need more than 1.0 gain, but it's not clear if the calculator assumes an anamorphic lens or zooming for scope screens.

3. [Edit] Will pincushion be noticeable with the Mark4 on a 4.9m throw?

Suggestions welcome.

Quark, working off 4.9 is the best place to begin as this will be the key factor (plus seating position) on how large you can go.

For the MK3 you want to keep the zoom at one third or less.

4.9 with a JVC HD550, max image height 1300 - which means a 130 scope at 1281 high (add atleast 10mm to overall image height for overscanning purposes)

4.9 with a BenQ W6000, max image height 1300 "

(For the BenQ I would use a little less than 1/3 maximum zoom, around 1/4 works best as the lens is more recessed than other PJ's.)

4.9 with the SP8602, max image height 1410 - which means 140 or a bit more.

You wont have any dramas such as vignetting with either lenses on those 3 machines at 4.9 with a 130 scope screen (and 140 with the infocus only!)

How far back will you be seated? 4-5 metres? You're limited by the position of the PJ regardless.

[Quark]

Quark, working off 4.9 is the best place to begin as this will be the key factor (plus seating position) on how large you can go.

For the MK3 you want to keep the zoom at one third or less.

4.9 with a JVC HD550, max image height 1300 - which means a 130 scope at 1281 high (add atleast 10mm to overall image height for overscanning purposes)

4.9 with a BenQ W6000, max image height 1300 "

(For the BenQ I would use a little less than 1/3 maximum zoom, around 1/4 works best as the lens is more recessed than other PJ's.)

4.9 with the SP8602, max image height 1410 - which means 140 or a bit more.

You wont have any dramas such as vignetting with either lenses on those 3 machines at 4.9 with a 130 scope screen (and 140 with the infocus only!)

How far back will you be seated? 4-5 metres? You're limited by the position of the PJ regardless.

Thanks for that, much appreciated!

I've put a deposit down on the Mk4 lens in the current EOI, so the Mk3 is out of the running for me.

Seating position will be 4m.

While I'd love to go with a 140" scope screen, the room will double for music and I need to leave room for a couple of large speakers (Osborn Eclipse Towers) off to the sides.

Did you have any views on screen gain? Given the less than ideal light control and with the W6000 being a "light cannon" (and the 8602 apparently not too far behind), should I go for more than a gain of 1.0? Especially for 16:9 viewing...

[50mxe20]

Sounds so similar to me that it could be me writing!!

I reckon 130 is about right (for me).

[Quark]

Sounds so similar to me that it could be me writing!!

I reckon 130 is about right (for me).

Great minds think alike...

[CAVX]

The room has a complex ceiling and without significant work (and some serious PJ cooling issues), I can't get a throw of more than ~4.9m.

Looking at a 130" scope screen i.e. image height of about 128cm and Mark4 lens. Seating will be ~4m from screen.

At a throw of 4.9m, the scope screen looks workable (to me) subject to:

1. Will there be a problem with the Mark4 vignetting on either of the PJs I've shortlisted?

2. What screen gain should I aim for? On the Projector Central calculator it looks like I don't need more than 1.0 gain, but it's not clear if the calculator assumes an anamorphic lens or zooming for scope screens.

3. [Edit] Will pincushion be noticeable with the Mark4 on a 4.9m throw?

Suggestions welcome.

Quark,

The MK4 works with all TRs down to 1.4:1 so vignetting won't be an issue. MK4 Lens #00002 is actually used at a TR of 1.4:1 onto a 150 Scope screen with a SONY WV60 and no vignetting issues and perfect corner to corner focus. There is some pincushion, however with the required tilt, this is evened out top to bottom and not really noticeable unless projecting a test pattern or other similar static images.

I personally would go for a longer TR. At your 4.9m throw, your TR for the 130" Scope screen (image of 3033mm x 1281mm) is 2.15:1 which is pretty much min zoom for the BenQ6000. Pincushion is minimized, however is never eradicated.

[Quark]

Quark,

The MK4 works with all TRs down to 1.4:1 so vignetting won't be an issue. MK4 Lens #00002 is actually used at a TR of 1.4:1 onto a 150 Scope screen with a SONY WV60 and no vignetting issues and perfect corner to corner focus. There is some pincushion, however with the required tilt, this is evened out top to bottom and not really noticeable unless projecting a test pattern or other similar static images.

I personally would go for a longer TR. At your 4.9m throw, your TR for the 130" Scope screen (image of 3033mm x 1281mm) is 2.15:1 which is pretty much min zoom for the BenQ6000. Pincushion is minimized, however is never eradicated.

Thanks Mark, I was very impressed with the corner to corner focus of the Mk4 (and also the Mk3 with corrector) at the GTG.

In respect of pincushion, there was almost none on the 150" scope screen at the GTG and it sounds like it wouldn't be too much different with the set up I've proposed.

As mentioned above, getting a longer throw would be difficult - I would have to build a recess into a drophead ceiling over a bar at that end of the room. By the time I make the recess big enough to provide some airflow (probably with fan assistance) the WAF is going to drop away quickly... At the end of it all, going down that path will only get me about 80cm extra throw.

[50mxe20]

Thanks Mark, I was very impressed with the corner to corner focus of the Mk4 (and also the Mk3 with corrector) at the GTG.

