Dvdo Picture Quality

[sol381]

wasnt sure where to post this so i thought here was the most appropriate.

i just got delivery of a dvdo edge.. i wanted to use it as a hub for my topfield and pana blurray player and also to upscale and improve pic quality.

well having played with settings for quite a while i still cant get a picture that is better than the original.. it almost seems worse.. any text on the screen is blurry or fuzzy and when they have that scrolling news bar at the bottom like on sunrise it seems to hope across the screen instead of slide. i tried it on my dvd player and objects just seems less defined adn the edges instead of being enhanced and rough. hd tv seems ok but sd is very average.

i have tried it with 1080p 24,50 and 60 but no difference.i tried adjusting teh detail enhancement, edge enhancement and mosquito noise reduction both up and down but doesnt seem to help.. im kind of running out of ideas.

i had some doubts as to whether it would improve pq but didnt think it would make it worse.. if i cant get any improvement it`ll be getting dumped on ebay.

I have a 58" full hd samsung so it can accomodate all settings.

any help would be appreciated.

also i was hoping to use the remote as a universal remote which is fine for most of my components but i have a topfield and in their list of compatible aux-pvr there is no topppy.. madness

Edited November 18, 2008 by sol381

[JPP]

Hi,

I think your problems might be due to the fact that the Edge sees the EID of the Samsung as other than optimally.

I.e. it doesn't send its signal at your display's native resolution (leading to lack of sharpness) and frame rate (leading to the judder you're seeing on the crawleys).

Have you been following the AVS Forum thread on the Edge?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1051246

Lots of info here. The Edge (unlike the VP50) unfortunatley does not allow you set set the output parameters manually - it takes its cues from the TV's EID. That sounds like the problem you're having.

Hope this has been of some help.

[sol381]

thx for the response jpp.. if what you are saying is true then what is the use of this thing. its basiclaly a brick...all the claims they make abotu what it is capable of dont seem tobe accurate. ill keep trying to tweak it but looks like it willbe up for sale before long..

it just seems more and more to be an expensive a/v hub.

i dont suppose there is a way to shut off the tvs eid. seems strange tho because my bd player sends its image as 1080p 24 and its superb

Edited November 18, 2008 by sol381

[JPP]

thx for the response jpp.. if what you are saying is true then what is the use of this thing. its basiclaly a brick...all the claims they make abotu what it is capable of dont seem tobe accurate. ill keep trying to tweak it but looks like it willbe up for sale before long..

it just seems more and more to be an expensive a/v hub.

i dont suppose there is a way to shut off the tvs eid. sseems starnge tho because my bd player sends its image as 1080p 24 and its superb

I would just hang in there for a little while longer before selling it off. DVDO really do make very good VPs. Having said that, you already have a new generation display, so the differences between its internal scaling/de-interlacing circuitry and that of the Edge may not be as great as that of earlier generation TVs.

But, if you read the thread I mentioned, there's a lot of call to have the ability to set the output independantly from the EID. DVDO could well introduce it with the next FW upgrade.

[sol381]

yeah thx mate... im sure they do make quality equipment and i feel its just a setting or fw upgrade needed to remedy the problem

[djOS]

Sol can you please keep us posted on how updates go with the edge - Im thinking about getting one to solve some HDMI stability issues I have with my BH200 & Media Center largely caused by my Pio Plasma having incomplete EDID data.

[sol381]

yeah no problem djos.. im sure it will work out.. as an a/v hub its superb. havent tried it on my bd player yet as my hdmi cable was too short to reach so ill pick a new one up soon and try it out.

Sol can you please keep us posted on how updates go with the edge - Im thinking about getting one to solve some HDMI stability issues I have with my BH200 & Media Center largely caused by my Pio Plasma having incomplete EDID data.

[djOS]

Cheers, much appreciated.

[sol381]

there is an info button on the remote which lets you see what settings are coming in and out of the edge. one of the settings was Prep which i find out is their

PReP™, Progressive ReProcessing. Anchor Bay's Progressive ReProcessing (PReP™) is the video processing industry's first processing method that significantly improves progressive video signals and removes artifacts caused by inferior interlaced-to-progressive conversion.

it showed that it was off.. there is no button to turn it on as i assumed it was built in and always on.. anyway i emailed dvdo about the problem and am waiting on a reply.

maybe this will make a difference.. will keep you posted.

Edited November 18, 2008 by sol381

[cummo]

Prep is probably only active if the Edge is receiving a deinterlaced signal (576p, 720p & 1080p)

For 576i and 1080i prep is not required.

When you press the info button on the remote, what input/output resolution/frame rates is it showing?

[sol381]

just got the simpsons on... 576i 50hz in 1080p 60hz out... looks very average even for sd.. and prep is off

Prep is probably only active if the Edge is receiving a deinterlaced signal (576p, 720p & 1080p)

For 576i and 1080i prep is not required.

