Arry74 Posted November 8, 2008 Posted November 8, 2008 http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24620699-421,00.html Only a few streets from where I live, poor things.
kulfi Posted November 8, 2008 Posted November 8, 2008 Those kids were born only for the baby bonus and this didn't shock me one bit. I've already read news articles like this from NSW, QLD and VIC. Parents with 8 kids, the youngest of them being twins who died of sheer neglect, the woman who packed her child into a suitcase and tossed it into a lake etc. This is only going to get worse as the recession bites and these people become even more dependent on welfare. The baby bonus has become an alternate source of income for ultra-low income dole bludgers. Their kids (the ones that survive) will be the next generation of hardened street criminals. Have a look at the figures/news stories for a far-west Sydney suburb called Wilmot to see it in action. Cutting off the baby bonus to "rich" families with a combined income in excess of $150,000 per year is only going to aggravate the problem of low education and skills shortage. Those are the people who would pay to see their kids get a proper education and a little incentive wouldnt hurt. That has now been taken away, so let our universities be full of overseas students (who can't even speak English and are here only for a migrant visa) and let's bring on the crime. As an example - http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/parent...4956401417.html http://news.smh.com.au/national/family-see...81102-5g1c.html and all related stories to this.
mwd Posted November 9, 2008 Posted November 9, 2008 Kulfi you have the darkest and bleakest outlook on life in general. I love it. BUT most times you are right. The thing I hate the most is the politically correct bull that comes from the officials and news reporters. AND the bloody Judges. Don't any of these people have any realworld experience.
kulfi Posted November 9, 2008 Posted November 9, 2008 Kulfi you have the darkest and bleakest outlook on life in general. I love it.BUT most times you are right. The thing I hate the most is the politically correct bull that comes from the officials and news reporters. AND the bloody Judges. Don't any of these people have any realworld experience. I don't start the day looking all dark and bleak but it is worrying when you see things like this on the news. Political correctness is the new thing they use to cover up a lot of the crap going around. As for the judges, just look at the case of Marcus Einfeld to know what sort of real-world experience they have.
ozdoc Posted November 9, 2008 Posted November 9, 2008 Those kids were born only for the baby bonus.. That's a fairly harsh call to make at this this stage. Wait for the full story to come out. My guess would be other factors such as postpartum depression and social isolation are involved, - common issues being seen in mining related family relationships.
mwd Posted November 9, 2008 Posted November 9, 2008 Probably correct about baby bonus. The Mining Industry was paying megabucks even the Oil Industry was losing manpower to it. Oilfield Engineers earning more driving a forklift at a mining location. Social isolation that accounts for everybody out West I would think... Well there is a place called Perth then there is Perth and then Perth then South Africa then there is them honkeys out East in a different time zone.
kulfi Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 That's a fairly harsh call to make at this this stage. Wait for the full story to come out. My guess would be other factors such as postpartum depression and social isolation are involved, - common issues being seen in mining related family relationships. As if the government was going to tell us that these guys were dole bludgers and made babies for the bonus ! Post-partum depression doesn't lead to utter neglect of an innocent child, especially if you look upon it as your pride and joy. For these scum, it's just a $5000 cheque that has been cashed and is now crying for your attention when all you want to do is get sloshed and bang other men.
ozdoc Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 As if the government was going to tell us that these guys were dole bludgers and made babies for the bonus ! Post-partum depression doesn't lead to utter neglect of an innocent child, especially if you look upon it as your pride and joy. Ok. There's no point discussing it further as you clearly have no clue as to the nature of severe post partum depression. If you look upon a child with pride and joy, you don't have PPD. Believe me, I've seen these patients in locked units. It's not always something they can control. Obviously I'm not condoning what happened, just not judging until the facts are known.
kulfi Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Ok. There's no point discussing it further as you clearly have no clue as to the nature of severe post partum depression. If you look upon a child with pride and joy, you don't have PPD. Believe me, I've seen these patients in locked units. It's not always something they can control. Obviously I'm not condoning what happened, just not judging until the facts are known. Of course the mothers had severe PPD. How about the mum who packed her child into a suitcase and then dumped the bag into a pond ? Was she under PPD treatment ? Or the mum-and-dad who had 8 kids and the youngest (twins) died when they were a year old weighing less than newborns and in a home full of faeces ? There's a new disorder going around called BBD (Baby Bonus Disorder). It's sad but it's true and yes, it does happen in backyards close to ours.
