Upgrade Video Card Or Not?

[homersyd]

Hi all,

Currently I have my 50" plasma (1080p) hooked up to a PC (WinXP only), and I use it ALOT to play divx/rmvb files.

Obviously quality is no blu-ray, however I am using Kmplayer and tweaked the options to hopefully improve it,

options like deinterlace, sharpen, etc etc...

Anyway, I'm thinking whether there will be a vast improvement to the picture quality (yes even if I planned to play

crappy divx/rmvb's) if I upgrade my Video card.

ATM, my PC spec is (about 5-6 yrs old):

=======================================

CPU: AMD 2600XP (1.?GHZ) - I found whenever I turn on more video processing options in kmplayer, the video will get very choppy (actually more like pausing).

Video card: Geforce Fx5200 (ASUS) with composite/VGA out (No DVI) - I use VGA to connect to my plasma. My Motherboard has only AGP slot, no PCI-E etc.

So my question is would it worth it for me to buy a new AGP based video card (e.g. HD2600 XT) since I dont play PC games?

Would it make a stellar difference (with or without KMplayer's video tweaks...)?

Thanks a lot people! =)

Cheers

[Nova Phoenix]

You're connecting a VGA-capable AGP card to a high-tech Plasma TV? *sighs in disappointment*

Definitely upgrade your motherboard, then get a new video card that can fit in a PCI-E lane and make sure it is equipped with DVI.

You may need to upgrade your CPU to a dual-core as well.

[jakes]

Hi all,

...

Anyway, I'm thinking whether there will be a vast improvement to the picture quality (yes even if I planned to play

crappy divx/rmvb's) if I upgrade my Video card.

ATM, my PC spec is (about 5-6 yrs old):

=======================================

CPU: AMD 2600XP (1.?GHZ) - I found whenever I turn on more video processing options in kmplayer, the video will get very choppy (actually more like pausing).

...

So my question is would it worth it for me to buy a new AGP based video card (e.g. HD2600 XT) since I dont play PC games?

Would it make a stellar difference (with or without KMplayer's video tweaks...)?

Thanks a lot people! =)

Cheers

Your main problem here is that you're limited by your CPU. Upgrading the video card isn't going to allow you to do extra video processing, since this processing is performed on the CPU, not the GPU. Therefore, there's probably not much to be gained by just upgrading the video card. However, if you get a new motherboard and cpu, you'll probably need new ram and video card anyway. So unless you're happy to upgrade the whole PC, I'm not sure it does make sense to get a new AGP video card (as you're unlikely to see a huge difference in picture quality if you do).

[Tweet]

Hi all,

Currently I have my 50" plasma (1080p) hooked up to a PC (WinXP only), and I use it ALOT to play divx/rmvb files.

Obviously quality is no blu-ray, however I am using Kmplayer and tweaked the options to hopefully improve it,

options like deinterlace, sharpen, etc etc...

Anyway, I'm thinking whether there will be a vast improvement to the picture quality (yes even if I planned to play

crappy divx/rmvb's) if I upgrade my Video card.

ATM, my PC spec is (about 5-6 yrs old):

=======================================

CPU: AMD 2600XP (1.?GHZ) - I found whenever I turn on more video processing options in kmplayer, the video will get very choppy (actually more like pausing).

Video card: Geforce Fx5200 (ASUS) with composite/VGA out (No DVI) - I use VGA to connect to my plasma. My Motherboard has only AGP slot, no PCI-E etc.

So my question is would it worth it for me to buy a new AGP based video card (e.g. HD2600 XT) since I dont play PC games?

Would it make a stellar difference (with or without KMplayer's video tweaks...)?

Thanks a lot people! =)

Cheers

Upgrading the video card will do little to enhance performance, your KMplayer ( I 'm not familiar with that bit of software myself) is being run by your CPU, the video card is basically a frame buffer for outputting video signals and not much more.

Inversely, turning off the video processing options in KMplayer improves performance which indicates system resources are limited. It would seem a complete system upgrade in performance would be necessary if you want much more than what you are getting now.

5-6 years old is 'old age' in the computer hardware stakes these days, so there comes a time when one has to make a decision to pull the plug or live with the limitations of the past.

C.M

[homersyd]

Thanks very much for the suggestions guys =)

I think I might start to look for new mobo, video card etc...