When you press the info button on the remote, what input/output resolution/frame rates is it showing?

[cummo]

I just checked my vp50 Pro and prep in greyed out when the unit is sent a 576i signal.

As JPP posted, the judder will be caused by the Edge sending your panel a 60hz signal.

Your panel needs to receive its native resolution to overcome the extra processing that is happening with those settings.

[sol381]

i have the output on the edge set to auto so youre saying i should set it to 1080p 50hz

I just checked my vp50 Pro and prep in greyed out when the unit is sent a 576i signal.

As JPP posted, the judder will be caused by the Edge sending your panel a 60hz signal.

Your panel needs to receive its native resolution to overcome the extra processing that is happening with those settings.

[cummo]

If your panel is a 1080p display that normally has no judder, then that is the setting to use.

Set it to 1080p 50hz output and confirm the output via the remote info button.

[djOS]

i have the output on the edge set to auto so youre saying i should set it to 1080p 50hz

From what I read over at AVS, the edge on "auto" uses the "preferred" mode as listed in EDID and for most displays that is @60hz even for aussie models.

Edited November 18, 2008 by djOS

[sol381]

bloody hell. talk about confusing.. i always thought aussie tv was 50hz... auto does send it thru at 60. i guess i need to let my eyes be the judge..

hd tv looks pretty good tho.. sd is average.

From what I read over at AVS, the edge on "auto" uses the "preferred" mode as listed in EDID and for most displays that is @60hz even for aussie models.

[dyates69]

PReP is only for a progressive 480p or 576p signal. It does not work on 1080p as it could mess with a 1080p native source.

You need to manually select the output frequency until a later public firmware is released. Always match your output Hz with the input Hz where possible to avoid judder. This is only a temporary issue (not really an issue, it's by design), and will be addressed with a firmware update.

If you set it to the correct output frequency and match the native res of your display (see if your display has a dot for dot or pc compatible mode) then your SD images should look basically as good as they can. The SD output from my devices look great through my Edge. If you suspect bad scaling from the edge you could also try outputting a 576p signal, so the Edge is just deinterlacing and not scaling as well.

[JPP]

If you set it to the correct output frequency and match the native res of your display (see if your display has a dot for dot or pc compatible mode) then your SD images should look basically as good as they can.

This is VERY important. Just because your display accepts 1080p (and even though it has a resolution of 1080 x 1920 pixels), this does not always mean that is does not scale the input signal. Usually it DOES - to give you some overscan to eliminate some of the raw edges of the picture. Use the Edge's ovescan feature to do this. Once you have introduced the scaling engine of the display/TV, you've lost most of what a VP can do for you in terms of improvements in PQ.

Edited November 18, 2008 by JPP

[djOS]

bloody hell. talk about confusing.. i always thought aussie tv was 50hz... auto does send it thru at 60. i guess i need to let my eyes be the judge..

hd tv looks pretty good tho.. sd is average.

It's the current DVDO implementation and the Europeans have been pretty critical of the lack of Refresh rate matching - I suspect DVDO will fix this but im not buying one until It is smart enuf to pick the correct refresh rate for the content being supplied.

Aussies TV's support 50hz but the issue is they are world models with DVB-T tuners and minor software mods for Australia - the EDID data will always specify a preferred mode eg 1080p@60hz and this is what the EDGE uses when set to Auto (most CE devices ignore this info as it is more relevant to PC monitors).

Edited November 18, 2008 by djOS

[sol381]

just got a reply back from dvdo .

Thank you for contacting us. PRep is not a feature you can turn on manually. If it is on then the EDGE software has determined that a particular set of input characteristics might warrant it. The EDGE software decides when to turn PReP on or off.

me thinks i have more tweaking to do then.

[cummo]

PReP is only for a progressive 480p or 576p signal. It does not work on 1080p as it could mess with a 1080p native source.

On the vp50 Pro, prep is available on all progressive signals including 1080p.

1080p input doesn't necessarily have to be from a native source. Equipment like the Panasonic HD recorders upscale to 1080p, although I cannot think of a good reason to use prep on anything other than a 576p signal.

[dyates69]

On the vp50 Pro, prep is available on all progressive signals including 1080p.

1080p input doesn't necessarily have to be from a native source. Equipment like the Panasonic HD recorders upscale to 1080p, although I cannot think of a good reason to use prep on anything other than a 576p signal.

Yes but on the 50 it's switchable, on the Edge it's not, hence why it's not available on a 1080p signal.

Also, PReP is not useful for the purpose you mentioned, as it can't properly re-interlace a scaled signal. Once scaling has been applied (which is done post de-interlacing) then it's dealing with an unknown quantity.

The only useful purpose I can think of for 1080p PReP is for incorrectly de-interlaced 1080i video source material. For this reason it's also not available on 720p material, as there's no common consumer 720i format.

Edited November 20, 2008 by dyates69