Trofius Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 Hi all just wondering if there is any links or info comparing teh deifferences or which BD player has the best SD DVD upscaling, as we have >400 sd dvds and really dont want to go there again. So in the $1500-2K bracket, most of which are not released yet., ie Denon, Pioneer, and sony If i feel the extra cost is worth it. Really thinking maybe putting the extra $1500 towards a quality reciever will be a better investment, and forgoing all the analogue outputs which make these top end players cost the considerable extra, and run it all by HDMI bitstreamed to a receiver that can do all the decoding. Unless ofcourse there is a sensational improvement in PQ with these players. But probably more targeted at around the $5-600 mark, ie the pana bd35, and s550, Can anybody comment on how they perform as compared to the XE1, as thats what I have as a referrence point.
figjam Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 Better to keep the XE1 Sounds like good advice, but if you were to go the new receiver path, I would recommend the Onkyo 875 or 876. These units have the same Reon HQV upscaler as the XE1.
Mjr69 Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 I have done an upscaling test between my Denon 3910, XE1 and the BH 200 using the same scene on 2 identical discs and the same HDMI cables, receiver etc... As it is subjective and impossible to memorise I set it up to compare "instantly" A to B, B to C and C to A... And the winner is (drum roll) XE1 followed closely by the BH200 and then easily last the 3910 (which was a $2000RRP player when first issued). The XE1 seemed to have more depth and contrast, the BH200 wasn't far behind - a very nice picture but it didn't seem to pop like the Toshiba. However the Denon seemed a little milky by comparison. Ironically the Denon is the only one to have been calibrated at the shop when the new IC chip was put in to meet BTB. So what I am saying is unless you have a component space shortage I'd keep the XE1 for your SD upscaling and choose the best BR player based on your needs/features as I doubt any other player will beat it by a great margin. Use the price difference to add to your library?
kiwimeat Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 I went with a Panasonic BD-35 for BD playback, and a DVDO Edge for video switching and processing. All up it is still cheaper than the top of the range players from Pioneer, Sony & Denon or Marantz (if the latter two ever make it here). I've not finished hooking it all up but plan to do a comparison between the BD-35, Oppo 980-H and HD-XE1 via the Edge to see which is best. I suspect using the 980-H to output 576i and let the Edge do the rest before passing to my 1366x768 PDP will be best. The advantage with the Edge is that it separate to the actual players so updating any of those doesn't result in any lost video processing ability.
cwt Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 Really thinking maybe putting the extra $1500 towards a quality reciever will be a better investment, and forgoing all the analogue outputs which make these top end players cost the considerable extra, and run it all by HDMI bitstreamed to a receiver that can do all the decoding. Unless ofcourse there is a sensational improvement in PQ with these players.But probably more targeted at around the $5-600 mark, ie the pana bd35, and s550, If you decide on the better avr route trofius ; beside the onkyo's figjam mentions ;maybe the new yam rxv 3900 is on the same level as it has the abt 2010 chip ; which combines the 102 deinterlacing with the 1010 scaling chip ; so is oppo quality depending on implementation Like the dvdo edge it also features PREP ;so it can reinterlace poorly deinterlaced sd from any blu player ;before proper deinterlacing and scaling . As for a blu player to match a good reon or abt avr ; the new pio 51/71 are the only cheaper models that have auto source direct ;so you dont have to adjust a menu everytime ;especially good for 1080i/30 concert blurays that need deinterlacing My thinking too about the wasted resources on better analog output ; no jitter on a hdmi bitstream and better bass management. The new sony 5000es I noticed [if using the analog outs] only has 1 crossover freq setting
ekkieTHUMP Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 Just a quick thought but for around the $1500 mark you could get a Yamaha 663 an Oppo 980 and a Panasonic BD 35.The advantage the Oppo has for DVD playback is smaller more compact than the XE1,great upscaling that will beat any BD player for sd,lightning fast bootup,plays files from a HDD and last but not least looks sexier than Kate Beckinsale in a black latex cat suit.
jutta Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 Kate Beckinsale in a black latex cat suit. How much would that cost?????? Although I don't think she'll fit in my cabinet
Mjr69 Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 How much would that cost?????? Although I don't think she'll fit in my cabinet I'd give it a damn hard try!