mello yello Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Ok. There's no point discussing it further as you clearly have no clue I would have finished the sentence right there Ozdoc
drsmith Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Kulfi, I have always considered a lump sum buby bonus as poor policy but your comments about PPD suggest you know as much about that as I do.
kulfi Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Kulfi,I have always considered a lump sum buby bonus as poor policy but your comments about PPD suggest you know as much about that as I do. Don't get me wrong - I never said PPD isn't a real problem. It's just being used increasingly by dodgy lawyers to cover up the crimes committed after cashing in the bonus cheque. That's all I meant to say.
radioholic Posted November 11, 2008 Posted November 11, 2008 (edited) yes the baby bonus does incourage the wrong sort of people to have babies for the wrong reasons. but when it comes down to what is happening to these babies and why i think it maybe a case of "feral parents breeding when they shouldn't be" the end............... we can't keep blaming it on post partum depression every time i kid is killed by their parents or carers... Edited November 11, 2008 by radioholic
ajm1503559545 Posted November 11, 2008 Posted November 11, 2008 How many people who've commented so far have children and looked after them by themselves for an extended period? How many of the commenters are Mothers of small children? Just curious.
mcduck Posted November 11, 2008 Posted November 11, 2008 i was staying out of this but here we go baby, a **** of a baby she was, that's why she's the last from the day she was born, till she turned 3, a pain we couldn't put her down, she'd scream we all had to take turns with her, always had to be held 24 / 7 me, i couldn't even go to the bathroom if no one else was home slept in our bed, woke every one to two hours i couldn't take it no support from relatives, at breaking point so often i used to sit with her looking at the wall and thinking ' no one would blame me ' even Hubby, when i was sick, he went to work, had to ask eldest to stay home from school Hubby needed his sick days for someone else not going there but she's here, the joy??? of our lives, and i am so glad i hung in there but it was so close, so really really close
radioholic Posted November 11, 2008 Posted November 11, 2008 (edited) i was staying out of this but here we gobaby, a **** of a baby she was, that's why she's the last from the day she was born, till she turned 3, a pain we couldn't put her down, she'd scream we all had to take turns with her, always had to be held 24 / 7 me, i couldn't even go to the bathroom if no one else was home slept in our bed, woke every one to two hours i couldn't take it no support from relatives, at breaking point so often i used to sit with her looking at the wall and thinking ' no one would blame me ' even Hubby, when i was sick, he went to work, had to ask eldest to stay home from school Hubby needed his sick days for someone else not going there but she's here, the joy??? of our lives, and i am so glad i hung in there but it was so close, so really really close i've got kids...everyone gets tired, angry my first two were just like ducks........ but can you see the difference here.......... duck deep down would you have killed your child - thats a big fat NO YOU WOULDN"T( and i am not having a go at you) just trying to point out the difference there is lack of self control between us and someone who has killed their child......... Edited November 11, 2008 by radioholic
ajm1503559545 Posted November 12, 2008 Posted November 12, 2008 i've got kids...everyone gets tired, angry my first two were just like ducks........ but can you see the difference here..........duck deep down would you have killed your child - thats a big fat NO YOU WOULDN"T( and i am not having a go at you) just trying to point out the difference there is lack of self control between us and someone who has killed their child......... I think duck has summed it up pretty well actually. Not to condone what has happened but it has to be remembered that stress can do some awful things to a person. Some people can manage it and some just can't. What I cannot for the life of me see is how this tragedy has been linked to the baby bonus. Personally, I find the kulfi's comments pretty disgusting, there's no other way to describe it.
