Bitstream And Pcm Help

[Thornton Melon]

I recieved some info from the BLU Ray forum and I want to get some further help.

My Onkyo inputs D/Digital and DTS bitstream from my DVD player,and sounds good.

It also inputs 5.1 from a DVD player.

I assume any bitstream input will default to what my Onkyo is capable of decoding as it is doing with DVD's now.

Will the 5.1 input accept uncompressed PCM or lossless PCM.?

Will the PCM sound better than Lossy D/Digital and Lossy DTS. ?

I am using a very expensive directional coaxial digital cable to my amp,will I need a expensive set of leads for the 5.1 analogue connection to get good sound.

Have I got all the above info correct.?

Thanks for any advice forthcoming,and please correct me is I am wrong.

I think I will buy the Panasonic BD 30 Blu Ray as it seems to have all I need.

Cheers.

Thornton

[ajm1503559545]

I recieved some info from the BLU Ray forum and I want to get some further help.

My Onkyo inputs D/Digital and DTS bitstream from my DVD player,and sounds good.

It also inputs 5.1 from a DVD player.

I assume any bitstream input will default to what my Onkyo is capable of decoding as it is doing with DVD's now.

Will the 5.1 input accept uncompressed PCM or lossless PCM.?

Will the PCM sound better than Lossy D/Digital and Lossy DTS. ?

I am using a very expensive directional coaxial digital cable to my amp,will I need a expensive set of leads for the 5.1 analogue connection to get good sound.

Have I got all the above info correct.?

Thanks for any advice forthcoming,and please correct me is I am wrong.

I think I will buy the Panasonic BD 30 Blu Ray as it seems to have all I need.

Cheers.

Thornton

In a nutshell bistreaming means the player passes the audio to the AVR to decode while passing PCM means the player is doing the job. This applies to DVD and Blu-ray equally.

You seem to be on the righ track though. If you don't have an HDMI connection then the 5.1 analogue inputs are the way to go - assuming both the player and the AVR have these connections.

Whether lossless sounds better than lossy depends greatly on a number of factors. Ken Tripp liked to answer with a blanket "yes" which ignores a few obvious variables such as the skill of the compressionist, the equipment being used to listen to the soundtrack and the soundtrack being encoded. It should sound better but how much better really is impossible to gauge and will vary from one person and one setup to the next.

FWIW I have the BD30 as well. Very nice player - excellent build quality and, as others have said, the PQ and SQ from this player are really good.

[Guest]

I recieved some info from the BLU Ray forum and I want to get some further help.

My Onkyo inputs D/Digital and DTS bitstream from my DVD player,and sounds good.

It also inputs 5.1 from a DVD player.

I assume any bitstream input will default to what my Onkyo is capable of decoding as it is doing with DVD's now.

Will the 5.1 input accept uncompressed PCM or lossless PCM.?

Will the PCM sound better than Lossy D/Digital and Lossy DTS. ?

I am using a very expensive directional coaxial digital cable to my amp,will I need a expensive set of leads for the 5.1 analogue connection to get good sound.

Have I got all the above info correct.?

Thanks for any advice forthcoming,and please correct me is I am wrong.

I think I will buy the Panasonic BD 30 Blu Ray as it seems to have all I need.

Cheers.

Thornton

The 5.1 inputs will be analog and only accept the analog signal produced from the decoder/processor in your DVD/BR Player.

Virtually any decoded sound format (DD, DTS, DTS MA) will sound better than strait PCM.

If you BRay player has decoders (as opposed to passing the signal to the receiver)for the lossless formats you can use the player to act as the signal processor of those formats to then pass the signal to your amp via the 5.1 inputs (but again, I am pretty certain this will be analog signals at this point). Some receivers have the ability to take 7.1 signals (Yamaha RXV3800 for example) so the lossless decoder in the player makes more sense/use.

I don't believe in "very expensive" cables, especially directional ones .... plug it in back to front and see if you can see (edit: hear) a difference? Just good quality (ie not reject shop) will do the job over short (1-3 meter) distances.

Have a read of the thread on Blue Ray players before buying one - not all of them have lossless decoders and only pass through the signal, so if your amp can't decode it you cant experience it. Also some of them are limited in terms of the "version" of blueray (1.3 atm .... expected to be 2.0 soon). If I was going to buy now I'd seriously look at the Samsung 1500 .... but I am not sure I trust Samsung for reliability though.