Upgrading the video card will do little to enhance performance, your KMplayer ( I 'm not familiar with that bit of software myself) is being run by your CPU, the video card is basically a frame buffer for outputting video signals and not much more.

Inversely, turning off the video processing options in KMplayer improves performance which indicates system resources are limited. It would seem a complete system upgrade in performance would be necessary if you want much more than what you are getting now.

5-6 years old is 'old age' in the computer hardware stakes these days, so there comes a time when one has to make a decision to pull the plug or live with the limitations of the past.

C.M

[homersyd]

Nova,

Yeah I know, sounds crazy...but since I dont play PC games I havent upgraded my PC for 5-6 yrs...always had the mindset that the PC is only used for watching divx/rmvb, so should be ok...

Do you think upgrading the whole PC would make the picture quality a whole lot better?

You're connecting a VGA-capable AGP card to a high-tech Plasma TV? *sighs in disappointment*

Definitely upgrade your motherboard, then get a new video card that can fit in a PCI-E lane and make sure it is equipped with DVI.

You may need to upgrade your CPU to a dual-core as well.

[Mr.Bitey]

U could upgrade to one of the latest gen AGP cards (like a ATI 3650) which can offload a lot of the decoding of mpeg2 and h264 material - however your CPU is going to be a serious bottleneck.

Im in a similar boat with my P4 3.2ghz HTPC... I just chucked my x1950gt in it from another machine cos my original 9800pro died.

However rather than blow $99 on a 3650, i'm going to buy a new mobo/cpu/vid/ram/bluray drive (keeping case, hard drives, dvd drive, software) - for around $500 should end up with something that can play 1080p back no probs. Ive got my $ worth out of the original PC and its time for a replacement - HD formats will be reasonably stable now for a few years so an investment now (since all the hardware has come down in price) is worthwhile.

Cheers,

Bitey

[homersyd]

Yeah, upgrading makes more sense...mmm....i guess i'd have to take a look at all the new PC gear out now....havent been keeping up with it all. Do you have a recommendation for a cheap CPU (good enough for bluray movies, but doesnt have to be able play superduper games) and a video card?

Thanks a lot mate

U could upgrade to one of the latest gen AGP cards (like a ATI 3650) which can offload a lot of the decoding of mpeg2 and h264 material - however your CPU is going to be a serious bottleneck.

Im in a similar boat with my P4 3.2ghz HTPC... I just chucked my x1950gt in it from another machine cos my original 9800pro died.

However rather than blow $99 on a 3650, i'm going to buy a new mobo/cpu/vid/ram/bluray drive (keeping case, hard drives, dvd drive, software) - for around $500 should end up with something that can play 1080p back no probs. Ive got my $ worth out of the original PC and its time for a replacement - HD formats will be reasonably stable now for a few years so an investment now (since all the hardware has come down in price) is worthwhile.

Cheers,

Bitey

[Guest csw05]

I suggest you get urself a cheap intel system. Core 2 is really cheap. I run a E4200 on a 52inch at 1080. I am also using Ati's latest 4850 which has the best decoding with UVD 2. Wait for the 4830 which will be cheaper though. You do need good cooling though as these cards put out a fair amount of heat. I also use Km Player for all my 1080p MKV files and havent had any issues when running on their standard settings. In regards to Bluray use Power DVD and it will take advantage of ATi Avivo and offload alot of the processing to the video cards GPU and hence keep the video smooth.

[Guest csw05]

Double Post

Edited November 19, 2008 by csw05

[smokenz]

and when you get a new mobo,cpu and gpu, start getting MKV 720p and 1080p files. i dont see why people watch dvds and low res videos on an HDTV.

once you get into HD, the only SD you should watch is general tv viewing that doesn't offer HD output.

and if you say you have a big dvd collection, think of this way. not many people with ps3 play all their ps2 games. not many xbox 360 owners play all their old xbox games.'

there is soo many HD movies, HD tv shows etc, that you have plenty of content to watch that you shouldn't need to watch your old DVDs.

[Owen]

I have been running a HTPC or two continuously for 8 years (over 20 video cards) and have used a 5200 back in the day. Video quality on the 5200 could only be described as poor due to 8bit video processing, an ATI 9600 was a BIG improvement over the 5200 Nvidia. The main diferance is the lack of macro block artefacts.

