Denon 1909 Speakers Advice

[drake]

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the game, my Sony HTIB died, and I decided the way to go was a separate AMP, and hang onto my existing HTIB speakers until I could afford something better.

I wanted HDMI audio, and decided after much research that the Denon 1909/789 had the features I wanted, new Audessy etc. Other contenders were the the Onkyo 606 and the Harmon Karden 255. Both of these seemed to have issues so I went with the Denon.

When I set up the AMP I discovered that I need an Active Sub instead of the passive one I had, so now I'm looking for a decent sub since 5 Sony satellites aren't going to give me the sound that I payed for, but I'm thinking that I should maybe upgrade the whole lot rather than just buying the sub. Price is a factor here. Considering returning the Denon and getting something cheap since I don't really have the money for decent speakers right now.

Help please, is there decent speakers I can get for $500ish, I have friends in high places so can probably get most things well under retail. I've been hitting online auctions trying to find a good deal, but most of the speakers are unknowns.

I have auditioned Klipsch and Accursound Theta, but unimpressed with their entry level stuff.

Some help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh yeah, mainly for Home Theatre use.

Room is 5m x 4m, high ceilings, around 2.5-3m, right side is completely open , and leads to dinning room, also high ceiling.

using Panasonic AE200E projector, cheap DVD player, and digital set top. possible plans on PS3 for Blue Ray.

PS. So disappointed with the menu of the denon, whats with the 1990's blue screen style, my $50 DVD player does better than this. After seeing the Harmon/Karmon graphical onscreen one, it makes me want to take the denon back and get the HK255.

Thanks in Advance!

[Juicester]

PS. So disappointed with the menu of the denon, whats with the 1990's blue screen style, my $50 DVD player does better than this. After seeing the Harmon/Karmon graphical onscreen one, it makes me want to take the denon back and get the HK255.

i would personally do just that if i was you. as far as im aware the 1909 doesn't have preouts for an additional power amp or preamp if you want to upgrade your system further down the track - so it's a dead end in many regards. Additionally, the new firmware for the HK's has fixed most (if not all) of the previous teething problems. Oh, and you can pick them up for about $850 too.

HK 255

[Doug1503559538]

i would personally do just that if i was you. as far as im aware the 1909 doesn't have preouts for an additional power amp or preamp if you want to upgrade your system further down the track - so it's a dead end in many regards. Additionally, the new firmware for the HK's has fixed most (if not all) of the previous teething problems. Oh, and you can pick them up for about $850 too.

HK 255

A

[Doug1503559538]

i would personally do just that if i was you. as far as im aware the 1909 doesn't have preouts for an additional power amp or preamp if you want to upgrade your system further down the track - so it's a dead end in many regards. Additionally, the new firmware for the HK's has fixed most (if not all) of the previous teething problems. Oh, and you can pick them up for about $850 too.

HK 255

As 99.999% of HT users couldn't care less about preouts I have no idea why you people keep on raising this.

Someone was even so strange as to imply that their 5.1 amp was in good condition because they used preouts to a seperate amp so the original amp had not been stressed !!! How weird. Electronic components don't wear out.

To updgrade a 5.1. system you go and buy another 5.1. amp not use the preouts.

The Denon 1909 is a great amp from what I have read - the color of the menu that you will use probably for the firstday only and the lack of preouts are not waht I call even minor problems for the vast majority.

p.s. You will probably need to spend $2.2million dollars on speakers (at least) - I know this for a fact as I have been reading this message board regularly and that is the type of advice that is often posted (I wonder if there is a bit of self-justification going on here ????)

I should post a link to a Yamaha amp as that would make my (useless) post more complete.

[-geejay-]

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the game, my Sony HTIB died, and I decided the way to go was a separate AMP, and hang onto my existing HTIB speakers until I could afford something better...

I wanted HDMI audio, and decided after much research that the Denon 1909/789 had the features I wanted, new Audessy etc. Other contenders were the the Onkyo 606 and the Harmon Karden 255. Both of these seemed to have issues so I went with the Denon.

When I set up the AMP I discovered that I need an Active Sub instead of the passive one I had, so now I'm looking for a decent sub since 5 Sony satellites aren't going to give me the sound that I payed for, but I'm thinking that I should maybe upgrade the whole lot rather than just buying the sub. Price is a factor here. Considering returning the Denon and getting something cheap since I don't really have the money for decent speakers right now.