In respect of pincushion, there was almost none on the 150" scope screen at the GTG and it sounds like it wouldn't be too much different with the set up I've proposed.

As mentioned above, getting a longer throw would be difficult - I would have to build a recess into a drophead ceiling over a bar at that end of the room. By the time I make the recess big enough to provide some airflow (probably with fan assistance) the WAF is going to drop away quickly... At the end of it all, going down that path will only get me about 80cm extra throw.

Great minds think alike...

Or fools ..............................

A smaller screen than 150 resolves the issues of throw though doesn't it?

[Quark]

Or fools ..............................

Well my wife might agree regarding one fool...

A smaller screen than 150 resolves the issues of throw though doesn't it?

That's why I'm thinking 130", albeit longer throw would further reduce any minor pincushion. While 140" would be nice, I'm certain to have issues with speakers being too close to side walls with the increase in screen width. Compromises...

Edit: grammar

Edited May 19, 2010 by Quark

[CAVX]

Thanks Mark, I was very impressed with the corner to corner focus of the Mk4 (and also the Mk3 with corrector) at the GTG.

And that is the true beauty of a cylindrical lens. You can dial it in to get true focus. The MK3+C works well too, however it is a hybrid prism/cylindrical lens with non adjustable optics and why the Mk4 being a true cylindrical lens is a better lens. You would only find one sweet spot with the MK3+C where any spot is the "sweet" spot with the Mk4.

In respect of pincushion, there was almost none on the 150" scope screen at the GTG and it sounds like it wouldn't be too much different with the set up I've proposed.

Yeah, the throw was pretty long. If you were to go to the 150" (assuming speakers were not an issue), your TR would drop from the 2.15:1 down to 1.89:1, so whilst this would slight increase the pincushion, you'd get a larger image for your room. However, nothing wrong with a 130".

As mentioned above, getting a longer throw would be difficult - I would have to build a recess into a drophead ceiling over a bar at that end of the room. By the time I make the recess big enough to provide some airflow (probably with fan assistance) the WAF is going to drop away quickly... At the end of it all, going down that path will only get me about 80cm extra throw.

Hmmm, so probably not worth the effort.

[mr-happy-pants]

While I'd love to go with a 140" scope screen, the room will double for music and I need to leave room for a couple of large speakers (Osborn Eclipse Towers) off to the sides.

Enough of all this talk about screens!

I wanna know more about your Osborne Eclipse Towers. Have you got them yet? What are you running them with?

BtW

I reckon 130" will be fine.

Graham

[Drizt]

Indeed.

They are very nice speakers. I remember hearing the original prototypes and being very smitten with them

Enough of all this talk about screens!

I wanna know more about your Osborne Eclipse Towers. Have you got them yet? What are you running them with?

BtW

I reckon 130" will be fine.

Graham

[Quark]

Enough of all this talk about screens!

I wanna know more about your Osborne Eclipse Towers. Have you got them yet? What are you running them with?

BtW

I reckon 130" will be fine.

Graham

Indeed.

They are very nice speakers. I remember hearing the original prototypes and being very smitten with them

Thanks Graham & Drizt.

I've had the towers (reference version) for nearly a year. They replaced some Vaf DCX Mk4s.

While I'd hoped to get away without additional upgrades, I ended up grabbing some Stereo Knight monoblocs, matching SK pre and Consonance 2.2 CDP from Greg as well.

I'm very pleased with the result, albeit my room set up, including a plasma between the towers, doesn't help with imaging (much better when demoing at Greg's place). Nothing a move to a scope screen won't improve.

Drop me a PM if you'd like to catch up.

Rob

[Quark]

A quick update to say that I've ordered a BenQ W6000 for a great price - should pick it up over the weekend. While I wasn't planning on a PJ purchase for a while, with the Aussie dollar falling like a stone, thought I'd better bring things forward. I suspect today's bounce in the dollar is the RBA intervening to keep things orderly. Between the Greek etc crisis and Krudd's Really Stupid Politician's Tax, I'm not confident that the $ slide will stop soon.

Still to sort out screen etc, so a while before I get to play with it.

[bbar]

A quick update to say that I've ordered a BenQ W6000 for a great price - should pick it up over the weekend. While I wasn't planning on a PJ purchase for a while, with the Aussie dollar falling like a stone, thought I'd better bring things forward. I suspect today's bounce in the dollar is the RBA intervening to keep things orderly. Between the Greek etc crisis and Krudd's Really Stupid Politician's Tax, I'm not confident that the $ slide will stop soon.

Still to sort out screen etc, so a while before I get to play with it.

Congratulations, you will not regret it.

[Quark]

Congratulations, you will not regret it.

Thanks Bryan. I suspect there could be a few temporary regrets during installation, but that will only add to the satisfaction when it's done.

[Quark]

Thanks Bryan. I suspect there could be a few temporary regrets during installation, but that will only add to the satisfaction when it's done.

Well I picked up the W6000 today. Will try to finalise which screen in the next couple of days (as well as get the better half to sign off on some paint colour on the screen wall, which is way too light).

Thanks to Jason V for a great deal on the W6000.

[Quark]

I ordered the screen today (a 130" OZTS Majestic scope) through Selby, as well as some cables, wall plates etc. A pleasure dealing with the guys at Selby.

Edit: fixed typo

Edited May 25, 2010 by Quark