A current generation card WILL give you noticeably better video QUALITY,.

If you want top notch deinterlacing of 1080i DON’T skimp on a video card. Low end cards and integrated video system just don’t have the shader power to handle 1080i deinterlacing properly. 1080p is MUCH easier to handle as no deinterlacing is required.

My cards or the recent past have been an ATI 9600 Pro, an Nvidia 6600GT (better video quality), an Nvidia 7800GTS (much better 1080i deinterlacing), an Nvidia 8800GTS (Great card for video quality and deinterlacing) , and ATI 2600XT (waste of time, not competitive with the 8800) and an Nvidia 8800GTS series II (no better then the series one 8800 but first rate none the less, and cheap). The 8800 is by FAR the best card I have used, the deinterlacing performance and smooth block free image is superb, nothing else I have used comes close.

I no longer use hardware decoding for anything, the best Mpeg2 decoding is via FFDShow software, even H.264 decoding works great in software these days.

Deinterlacing MUST be done in video hardware if high quality is required and that takes some skill to implement, as well as good video hardware (NOT low end).

I never play games but the $780 I spent on my first 8800 card was the best money I have spent in some time when it comes to improving video quality, the improvement over previous cards was dramatic on my 57” and 70” 1080 displays. These days 8800 or 9800 cards are cheap.

You can probably get away with an inferior card, but you are running a risk of inferior performance with 1080i video, which is very demanding.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Owen

[Mr.Bitey]

Owen - did you ever try a 8500 or 8600 ?

Cheers,

Bitey

[Redav]

Owen - did you ever try a 8500 or 8600 ?

I'd like to know too or if someone uses one. I have a 8600GTS. I'd picked it up for HTPC sorta stuff (h.264 decoding) but it hasn't quite got there yet. I have noticed that 1080 videos don't play too well but whilst I think that's partly due to the oldschool P4-3gig CPU, I'm positive the decode pipeline isn't being used. I'm using XP. Any insights?

[Owen]

Owen - did you ever try a 8500 or 8600 ?

Cheers,

Bitey

No I have not. A fast 8600 is probably ok, but I would not trust an 8500 or on board solution. Much better to have too much power then not enough.

An 8800 is so cheap why take the risk?

A decent CPU is required as well but Vista is not. I don’t use Vista for anything, hate it.

Vista is to smart for its own good, its always off doing something I did not ask it to do and do not want it doing, bloody pain in the arse OS.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Owen

[drsmith]

I'd like to know too or if someone uses one. I have a 8600GTS. I'd picked it up for HTPC sorta stuff (h.264 decoding) but it hasn't quite got there yet. I have noticed that 1080 videos don't play too well but whilst I think that's partly due to the oldschool P4-3gig CPU, I'm positive the decode pipeline isn't being used. I'm using XP. Any insights?

The 8600GTS offers hardware acceleration for VC1 and AVC HD video content (HD-DVD and Blu-ray). HA for VC1 however is only partial in terms of CPU offload to GPU. Playback if faultless with no loss of resolution. If memory serves me correct the 8800 series cards offered no processing offset from CPU to GPU so in this respect the 8600GTS is a better choice for a HTPC.

The 8600GTS also deinterlaces 1080i to full HD-HQV benchmark standards in PowerDVD 7.3 (I have not tried PDVD 8) and Arcsoft Total Media Theatre (v126) when played from within in a Blu-ray container. Video playback functionality has improved with the later Nvidia driver versions. I currently use Nvidia forceware 178.24.

With 1080p h.264 decoding I found my Pentium-D could not handle that even with CoreAVC but it too is an old processor. There was no HA with this however as of several months ago when I last looked at it. With HA the Pentium D CPU is sufficient for HA blu-ray and 1080i but I don't know about a p4-3gig.

I use Vista but I turn off things like automatic updates. Arcsoft TMT also installs Arcsoft Connect as part of the program which runs every 10 seconds and can cause video playback issues. I disable that as well.

Edited November 20, 2008 by drsmith

[Owen]

If you have a decent CPU you don’t need hardware acceleration, Mpeg2 decoding is much better in software.

The Series II 8800 is the same hardware as a 9800, it supports hardware decoding of H.264 for those who feel the need to use it. I don’t, mainly because I don’t want to use Power DVD or Arcsoft.