SDL Posted November 12, 2008 Posted November 12, 2008 Sometimes the difference between someone who does commit an act like this and someone who doesn't is less than some people think. It can be just a minor thing like a baby shutting up at the opportune time, or someone calling around to see you, the phone ringing, who knows. Yes there is an element within our community that have babies for the wrong reasons, but an awful lot who have them for the right reasons, and I'm not sure that being able to cope, or managing to get through by luck and what tiny bit of self control someone might have left, is any more or less among the less wealthy or not. Hell it's a big call to suggest people are having babies for the money then neglecting them - some extremely wealthy people have neglected children, killed their children, beaten their children. Kulfi I don't know whether in this particular case you are right or wrong (nor do you I suspect), but I do know you are not right in making such a sweeping generalisation.
radioholic Posted November 12, 2008 Posted November 12, 2008 I think duck has summed it up pretty well actually. Not to condone what has happened but it has to be remembered that stress can do some awful things to a person. Some people can manage it and some just can't. What I cannot for the life of me see is how this tragedy has been linked to the baby bonus. Personally, I find the kulfi's comments pretty disgusting, there's no other way to describe it. your right well put......... now the end ! is it?
kulfi Posted November 12, 2008 Posted November 12, 2008 Sometimes the difference between someone who does commit an act like this and someone who doesn't is less than some people think. It can be just a minor thing like a baby shutting up at the opportune time, or someone calling around to see you, the phone ringing, who knows. Yes there is an element within our community that have babies for the wrong reasons, but an awful lot who have them for the right reasons, and I'm not sure that being able to cope, or managing to get through by luck and what tiny bit of self control someone might have left, is any more or less among the less wealthy or not. Hell it's a big call to suggest people are having babies for the money then neglecting them - some extremely wealthy people have neglected children, killed their children, beaten their children. Kulfi I don't know whether in this particular case you are right or wrong (nor do you I suspect), but I do know you are not right in making such a sweeping generalisation. I'm not saying that rich people take care of their kids better than poor people. If you want to call me inconsiderate or just plain wrong, it's your call. This is my point of view - Can a man and woman who are both unemployed (or barely working), spending most of their time at home and living solely on welfare cheques manage to take care of 8 children, keep them well-fed, educated and teach them any values ? For them, the bonus is a great supplement to their low income and making babies comes easily if you're at home all day. Hardly anybody can even take care of 8 kids on a picnic, leave alone 24 hours a day. Even in the old days where large families were commonplace, the eldest of the kids was doing a part-time parent's role. Today's kids in that situation are wandering the streets with a can of spray paint in one hand, beer in the other and a knife in their pocket. You can bury your heads in the sand but for how long ?
SDL Posted November 12, 2008 Posted November 12, 2008 I'm not saying that rich people take care of their kids better than poor people. If you want to call me inconsiderate or just plain wrong, it's your call.This is my point of view - Can a man and woman who are both unemployed (or barely working), spending most of their time at home and living solely on welfare cheques manage to take care of 8 children, keep them well-fed, educated and teach them any values ? For them, the bonus is a great supplement to their low income and making babies comes easily if you're at home all day. Hardly anybody can even take care of 8 kids on a picnic, leave alone 24 hours a day. Even in the old days where large families were commonplace, the eldest of the kids was doing a part-time parent's role. Today's kids in that situation are wandering the streets with a can of spray paint in one hand, beer in the other and a knife in their pocket. You can bury your heads in the sand but for how long ? The unemployed couple popping out kids happened long before any baby bonus scheme. I knew some people 20 years ago that were doing this, so nothing has changed. In any event I might have misunderstood but believed in this case the guy was away at the mines. that wouldn't be unemployed couple then?
drsmith Posted November 12, 2008 Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) You can bury your heads in the sand but for how long ? Closer to the mark is points of view offered from different perspectives. No two person's life experiences are identical so their take on issues is going to differ to some extent. This does not necessarily define right or wrong but it is important to understand that smoeone else's perspective will be at least in part be different to your own. Any argument needs to be considered in this context. Edited November 12, 2008 by drsmith
ajm1503559545 Posted November 12, 2008 Posted November 12, 2008 The unemployed couple popping out kids happened long before any baby bonus scheme. I knew some people 20 years ago that were doing this, so nothing has changed. In any event I might have misunderstood but believed in this case the guy was away at the mines. that wouldn't be unemployed couple then? Precisely. So how (or why) anyone could link this awful tragedy with the baby bonus and speak of people as "scum" is beyond belief. Would be nice to see people pause and think before airing their ignorance and their prejudices sometimes.
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