Trofius Posted November 16, 2008 Author Posted November 16, 2008 (edited) I'd give it a damn hard try! If you guys are planning on putting a quality bit of kit like that in your cabinet...we have lost all hope for you.... I would plan on leaving it out so it can get dirty and used and have finger prints ALL over it... But back on topic, although that is a very easy distraction.... Thanks all for the feed back, I did plan on keeping the XE1 for some time yet, as I am quite happy with the performance of it and i have ~80 HD titles.. But would consider replacing it down the track, IF i could thin out the number of componants, ie a BD player that upscaled as nice. I also have a NAD 542 cdp, so haveing seperates is no big deal really, if it gets to much i will get another rack, The Sony however will easily fit in a space that is left, a new receiver will have no chance they are all way bigger than the old pioneer ( which just fits.) I did plan to have all the source items in the entertainment unit and then put all the amps and, an AVR in a seperate rack to the side of the room. I might wait until i have read a few more comparisons reveiws. I have read a bit about the pana, pio, and sony players, and they all seem to have good and bad characters, with the sony being better, was actually pretty keen to get the sony before christmas but, may wait till new year now. and seewhat teh new player have to offer in regard to picture quality.. It will probably be an AVR and BD purchase, so at the time will get the items that compliment each other best. ~ a $2500 purchase, was all keen to go all kuro until i started to read around. Edited November 16, 2008 by trofius
achjimmy Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 I have done an upscaling test between my Denon 3910, XE1 and the BH 200 using the same scene on 2 identical discs and the same HDMI cables, receiver etc... As it is subjective and impossible to memorise I set it up to compare "instantly" A to B, B to C and C to A... And the winner is (drum roll) XE1 followed closely by the BH200 and then easily last the 3910 (which was a $2000RRP player when first issued). The XE1 seemed to have more depth and contrast, the BH200 wasn't far behind - a very nice picture but it didn't seem to pop like the Toshiba. However the Denon seemed a little milky by comparison. Ironically the Denon is the only one to have been calibrated at the shop when the new IC chip was put in to meet BTB. So what I am saying is unless you have a component space shortage I'd keep the XE1 for your SD upscaling and choose the best BR player based on your needs/features as I doubt any other player will beat it by a great margin. Use the price difference to add to your library? between the Xe1 and Bh200 i came up with the BH200 ahead on sharpness and DVD upscaling/playback and the XE1 on contrast, there was just something about the XE1 playback on HD and my prefrence was for the BH200, sound qual was with the BH200 particulary for a non HD AVR where the BH 200 re-encodes everything to DTS. Overall IMHO i have the BH200 1st followed by the Xe1.
betty boop Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 hi trofi, I beleive based on the tests going on overseas eg by joerod in the sony 5000es thread. for dvd, the list would look like denon 3800 (which we dont and likely wont get here, and if it does it will likely be $4k based on previous denon pricing ! ) followed closely by sony s5000es (in limited number and not sure if the current price of $2295 will continue after this initial batch coming in the country) and then all the rest, I'd put the pios up there given my experience wiht the lx70a, though I'm not sure if theres really much between them. I was rather suprised myself that when comparing my pio lx70a vs the oppo 983 there was really nothing much in it. so fair to say there are some BD plaeyrs out there that do a decent job of dvd... if you can wait ofcourse I think that would be the go. BD players only seem to drop in price and improve in quality with every subsequent release so if looking a year down the track you'll find more variety, cheaper and better I'm thinking. as far as avrs theres some nice stuff to choose from. havent you got an amp already, in that case perhaps worth just looking at pre's theres the nad 175 thats likely to get its hd audio upgrade soon. would be a nice match with the 542 and nad multichannel power amp by the way, along the nad line there is a nad BD on way too, but no ideas on price, and no ideas whether any good with dvd. also it is apparently a badge engineered product anyways along with a few other funai clones
Trofius Posted November 16, 2008 Author Posted November 16, 2008 As allways Al you have given me more to think about! I think the purchase will be before february, as after march all cash will be tightly controlled ( have our first bub due ~ march / april) so its get in now or miss out for ages deal!
momaw Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 Sounds like good advice, but if you were to go the new receiver path, I would recommend the Onkyo 875 or 876. These units have the same Reon HQV upscaler as the XE1. Problem is, same processor doesn't mean same quality upscaling. For example, the Yamaha's have the Anchor Bay VRS processors (same processor as the DVDO scalers) but because they only implement part of the scaler (as do the onkyo's) it means that you aren't getting a proper job done and the results are very obviously different.
momaw Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 for dvd, the list would look likedenon 3800 (which we dont and likely wont get here, and if it does it will likely be $4k based on previous denon pricing ! ) You sure about that Al? LAst I heard it was basically the same for DVD upscaling as the panny's
betty boop Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 You sure about that Al? LAst I heard it was basically the same for DVD upscaling as the panny's thats just the FUD some would like us believe mo. the denon has "Teranex Realta HQV processing" for dvd which panny most defintely doesnt have. Drop joerod a line over on avs he owns the panny bd35, the pio 51 , denon 3800 and the sony5000es and done extensive comparisons including on dvd with all these and posted about in the 5000es thread here.. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1082744
momaw Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 thats just the FUD some would like us believe mo. the denon has "Teranex Realta HQV processing" for dvd which panny most defintely doesnt have. Drop joerod a line over on avs he owns the panny bd35, the pio 51 , denon 3800 and the sony5000es and done extensive comparisons including on dvd with all these and posted about in the 5000es thread here..http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1082744 Thanks Al.