A 9800 can be had for less then $200, why f*#k about with anything less unless you are cash strapped? The 8500 and 8600 cards are obsolete.

[drsmith]

Owen,

Have you viewed the HD-HQV blu-ray benchmarks with either PDVD or Arcsoft TMT ?

While neither of us have viewed output from the other card I suspect video processing results are the same but the 8600GTS has the advantage of offloading some processing from the CPU for Blu-ray and HD-DVD.

What evidence is there that even the 9800 series offers any advantage over the 8600GTS for video processing ?

I might upgrade myself if there's something to be gained.

Edited November 20, 2008 by drsmith

[Owen]

I don’t have the HQV benchmark disk, but I have some real world toucher test video which clearly shows and shortcoming in 1080i deinterlacing. I also have a 1080i/p video camera.

I’ll say this again since you missed it the first time. The series II 8800 is the same hardware as the 9800, its newer then the 8500-8600 cards and offloads HD DVD and BluRay processing if required, however I deliberately disable hardware processing because I see no advantage in using it. I have more then enough CPU power to do the job in software and don’t want to use PowerDVD due to lack of VMR9 support.

For Mpeg2 hardware decoding it too soft compared to FFDShows software decoding and FFDShow can hand off deinterlacing to hardware making PowerDVD redundant.

8500 and 8600 cards are in run out and replaced by 9 series cards. The 8600GTS should be fine and I doubt there is any point in replacing it. However anyone buying a card today can get a 9800 for cheap. Better to have much more power then you need to make certain you don’t get any problems ever.

[Mr.Bitey]

Owen,

Hope you dont mind some questions

What version of ffdshow are you using, that lets you offload the deinterlacing to HW?

Also i'd be interested in the specs of your current machine for s/w 1080i playback?

And almost finally - what s/w decoder are you using for bluray material?

And finally - what's your current ffdshow config?

Cheers,

Bitey

[drsmith]

The 8600GTS should be fine and I doubt there is any point in replacing it.

This is the point I was trying to articulate for someone that all ready has this card.

If however I was starting from scratch I would be looking at a newer GPU as per your comments.

Edited November 21, 2008 by drsmith

[Owen]

What version of ffdshow are you using, that lets you offload the deinterlacing to HW?

I am using FFDShow version 2019 from 22/June 08.

The Mpeg2 decoder selected in “Codecs” is Libavcodec.

To get hardware deinterlacing go to the “Output” menu and DE select all output colour formats except NV12, this will force all output to NV12 only.

For true interlaced 1080i from a video camera tick the “Set interlaced flag in output media type” box and set to BOB. For Film source set to Weave.

Do not enable deinterlacing in FFDShow, software deinterlacing is very ordinary.

Also do not scale video that needs deinterlacing, scaling MUST be done after deinterlacing so let the video hardware do it as a last step.

Also i'd be interested in the specs of your current machine for s/w 1080i playback?

Same Intel 6800 I have been using for a year or more. It’s overkill for decoding 1080 Mpeg2 which works fine on my old single core P4 3.5Gig box, and even it is not struggling.

And almost finally - what s/w decoder are you using for bluray material?

CoreAVC for H.264 content. Stuff that refuses to play in Media Player Classic or KM Player I play in PowerDVD. Hopefully that wont be needed for much longer as the demuxing gets sorted out.

And finally - what's your current ffdshow config?

FFDShow is just a decoder for Mpeg2 1080, I don’t use any filters, although I could.

I almost never play normal DVD’s, and SD content that is true 576i must be treated like video sourced 1080i, hardware deinterlacing only. FFDShows filters can only be applied to film sourced (progressive) DVD’s.

[Mr.Bitey]

Thanks Owen

Cheers,

Bitey

[Redav]

Yeah, thats too guys

[MickB......]

Any of the options mentioned would work.

You should look to getting a new MB, CPU and Video card. Intel has just released the Core i7 CPU's. That means the older Core 2 Duo CPU's will drop in price. Look for a newer generation video card with a HDMI output. I'm running twin 9600 GT's in SLi with a Q9450 CPU and EVGA 750i MB. It's a bit of overkill but it works well. Cooling will be your enemy if not handled effectively.