Chops

Edited October 6, 2008 by Guest

[ajm1503559545]

Sorry to be a killjoy Chopsus but most of that is either plain wrong or plain nonsense.

I think you might want to read up on LPCM, bistreaming and Blu-ray profiles.

[Guest]

Sorry to be a killjoy Chopsus but most of that is either plain wrong or plain nonsense.

I think you might want to read up on LPCM, bistreaming and Blu-ray profiles.

How so when you say most?

That the 5.1 inputs he is talking about are analog?

That expensive directional cables are better?

That some BR players decode the lossless formats and some just pass through the bitstream?

That the blu ray profiles are still not finalised and some machine are not upgradeable?

or something else I have said? That's what I've derived form the threads on BR here, more than interested to be corrected and find out what I have wrong .... but I didn't think it was the entire contents of my reply.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Guest

[Shonky*]

How so?

Holes...

Virtually any decoded sound format (DD, DTS, DTS MA) will sound better than strait PCM.

You've said DD and DTS are better than PCM.

DD and DTS are compressed audio formats and hence lossy.

PCM is uncompressed and lossless. Excluding bit depth and sample rate, PCM is *always* better than DD and DTS by definition. At best DD and DTS can only sound as good as PCM assuming perfect compression which is impossible.

Some receivers have the ability to take 7.1 signals (Yamaha RXV3800 for example) so the lossless decoder in the player makes more sense/use.

The decoder in the player isn't any more "lossless" than the decoder in the receiver. Forgetting post processing decoding in either should be identical. The advantage of player decoding is it allows mixing of tracks for things like commentaries and menu sounds etc as I understand it. You make it sound like the decoder in the player is better because it's lossless. It's not.

I don't believe in "very expensive" cables, especially directional ones .... plug it in back to front and see if you can see (edit: hear) a difference? Just good quality (ie not reject shop) will do the job over short (1-3 meter) distances.

Totally agree there. Especially the directional part. Total bollocks.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Shonky*

[Guest]

Holes...

You've said DD and DTS are better than PCM.

DD and DTS are compressed audio formats and hence lossy.

PCM is uncompressed and lossless. Excluding bit depth and sample rate, PCM is *always* better than DD and DTS by definition. At best DD and DTS can only sound as good as PCM assuming perfect compression which is impossible.

The decoder in the player isn't any more "lossless" than the decoder in the receiver. Forgetting post processing decoding in either should be identical. The advantage of player decoding is it allows mixing of tracks for things like commentaries and menu sounds etc as I understand it. You make it sound like the decoder in the player is better because it's lossless. It's not.

Totally agree there. Especially the directional part. Total bollocks.

Oops <embarrased look> I always figured PCM was less than because it was raw .... now you have pointed that out I realise how silly my thinking was .... Now I see (said the blind man) .... but how come when the PCM light on my receiver is lit, it sounds worse than if it's one of the compression formats (DD DTS)?

I don't want to hyjack the OP's thread though - so feel free to tell me to go back to school first! LOL!

edit:p.s.: I just did a bit more reading, as AJM suggested, and realised there a bit more to it than I thought.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Guest

[MACCA350]

I recieved some info from the BLU Ray forum and I want to get some further help.

My Onkyo inputs D/Digital and DTS bitstream from my DVD player,and sounds good.

It also inputs 5.1 from a DVD player.

I assume any bitstream input will default to what my Onkyo is capable of decoding as it is doing with DVD's now.

Not necessarily. Firstly lets assume that you are using the SPDIF(Optical/Coax) connection. In this case you will need to select the DD/DTS track on the Blu-ray(some/all players will automatically play the DD track out the SPDIF output, not sure if this is regardless of track selected). If you select a DTS-HDMA track there is a lossy DTS track at it's core that you can get from the SPDIF output. If you select DD+/TrueHD the player should output the DD track through SPDIF. If you select PCM you should only get 2channel PCM through the SPDIF connection(it may output DD though, I'm not sure. But the point is that if you are using the SPDIF connection you can get DD, DTS or 2channel PCM, and every movie disc will have at least DD or DTS on the disc.

Will the 5.1 input accept uncompressed PCM or lossless PCM.?

6channel analogue inputs will accept PCM in analogue form

Will the PCM sound better than Lossy D/Digital and Lossy DTS. ?

Theoretically yes PCM is capable of higher quality since it is not a lossy format, practically it depends on a number of factors.