Help please, is there decent speakers I can get for $500ish, I have friends in high places so can probably get most things well under retail. I've been hitting online auctions trying to find a good deal, but most of the speakers are unknowns.

I have auditioned Klipsch and Accursound Theta, but unimpressed with their entry level stuff.

Some help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh yeah, mainly for Home Theatre use.

Room is 5m x 4m, high ceilings, around 2.5-3m, right side is completely open , and leads to dinning room, also high ceiling.

using Panasonic AE200E projector, cheap DVD player, and digital set top. possible plans on PS3 for Blue Ray.

PS. So disappointed with the menu of the denon, whats with the 1990's blue screen style, my $50 DVD player does better than this. After seeing the Harmon/Karmon graphical onscreen one, it makes me want to take the denon back and get the HK255.

Thanks in Advance!

Sorry in advance if the first para here sounds a bit strong…

But a pretty on-screen menu display has got SFA to do with sound quality and related & desirable features pertaining to sound -such as for example, the excellent Audyssey system for speaker/room setup.

Audyssey will be important for you in your circumstance with your current speakers. (And incidentally HK’s don’t run Audyssey; but have their own equivalent system called EZset which has nowhere near the reputation, advice & support that Audyssey has).

Also bear in mind that only a small percentage of AVR users actually go on to purchase a separate power amp. So even when fitted, preamp outputs often don’t get used -and especially so when finances are tight.

Keep the 1909. It will form an excellent basis for the building of a future good system as your finances permit. In the meantime, get yourself a reasonable wide-range sub (2nd hand if necessary); and the Audyssey system will blend it in with your existing satellite speakers in a manner that may surprise you. This will most likely remove the temptation to purchase replacement speakers which are less than optimum due to limited finances at the moment.

You’ve made a good choice so far, and don’t worry about fancy on-screen menus. Once your system is setup you won’t be even looking at them!

Regards

[Juicester]

As 99.999% of HT users couldn't care less about preouts I have no idea why you people keep on raising this.

Someone was even so strange as to imply that their 5.1 amp was in good condition because they used preouts to a seperate amp so the original amp had not been stressed !!! How weird. Electronic components don't wear out.

To updgrade a 5.1. system you go and buy another 5.1. amp not use the preouts.

The Denon 1909 is a great amp from what I have read - the color of the menu that you will use probably for the firstday only and the lack of preouts are not waht I call even minor problems for the vast majority.

p.s. You will probably need to spend $2.2million dollars on speakers (at least) - I know this for a fact as I have been reading this message board regularly and that is the type of advice that is often posted (I wonder if there is a bit of self-justification going on here ????)

I should post a link to a Yamaha amp as that would make my (useless) post more complete.

a very naive post. with the flexibility of preouts - an AVR can become the hub for a great system that handles both 2 ch and mulit ch duties. You would probably need an AVR in the realms of $7k-$10k that can compete on a 2 channel basis with the likes of a $1k-$1.5k dedicated 2 channel amplifier. And I can't imagine how much you would need to spend on a SINGLE AVR to get the equivalent sound quality with say a HK 255 and an Elektra Theatron. Essentially preouts are future proofing yourself and lending to greater customisation and flexibility. And your sarcastic remarks about having to spend millions of dollars on speakers is way off base. I suggested an AVR that is CHEAPER than the one the OP bought. Get that?!!!! I suggested a more COST EFFECTIVE option.

The 1909 is a great bit of kit, and no doubt the OP will be very happy with it. I merely mentioned that in my opinion, the option of having preouts is indespensable.

[drake]

a very naive post. with the flexibility of preouts - an AVR can become the hub for a great system that handles both 2 ch and mulit ch duties. You would probably need an AVR in the realms of $7k-$10k that can compete on a 2 channel basis with the likes of a $1k-$1.5k dedicated 2 channel amplifier. And I can't imagine how much you would need to spend on a SINGLE AVR to get the equivalent sound quality with say a HK 255 and an Elektra Theatron. Essentially preouts are future proofing yourself and lending to greater customisation and flexibility. And your sarcastic remarks about having to spend millions of dollars on speakers is way off base. I suggested an AVR that is CHEAPER than the one the OP bought. Get that?!!!! I suggested a more COST EFFECTIVE option.