Mjr69 Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 between the Xe1 and Bh200 i came up with the BH200 ahead on sharpness and DVD upscaling/playback and the XE1 on contrast, there was just something about the XE1 playback on HD and my prefrence was for the BH200, sound qual was with the BH200 particulary for a non HD AVR where the BH 200 re-encodes everything to DTS. Overall IMHO i have the BH200 1st followed by the Xe1. Interesting - I was using a piece of footage from SWII where the edges of some of the CGI was clearly jagged in the Denon, more pleasing / tad softer via the BH200 and the edges more defined by the XE1. I am not doubting your findings - it may be the different players or if you use your amp as a video switch? dunno... It was verified on my system by me and 2 others so it wasn't some Jedi/psychological mind trick . I didn't look at audio because my XE1 is connected via analogue and the LG is via optical... I was actually looking whether I could sell my XE1 and let the LG do HD DVD, BR and sd dvd.. and free up space for a power amp and upgrade to separates - rather than a receiver - so I wanted to do it "scientifically"
laurie Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 So when Oppo brings out their BD player next year the party is over for the rest! cheers laurie
cwt Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 You sure about that Al? LAst I heard it was basically the same for DVD upscaling as the panny's Youve got in mind the denon 2500 Mo ; crap uniphier from the bd30
achjimmy Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 Interesting - I was using a piece of footage from SWII where the edges of some of the CGI was clearly jagged in the Denon, more pleasing / tad softer via the BH200 and the edges more defined by the XE1. I am not doubting your findings - it may be the different players or if you use your amp as a video switch? dunno... It was verified on my system by me and 2 others so it wasn't some Jedi/psychological mind trick . I didn't look at audio because my XE1 is connected via analogue and the LG is via optical... I was actually looking whether I could sell my XE1 and let the LG do HD DVD, BR and sd dvd.. and free up space for a power amp and upgrade to separates - rather than a receiver - so I wanted to do it "scientifically" interesting, hooked both directly to the Pio 508XDA and used 1080p24. cant rememeber all the discs i used but it was an array. On top of the faster loading better gui I am pretty happy with the BH200, Seems there is an even split in opinion here. But all seem to agree there is FA in it note it is a BH200 not an "cough, cough" Lgee. If i could change one thing it would be that logo badge on the front
kiwimeat Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 (edited) So when Oppo brings out their BD player next year the party is over for the rest!cheers laurie I don't agree on how would this be the case? For a start Oppo have confirmed that BD playback will be region locked - which is a big issue for the majority. Second, Oppo aren't developing their own BD chipset so their BD performance will be on a par with other BD good players (which are now ~$400). Thirdly, Oppo are a boutique manufacturer - they make a quality product in limited numbers primarily for the US market. Like many of their products, especially the 983, supply of the new BD player may well be an issue in Australia. In fact due to the region locking I can't see why it would be available to us except online (that is how I got my 980-H). Given the above it won't automatically equate to any form of defeat for other BD makers, especially here in Australia. For instance, it would be similar to the current situation where none of the current Denon or Marantz players will most likely ever be release due to SD region locking issues, and Oppo would face similar issues if they are BD region locked. In fact I would hazard to say that there is barely a market for high-end BD players in Australia, and much less of one that Meanwhile Sony, Panasonic et al will continue to dominate the BD player market with their current and future gen profile 2.0 players with an effective street price of close to $400 or less. Look as the owner of an Oppo I don't doubt that they will produce an excellent boutique BD player with excellent SD-DVD performance. If it wasn't region locked, and with it's SA-CD and DVD-A capabilities, I would be very keen for one as well. Edited November 16, 2008 by kiwimeat
ekkieTHUMP Posted November 17, 2008 Posted November 17, 2008 So when Oppo brings out their BD player next year the party is over for the rest!cheers laurie It's all a bit of a w@nk really.If you want to keep a big dvd collection then invest in a good dvd player.Nothing changes the fact that Blu Ray murders dvd though and Oppo will never compete with the big names in BD on price,at least not outside the US.I'm convinced that the big BD companies are not interested in building a dream machine that does everything.The only way to get one of them is to build your own media center.
hakka69 Posted November 17, 2008 Posted November 17, 2008 If you guys are planning on putting a quality bit of kit like that in your cabinet...we have lost all hope for you....I would plan on leaving it out so it can get dirty and used and have finger prints ALL over it... If I had that at my place there would be a lot more than fingerprints on it. Hakka.
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