I am using a very expensive directional coaxial digital cable to my amp,will I need a expensive set of leads for the 5.1 analogue connection to get good sound.

Good quality doesn't need to be expensive

Have I got all the above info correct.?

Pretty much, yeah

Thanks for any advice forthcoming,and please correct me is I am wrong.

Goes without saying

I think I will buy the Panasonic BD 30 Blu Ray as it seems to have all I need.

The BD30 does not decode DD+/TrueHD/DTS-HD/DTS-HDMA so you will not be able to have their benefits from it's analogue outputs. Unless you have a receiver hooked up via HDMI capable of decoding these formats you can only play the PCM(over analogue or 2channel over SPDIF) and lossy DD/DTS(over analogue or SPDIF)

cheers

[Thornton Melon]

Not necessarily. Firstly lets assume that you are using the SPDIF(Optical/Coax) connection. In this case you will need to select the DD/DTS track on the Blu-ray(some/all players will automatically play the DD track out the SPDIF output, not sure if this is regardless of track selected). If you select a DTS-HDMA track there is a lossy DTS track at it's core that you can get from the SPDIF output. If you select DD+/TrueHD the player should output the DD track through SPDIF. If you select PCM you should only get 2channel PCM through the SPDIF connection(it may output DD though, I'm not sure. But the point is that if you are using the SPDIF connection you can get DD, DTS or 2channel PCM, and every movie disc will have at least DD or DTS on the disc.

6channel analogue inputs will accept PCM in analogue form

Theoretically yes PCM is capable of higher quality since it is not a lossy format, practically it depends on a number of factors.

Good quality doesn't need to be expensive

Pretty much, yeah

Goes without saying

The BD30 does not decode DD+/TrueHD/DTS-HD/DTS-HDMA so you will not be able to have their benefits from it's analogue outputs. Unless you have a receiver hooked up via HDMI capable of decoding these formats you can only play the PCM(over analogue or 2channel over SPDIF) and lossy DD/DTS(over analogue or SPDIF)

cheers

Thanks Macca,sounds like most of us need to upgrade our Receivers to HDMI switchable to take better advantage of the audio capabilities of the new Blu Ray revolution.

At least most new players will decode the better lossless audio formats.

Cheers.

Thornton

[ajm1503559545]

edit:p.s.: I just did a bit more reading, as AJM suggested, and realised there a bit more to it than I thought.

Sweet

I didn't mean to be quite to abrupt, I was trying to work and make the post and not getting far with either. To be honest, your post was a bit of a mix of stuff starting with PCM but also a bit of a mixup between BD profiles and (I think) HDMI specs. Also the info on decoders was a bit of a mixed bag but then so are the specs on the players and the decoders.

No offense intended, and apologies for the abruptness. Just a bit wide of the mark on a few comments but nothing that a little reading up couldn't fix .

[MACCA350]

Thanks Macca,sounds like most of us need to upgrade our Receivers to HDMI switchable to take better advantage of the audio capabilities of the new Blu Ray revolution.

HDMI switchable receivers are in the same boat, in that all they do is switch and don't accept any audio via HDMI.

There are a few different levels of receiver capability when it comes to HDMI, see here for more info

At least most new players will decode the better lossless audio formats.

Again not necessarily because they don't need to. Some(but not all) will decode DD+/TrueHD/DTS-HD/DTS-HDMA(or a combination). Some(but not all) will allow Bitstreaming of said formats. Some(but not all) will do neither. IIRC a blu-ray player only needs to decode DD/DTS/PCM. So it's really up to the purchaser to find the product that suits their needs.

Confused yet, and I didn't even mention Profiles(ie 1.0/1.1/2.0/3.0)

cheers

[Thornton Melon]

HDMI switchable receivers are in the same boat, in that all they do is switch and don't accept any audio via HDMI.

There are a few different levels of receiver capability when it comes to HDMI, see here for more info

Again not necessarily because they don't need to. Some(but not all) will decode DD+/TrueHD/DTS-HD/DTS-HDMA(or a combination). Some(but not all) will allow Bitstreaming of said formats. Some(but not all) will do neither. IIRC a blu-ray player only needs to decode DD/DTS/PCM. So it's really up to the purchaser to find the product that suits their needs.

Confused yet, and I didn't even mention Profiles(ie 1.0/1.1/2.0/3.0)

cheers

Well Macca,I have never owned any Receiver than an ONKYO,but might concider a DENON or a YAMAHA,so obviously a little research may be needed to make the right choice.