The 1909 is a great bit of kit, and no doubt the OP will be very happy with it. I merely mentioned that in my opinion, the option of having preouts is indespensable.

Ah, wildly different opinions here, thanks to you guys for them.

I kinda agree with Doug, can't see why I would need pre-outs, although lots of people who have been around this sort of equipment seem to think they are a great thing to have. I'm curious though, if later down the track I wanted to set up a second amp, wouldn't I just buy one with pre-outs then? or does all the amps in a setup need to be equipped this way for it to work well?

I also get that I'll probably only use the setup screens for a small amount of time, and part of my disappointment is that I can't really get that out of the way till I find myself a sub, but when I looked at it, it just felt "cheap", hopefully I'll get over it and concentrate on the great sound.

So I'm looking at getting some cheap second hand speakers, sub center and fronts, which will hopefully solve my problems for the moment, but down the track I'd like to make use of this expensive amp, can anyone suggest some decent speakers to use, I've heard the denpn described as "bright", and should be paired with more subtle speakers. the HK described as Warm, and should be paired with more in your face speakers such as Klipsch. Can anyone speak to this?

[drake]

Sorry in advance if the first para here sounds a bit strong…

But a pretty on-screen menu display has got SFA to do with sound quality and related & desirable features pertaining to sound -such as for example, the excellent Audyssey system for speaker/room setup.

Audyssey will be important for you in your circumstance with your current speakers. (And incidentally HK’s don’t run Audyssey; but have their own equivalent system called EZset which has nowhere near the reputation, advice & support that Audyssey has).

Also bear in mind that only a small percentage of AVR users actually go on to purchase a separate power amp. So even when fitted, preamp outputs often don’t get used -and especially so when finances are tight.

Keep the 1909. It will form an excellent basis for the building of a future good system as your finances permit. In the meantime, get yourself a reasonable wide-range sub (2nd hand if necessary); and the Audyssey system will blend it in with your existing satellite speakers in a manner that may surprise you. This will most likely remove the temptation to purchase replacement speakers which are less than optimum due to limited finances at the moment.

You’ve made a good choice so far, and don’t worry about fancy on-screen menus. Once your system is setup you won’t be even looking at them!

Regards

Thanks qeejay, This is the sort of advise I'm after, and don't worry about coddling me, I can take it.

I was unaware that the Audyssey system would work to blend the disparate speakers in. Although I would not expect the sub to mess too much with the sound as much as different fronts and surrounds etc. I could be wrong.

I think I'll hang onto the Denon long enough to test this theory, but it's tempting to save $300 on the HK and throw that at speakers.

What Sub can you recommend? I should stay away from the Dream Acoustics, etc on ebay right?

[Gutty]

Bloody hell Doug... won't you just go away and die you negative twat ?

Drake, my advice to you is keep the Denon.

Get over the blue GUI, you only use it from time to time, then it plays no part in daily use.

If you don't ever plan to add a power amp, you don't need pre-outs, so don't worry bout that either.

Given your budget for speakers i think the Audessy will come in very handy, giving you the best sound your speakers can give at this price level.

As for speakers, if you really want a full kit, Stuggo has a 5.1 pack of Welling speakers for sale here. Not sure they're going to sound any better than what you've already auditioned, but hey, to be honest, you're at the low end of town witha $500 budget, not much is going to blow you away with sound quality.

Alternatively, if you can stretch to $700 this would be a cracker of a sub and give you much pleasure for teh mean time. Then add some better speakers front/centre/rear when budget permits, if you so desire.

There's a thread here on subs within your budget.

And again, if you can stretch the budget and haggle a bit, this little beauty would blend great with some small sattelites, and give a decent kick for it's size too.

Me, if i was in your shoes, i would buy something like this, and start saving for some nice bookshelf front/centre speakers. Decent bookshelves can be had for around $500 a pair.

So for speakers, lots of options out there, alot depending on what/if you plan to spend more $$ down the road.

Keep an eye on the boards for second hand stuff, and always check the specials pages at places like Eastwood Hifi etc.

Best of luck

Edit: obvioulsy the second hand offerings depend alot on where you live... ??

Edited November 21, 2008 by Gutty