Thanks for the info.

It just gets harder,but is'nt that half the fun, if we wer'nt into sound and vision,what would we be doing.?

Cheers.

Thornton.

PS, any tips on a Receiver

[MACCA350]

Well Macca,I have never owned any Receiver than an ONKYO,but might concider a DENON or a YAMAHA,so obviously a little research may be needed to make the right choice.

Thanks for the info.

It just gets harder,

You're not wrong there,

but is'nt that half the fun, if we wer'nt into sound and vision,what would we be doing.?

Keeps me out of trouble............more or less

Cheers.

Thornton.

PS, any tips on a Receiver

I'm partial to Denon.........as far as AVR's go I have the 1603, 3805 and 3808. So have a guess what my tips would be

Did you have a read through the link I posted, it may help narrow down the choices.

My brother in-law just picked up the Rotel RSP-1069 Processor for a steal as he is running Rotel amps and just picked up a PS3

cheers

[Thornton Melon]

HDMI switchable receivers are in the same boat, in that all they do is switch and don't accept any audio via HDMI.

There are a few different levels of receiver capability when it comes to HDMI, see here for more info

Again not necessarily because they don't need to. Some(but not all) will decode DD+/TrueHD/DTS-HD/DTS-HDMA(or a combination). Some(but not all) will allow Bitstreaming of said formats. Some(but not all) will do neither. IIRC a blu-ray player only needs to decode DD/DTS/PCM. So it's really up to the purchaser to find the product that suits their needs.

Confused yet, and I didn't even mention Profiles(ie 1.0/1.1/2.0/3.0)

cheers

Having thought about the situation for a while, I think what I need is.

A Blu Ray player capable of sending video via HDMI to the HD or full HD panel.

The same player to send a lossless bitstream signal via optical or coaxial or HDMI cable to a reciever able to decode or utilize the already decoded signal.

if the Receiver can do all this via HDMI it is a bonus.

if the Receiver can accept both the lossless bitstream audio , and video signal via HDMI and send the video signal to the panel via HDMI it is a bigger bonus.

is this correct.?

Cheers .

Thornton

PS, my brain is hurting

[MACCA350]

Having thought about the situation for a while, I think what I need is.

A Blu Ray player capable of sending video via HDMI to the HD or full HD panel.

The same player to send a lossless bitstream signal via optical or coaxial or HDMI cable to a reciever able to decode or utilize the already decoded signal.

if the Receiver can do all this via HDMI it is a bonus.

if the Receiver can accept both the lossless bitstream audio , and video signal via HDMI and send the video signal to the panel via HDMI it is a bigger bonus.

is this correct.?

Cheers .

Thornton

PS, my brain is hurting

Well that narrows it down.............NOT

Maybe it might be easier if you let us know what your budget is for both receiver and player

cheers

[Guest]

Sweet

I didn't mean to be quite to abrupt, I was trying to work and make the post and not getting far with either. To be honest, your post was a bit of a mix of stuff starting with PCM but also a bit of a mixup between BD profiles and (I think) HDMI specs. Also the info on decoders was a bit of a mixed bag but then so are the specs on the players and the decoders.

No offense intended, and apologies for the abruptness. Just a bit wide of the mark on a few comments but nothing that a little reading up couldn't fix .

No you're right ... I was at work too and yes the numbers I was throwing around on the blue ray profiles "appeared" in my head from the HDMI specs .... but from what I understand many players are only 1.0 or 1.1 and profile 2.0 is on the way .... but that could be Sony PS3 hype.

I have always thought of PCM as "less than" and have only now started to rethink my thinking (so to speak) .... especially given these *new* terms lossy, lossless, DTS MA, etc ..... I bought a receiver that does it all, but need to get my head around it more if I am going to get the best out of it without doubling up on decoders in everything (a little like the OP).

Cheers

Chops

Edited October 6, 2008 by Guest

[MACCA350]

No you're right ... I was at work too and yes the numbers I was throwing around on the blue ray profiles "appeared" in my head from the HDMI specs .... but from what I understand many players are only 1.0 or 1.1 and profile 2.0 is on the way .... but that could be Sony PS3 hype.

There are actually 4 player profiles:

1.0 - no longer manufactured

1.1 - the new standard that all new machines must meet (includes PIP capability)

2.0 - adds internet features. There are already a number of 2.0 machines currently available including the PS3

3.0 - audio only player. I'm not aware of any 3.0 specific players on the market, but I believe discs authored as such will be playable on any BD machine(might be wrong though

I have always thought of PCM as "less than" and have only now started to rethink my thinking (so to speak) .... especially given these *new* terms lossy, lossless, DTS MA, etc ..... I bought a receiver that does it all, but need to get my head around it more if I am going to get the best out of it without doubling up on decoders in everything (a little like the OP).

No probs...........it is a bit of a minefield understanding it all

cheers

[cwt]

Having thought about the situation for a while, I think what I need is.

A Blu Ray player capable of sending video via HDMI to the HD or full HD panel.

The same player to send a lossless bitstream signal via optical or coaxial or HDMI cable to a reciever able to decode or utilize the already decoded signal.

if the Receiver can do all this via HDMI it is a bonus.

if the Receiver can accept both the lossless bitstream audio , and video signal via HDMI and send the video signal to the panel via HDMI it is a bigger bonus.

is this correct.?

Cheers .

Thornton

PS, my brain is hurting

Thornton ; there is only 2 ways of getting lossless sound ; either by analog or by hdmi [ any version 1.0/1/2/3]. Optical and coax will give you dts core and dd lossy as the maximum quality as I mentioned in the other thread .You will find [all other things being equal] that hdmi transmission of lossless is better than analog from a decoding player [if you keep the onkyo ??].

If you do upgrade to a new avr ;a chipped bd30 will save some money towards a new avr ; rather than spend extra on a player with full decoding A further wrinkle in all this is bd java profiles as any downloaded commentary /extra's has to be mixed as pcm in the player where the decoders must be.If you decode in the avr; you must downmix to lossy to get these extra's. Many still prefer to decode in the avr and can take or leave the extras.Also once you hook up to the web drm issues come up ; many are happy with java 1.1 ;1.2 mandates ethernet for downloads..

[Thornton Melon]

Thornton ; there is only 2 ways of getting lossless sound ; either by analog or by hdmi [ any version 1.0/1/2/3]. Optical and coax will give you dts core and dd lossy as the maximum quality as I mentioned in the other thread .You will find [all other things being equal] that hdmi transmission of lossless is better than analog from a decoding player [if you keep the onkyo ??].

If you do upgrade to a new avr ;a chipped bd30 will save some money towards a new avr ; rather than spend extra on a player with full decoding A further wrinkle in all this is bd java profiles as any downloaded commentary /extra's has to be mixed as pcm in the player where the decoders must be.If you decode in the avr; you must downmix to lossy to get these extra's. Many still prefer to decode in the avr and can take or leave the extras.Also once you hook up to the web drm issues come up ; many are happy with java 1.1 ;1.2 mandates ethernet for downloads..

All is clear now,when I get a player with 5.1 outs,I will connect with the AVR with both the analogue and digital inputs and try them both and see which I prefer.The worst I can get is what I already have, standard Dolby digital and DTS

Thanks for all your help.

When I buy my new receiver the fun will begin again.

Cheers

Thornton

[MACCA350]

All is clear now,when I get a player with 5.1 outs,I will connect with the AVR with both the analogue and digital inputs and try them both and see which I prefer.The worst I can get is what I already have, standard Dolby digital and DTS

Thanks for all your help.

When I buy my new receiver the fun will begin again.

Cheers

Thornton

That's how I did it. I used my Denon 3805 with both analogue and SPDIF connected and found I preferred using the SPDIF for DD and DTS as I could use the better bass management, room eq, 7.1 matrixing, etc in the 3805. IMHO the end result sounded better than the highres tracks over analog(using just the XE1 at the time)

Later I baught the Denon 3808 and PS3, I then picked up a BD30 and bitstreamed the highres tracks.

cheers

[Thornton Melon]

HDMI switchable receivers are in the same boat, in that all they do is switch and don't accept any audio via HDMI.

There are a few different levels of receiver capability when it comes to HDMI, see here for more info

Again not necessarily because they don't need to. Some(but not all) will decode DD+/TrueHD/DTS-HD/DTS-HDMA(or a combination). Some(but not all) will allow Bitstreaming of said formats. Some(but not all) will do neither. IIRC a blu-ray player only needs to decode DD/DTS/PCM. So it's really up to the purchaser to find the product that suits their needs.

Confused yet, and I didn't even mention Profiles(ie 1.0/1.1/2.0/3.0)

cheers

One more time fot the dummies,The Panasonic DMP-BD 30 has 5.1 analogue output,but will not carry uncompressed PCM to the AVR because there is no internal decoding.

Assuming this is correct,I need a different Blu Ray player to utilize this soundtrack feature on a Blu Ray DVD.

Sorry for the confusion but I want to get this right.

If so ,will the new model Panasonic player have this decoding onboard,or any other brand of player.

Cheers.

Thornton

[ajm1503559545]

Correct on the first and second questions. WRT to the new Panasonic, I have no idea but others might be able to help there.

[Guest]

One more time fot the dummies,The Panasonic DMP-BD 30 has 5.1 analogue output,but will not carry uncompressed PCM to the AVR because there is no internal decoding.

Assuming this is correct,I need a different Blu Ray player to utilize this soundtrack feature on a Blu Ray DVD.

Sorry for the confusion but I want to get this right.

If so ,will the new model Panasonic player have this decoding onboard,or any other brand of player.

Cheers.

Thornton

Ummmm at risk of compounding the confusion: I had thought the point of uncompressed PCM was that there is no decoding? ..... Also, given there are only 5.1 outputs, your not going to get any 6.1 or 7.1 signals (this is what I was getting at yesterday mentioning the RXV3800 as some of the RCA inputs can be remapped to PCM inputs for 7.1 ... AFAIK).

Duh .... just realised there has to be decoding for it to get to the analog outs. .... the 6.1/7.1 bit is still valid though?

If the player doesn't have the decoders you want, but can bitstream the signal to your receiver, and it has the decoder(s) you want to use all is fine .... so if the DMP-BD 30 bitstreams DTS MA for example and your amp can decode it you're happy ..... I guess, given your original post though, your receiver doesn't have the new decoders which is what started you in the first place.

Further ... a question to the others:

Is there any real point getting a player that can decode the new formats if you only have a 5.1 receiver/amp? (yes I don't know if 7.1 is a main feature of these new formats)

Apologies in advance if I still haven't worked it out right.

Chops

Edited October 7, 2008 by Guest

[Thornton Melon]

Ummmm at risk of compounding the confusion: I had thought the point of uncompressed PCM was that there is no decoding? ..... Also, given there are only 5.1 outputs, your not going to get any 6.1 or 7.1 signals (this is what I was getting at yesterday mentioning the RXV3800 as some of the RCA inputs can be remapped to PCM inputs for 7.1 ... AFAIK).

Duh .... just realised there has to be decoding for it to get to the analog outs. .... the 6.1/7.1 bit is still valid though?

If the player doesn't have the decoders you want, but can bitstream the signal to your receiver, and it has the decoder(s) you want to use all is fine .... so if the DMP-BD 30 bitstreams DTS MA for example and your amp can decode it you're happy ..... I guess, given your original post though, your receiver doesn't have the new decoders which is what started you in the first place.

Further ... a question to the others:

Is there any real point getting a player that can decode the new formats if you only have a 5.1 receiver/amp? (yes I don't know if 7.1 is a main feature of these new formats)

Apologies in advance if I still haven't worked it out right.

Chops

Yes Chops it can be a little confusing.

I am happy to listen to both lossy Dolby Digital and lossy DTS for now,as that is what I already have with my Onkyo 595,BUT I would also like to try the superior sound of uncompressed PCM,and compare both.

To do this a new Blu Ray player must be able to send the uncompressed analogue audio to the AVR 5.1 milti channel input.

So I need a player able to decode the PCM audio on the disk and have 5.1 analogue output.

Think I got it right

Cheers .

Thornton

[Guest]

Yes Chops it can be a little confusing.

I am happy to listen to both lossy Dolby Digital and lossy DTS for now,as that is what I already have with my Onkyo 595,BUT I would also like to try the superior sound of uncompressed PCM,and compare both.

To do this a new Blu Ray player must be able to send the uncompressed analogue audio to the AVR 5.1 milti channel input.

So I need a player able to decode the PCM audio on the disk and have 5.1 analogue output.

Think I got it right

Cheers .

Thornton

I am pretty sure your right ... what I am not sure of is if the new sound formats require 6.1 or 7.1 inputs or can they be downmixed to 5.1 analog inputs (ie your amp)? I'd be surprised if they can't be, but am not sure if you would be getting any great advantage over the lossy DD and DTS by the time the player decodes and downlmixes to 5.1.

I could still have it arse about though 8D